Opinions on Horse That Won’t Move Forward

[pnwprincess]

Hi All - Looking for some opinions to make sure I’m not missing anything…

My Background -
I worked for a bunch of big H/J barns on the East Coast for 15 years, about 10 years ago, and have been riding for almost 35 years. Stopped riding entirely, had a family, changed careers and moved to Washington. Last summer my husband wanted to learn to ride so we got back into it.

The horse I’m having problems with is a 9 year old thoroughbred purchased for my husband to learn on. Horse is pretty green but has a great mind and is super calm/gentle, way more woah than go, so I rolled the dice on him. Did decently well through the summer and then I forgot what a huge pain it is to have horses in the snow / winter and he sat more than he should’ve. I’ve been working on getting him back into work the last month or so. Started out okay, lots of walk - trot to get him fit again, but in the last week I’ve started to have a lot of problems with him planting his feet and refusing to go forward. This horse is already lazy, takes a lot of leg to keep forward, but this is new to just stop and refuse to move. I’ve done the GPs, been tossed on every terrible/unstarted horse in the barn, so I’m not a nervous rider, just feel so very rusty and second guess-y.

Where I’m at:

• first ruling out physical, I have the vet coming out Monday, he is totally sound, but definitely want to make sure there is nothing going on
• behavioral… lazy horse + winter off = wanting to continue the life of leisure, so I’m leaning here, but I feel like all of my tricks are failing me… I’ve done waiting him out, small circles, motivation on the ground all to no avail and all with a loose rein and lots of forward seat/leg

What am I missing?? Or am I just colossally impatient? I was looking at pics of my old career / life today and feel so down/stumped that this little grey TB is winning our game of wits lol (if there is nothing physical).

[OverandOnward]

This is a behavior that can be a result of kissing spine. A portable x-ray can pick it up.

Ulcers can also produce behavior of this kind. There are threads on COTH about treating possible ulcers, with or without a diagnosis, using OTC meds. There is no harm in trying it out and see if there is a change.

I think you are on the right track that if he was going well before this came up, if you’ve had training success with other horses, and if this is a change in this horse’s behavior, then physical is the track I would be on as well.

Good luck to you and this horse!

[Demerara_Stables]

I’ve got one that does this, only when walking away from his pasture/friends.

Lots of leg, stick if necessary, until he so much as takes one step forward then lots of kudos. This guy stood for ~10 minutes today until I told the owner to just yell/growl at him and give him a good boot. He finally stepped forward, she gave him lots of pets and praise and he walked away from the field no problem.

Patience and persistence.

[AAHunterGal]

If you already had Xrays done during the PPE, it’s always worth checking the suspensories when they get sticky like this. Sometimes adding some Vitamin E also helps get their get-up-and-go back.

If you haven’t done Xrays yet, then I would also do the back for KS. If he’s been sitting all winter, they could be affecting him much more than they were when he was in work.

Does he easily to belly lifts, or does he swish his tail/kick out when you ask for them?

[pnwprincess]

Thanks y’all for the reinforcement! No kissing spine (XR’d), no ulcers (scoped), dozens of other negative views on XR on PPE. I may actually be getting my butt handed to me by this lil dude. Appreciate the opinions, I am going to dig back in on patience. It’s very different to be working a dozen horses in your backyard with nobody to bounce ideas off of vs a full barn!

[dmveventer]

Pain is definitely my first thought. I would have the vet do a thorough lameness exam on Monday and see what they think. How long ago was he scoped for ulcers? I would also check Vitamin E/Se levels and test for Lyme, off the top of my head.

Are you working with a trainer, and does the horse do this with them? Being a re-rider is hard, a lot of the muscle memory you’re used to relying on just isn’t there anymore so things that used to happen automatically don’t always happen. It’s easy to feel like you’re doing everything right in your head while the physical reality is much different. If you picked this horse up straight off a ten year break you’re probably more than just a little rusty, and having knowledgeable eyes on the ground would be a huge help. It may also help to get some rides on a schoolmaster type so you can check your own progress and make sure you aren’t holding on to any bad habits in the saddle.

@pnwprincess

I was looking at pics of my old career / life today and feel so down/stumped that this little grey TB is winning our game of wits lol

I totally sympathize with this, I know the feeling, but this mentality is not going to help you at all. The horse isn’t playing a game and you’re the only one thinking about this as something to “win.” You’re not the same rider you were 10 years ago, and that’s totally fine. But you can’t try to ride as if you never left, you have to embrace where you are now and adjust your strategy to match. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of your frustration with yourself is seeping into your sessions with the horse at times and making things harder. Give yourself some grace, embrace the adult ammy/re-rider life, and don’t be afraid to call in a current pro for some backup.

[Lusoluv]

A horse that no longer wants to go forward IF it wasn’t an issue months ago, shouts “something physical” to me. Ulcers can develop quick so being scoped/PPEd last summer doesn’t mean much today. If you determine there isn’t a physical issue, maybe proper lungeing where you can send him forward no matter what can be helpful. You don’t need to worry about airs above the ground if you were under saddle. If you’d rather take a more tactful approach, good in-hand work can be invaluable. Asking him for proper flexion, a lifted back and lots of shoulder-in, haunches-in, leg yield at walk (sideways is hard work) and then to go forward (as a reward) can make “go” a lot more appealing instead trying to cowboy him into forward. His personality may point you towards which method may work better. Good luck!

[luvmyhackney]

Have you checked his feet?

[Marla_000]

Is he recently less active in turnout?
I would give the horse a good
Physical.
Make sure the saddle fits too.

[beau159]

@pnwprincess

Where I’m at:

• first ruling out physical, I have the vet coming out Monday, he is totally sound, but definitely want to make sure there is nothing going on
• behavioral… lazy horse + winter off = wanting to continue the life of leisure, so I’m leaning here, but I feel like all of my tricks are failing me… I’ve done waiting him out, small circles, motivation on the ground all to no avail and all with a loose rein and lots of forward seat/leg

What am I missing?? Or am I just colossally impatient? I was looking at pics of my old career / life today and feel so down/stumped that this little grey TB is winning our game of wits lol (if there is nothing physical).

I think you’ve got a good plan in place. It’s always a good idea to make sure there isn’t any physical that is giving him reluctance to move forward.

But with that said, I have NEVER had a horse not move forward because of pain. Had lots of others things and surely have had my fair share of lameness over the years, but forward means forward means forward. Period.

Now, in general, those “more whoa than go” horses can be absolute blessing for new riders, timid, etc because you know they are SAFE and they will not run off. One of my retirees is 19 this year and he’s the type of horse that my kids (ages 7 and 9) can barely get into a trot with much convincing. Whereas I can hop on him and do an immediate walk to lope transition. He knows who is on his back and what his job is. When my kids get to be better, and more confident riders, they’ll get that out of him too. Until then, I am content with him liking to be lazy and not put forth much effort.

Now…horse like yours, well, yes, that gets rather annoying when you are the experienced rider and you feel like it’s a workout to keep him moving.

So I would tell you it’s time to be stern with him. Seriously. Go means go, and it means go now. (not later)

Have a whip ready. Start off on a standstill and ask very nicely for him to move into a walk with a nice squeeze from your calves. Likely, he won’t move (based on what you are telling us). Then you SMACK HIM and you mean it. He had better lurch forward. Let him go a few strides, then pull him up, stop and settle. Than ask again. From a standstill, ask very nicely to move into a walk with a squeeze from your calves. If he does not immediately and briskly give you that stop-to-walk transition, then you hit him again. You repeat until he gives you a nice transition into the walk. Make sure to never “end” your lesson whipping him. If you do this right, you shouldn’t have to repeat more than 2 or 3 times.

He is 9 years old. He knows better. He knows what you are asking. He’s just putting in no effort to do it. You have to TRAIN the effort. This might be something where you need to ride him only yourself (and not your husband) for a while to work on TRAINING that. It will be something you are going to have to reinforce and BE CONSISTENT with because if you put your less than experienced husband on him, he is going to get away with it because your husband won’t be able to do the same things you do. But you can still work on it.

You can do this same method for everything else. Maybe that’s maintaining the trot you asked for. You should not need to “beg” him to stay in a trot, nor NAG on him to stay in a trot, for example. He should maintain the pace you asked for until you direct him otherwise.

I would tell you to have some confidence in yourself. EXPECT HIM to do what you ask and to do it BRISKLY. Be as firm as necessary but do not be afraid to be firm. You aren’t beating on him, but you are setting very, very clear rules so that he understands what is going to happen if he chooses to be lazy. Don’t stop him from making the choice but be ready to show him when it’s the wrong choice.

@pnwprincess

This horse is already lazy, takes a lot of leg to keep forward, but this is new to just stop and refuse to move.

And again, he’s been trained to be lazy because he has been allowed to be lazy.

You should never have to beg to keep him moving forward. That’s his job. He should just do it.

If he stops and plants his feet, then you do whatever it is that you have to do to get his feet to move. It might look really ugly but those feet need to move somewhere. Trust your judgement on if you also have to (for example) turn him to the side, etc, to get him moving, but the feet must move!

And another thing I’ll add with the whipping method above, when he starts moving and does it nicely and you don’t have to use the whip, LEAVE HIM BE!!! Do not allow yourself to fall back into the habit of nagging on him and begging him to keep moving forward. So keep your legs off him and let him do his job of moving forward, like you asked.

If all you do is nag him to move forward, pretty soon (as you have it) your legs mean nothing to him because he is already moving forward yet your bumping on him to keep moving forward. So why would he move forward?

Be very, very very clear with your legs.

[Bluey]

I remember decades ago we had a school horse that was wonderful and willing partner for any and all students, took good care of beginners and was ready to go with advanced students in endurance competitions.
As he hit 9-10 years old, he started having times he would stop and not want to go and we figured he was trying to tie up.
After that we managed him much closer and didn’t have any problems.

Have you checked for metabolic issues? There are good tests for that today.

[fivestrideline]

I skimmed the responses so forgive me if this has been answered but have you had his saddle fitted since his winter off? If he changed shape, what looks like an okay fit could be pinching him when he tries to go forward. It COULD have been contributing to his reluctance to go forward previously if it wasn’t fitted before, and then it just got worse with time off.

After that I’d check his feet. If he’s sore on all 4, you can get balkiness. Throwing some hoof boots on or doing a cycle in shoes can help diagnose. If he’s in shoes, you could try some frog support pads or a composite vs metal if you felt like it. It sounds like you have enough of a winter to freeze the ground - a lot of horses need extra support to stay comfortable, contrary to the old method of pulling shoes in the winter .

If his saddle gets refitted and his feet are comfortable, I’d throw him on an E supp and start reschooling the Forward button.

[OverandOnward]

The backing up portion of the stopping gets my attention. What does his head do – lift, root, stay at roughly shoulder level? Does he show any facial expressions, mouth movements, especially when the behavior first begins?

When he backs up, does he move fluidly as if all body parts are working normally? Is he stiff in any area, showing possible discomfort, especially back end and back legs?

It is one thing for a horse to stop and ‘drop anchor’ on the spot, as it were. When they sort of freeze in place as if their feet are glued to the ground. Not moving at all. For any horse, that may be a part of the fight-flight-freeze response to a fright stimulus, even if it is a reaction to the rider. I know a sensitive mare who does this when she doesn’t understand a rider’s aids because the aids aren’t consistent or well done. She is quickly moved forward with a couple of changes by the rider.

But backing as well makes me think that this may go beyond behavioral.

Could you show a video, if you are comfortable with that?

[OverandOnward]

The other side of this is that sometimes a behavior that begins for a reason - such as a pain; bothered by flies; irritated with the rider - can progress into a habit, even after the ‘reason’ no longer exists. Horses are one of the most trainable species and they will learn things that we never intended to teach them.

[NancyM]

Can you put him back into long ground driving lines and drive him forward from behind successfully? Does he move forward when tacked up and on the lunge or in the round pen? If so, you may be looking at a pain response to the rider being on board… which may or may not be able to be fixed.

There’s a reason why. It takes some detective work to identify the reason why, and figure out if it can be “fixed” or not. A vet can do some of that detective work… but you have to do the rest yourself.

Good luck. Don’t ride a horse with no accelerator pedal. Horses who don’t go forward for you can go UP instead… rearing etc.

[OverandOnward]

If a horse is truly stuck, feet bonded to the ground, and every kind of urging (short of whips) is not working …

A training flag is the next step, for me. You do have to learn how to use it properly to get results. It’s not hard, but it has to be used with commitment. There are a lot of youtube videos to sample and see what you think may work for you.

How the horse responds when it is used properly may help with more clues re behavioral vs physical (or some of both).

Basically it is a ground work device. You can use it while the horse is mounted, with care not to create a dangerous situation for the rider. I’d start with ground work sessions so that the horse understands what it is.

It’s also good for de-sensitizing to touch, although that’s not at issue here.

[Railbird]

Can he ride out with other horses? Peer pressure is valuable for this. If he’s always the only one being ridden and is leaving his buddies, he might just have decided he’s not into leaving the group.

[Amberley]

My guess is herd bound too. Time off being a feral field pony often leads to this kind of separation issue.

Try riding him with another horse in the arena or trail and see if it goes away. Or notice if it’s only an issue when heading away from the gate or field or his friends.

[atr]

Saddle fit would be amongst the first things I would check.

[spurofthemoment]

I’ll tack on and say saddle fit, too.

My guy (young OTTB), when he’s VERY uncomfortable, will plant his feet. I noticed this when trying to use roller spurs on him - he hated the feel and planted. He’s much more responsive to a solid rounded knob spur.

That said - we’ve been having issues lately (forward has become hard, he’ll bulge into a trot transition, and he leans really heavily at the canter under saddle but will gallop free very balanced), so I’ve had the saddle fitter out. We noticed he has some sensitivity in his lumbar. He had a noticeable change in gait when put in a different saddle - we put him back in my original saddle, where he repeated the same “off” movement pattern, then the fitting saddle again and he corrected again.

I’d argue saddle fit issue is best case scenario - it’s the easiest to fix and maintain long-term!