Opinions on shoe job please

[chickenstuffer]

Hi guys,
I’m hoping to get your opinions as I’ve had a falling out with my farrier and I’m not sure if I’m overreacting or not.

I’ve known this farrier for probably 10 years and used him off and on for several of those years, depending on where my horse was located at the time. This happened about a year ago but I’ve moved my horse back to an area that this farrier services and am not sure whether to apologise and try and make amends, or steer clear.

The last time I used him, he was going on holidays in the coming days and seemed to me, to be in a rush to get everyone done before he was leaving. He shod my horse as usual but… and this is where my dilemma is… I felt that the shoes he put on my horse were too small for the foot. Farrier disagreed, says there was nothing wrong with the shoes.

A few days after the shoes were put on, my horse’s foot broke up all around the toes, around where the nails go in. My horse has never had crumbly feet and had never lost a shoe, but his foot split up and just sort of disintegrated really quickly. Just over a week after the shoe was put on, it ripped off in the paddock and took about an inch of my horse’s foot with it.

My farrier was on holidays by that point so I couldn’t call him. When he got back from holidays he took the other shoe off, said he wouldn’t shorten the ‘good foot’ so as to match the short foot, and that was that, my horse was left unshod and unable to be worked.

The end result was that my horse was lame for 4 months while this ripped-off foot regrew. My horse doesn’t grow a lot of hoof so it took a while before he was even. His gait was very uneven and he was sore on the short foot so I couldn’t work him at all for several months. He was pretty much just on paddock rest while it regrew.

Farrier denies that the shoe was too small but I dropped him as a farrier anyway because I felt he was just lying to me. To me the shoe just looks too small and I was angry that he was continuing to try and deny it.

But it’s been a year now and I’m giving some thought to whether I was wrong and should apologise.
I’d really appreciate people’s thoughts on this shoe job. I’m willing to hear that I was wrong if that is the case.

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Here’s the heel of the shoe. To me it looks too small for the foot because his foot was wider than the shoe was. The shoe was narrower and sort of sunk into his foot behind the wall. Every other shoe I’ve had, the shoe was wider than the foot by 1mm or two.

This is how it started - one foot just cracked apart all around the nails and clips, within days of the shoe going on:

Then bits started breaking off right down to the nails:

and then a few days later the shoe ripped off entirely and took a lot of foot with it. Unfortunately I don’t have any pics of that.

So I’m interested to hear your thoughts. Was I wrong about the shoes and did I overreact as the shoe was the right size for the foot. Or did the farrier do the wrong thing, put on shoes too small and then lied to me to cover himself about what he did?

Thank you

[Scribbler]

We need better hoof shots of his current feet.

Put the camera on the ground and shoot a clear side view of each hoof with enough pastern that we can see hoof angle to pastern angle relation. Then straight on shots of the sole.

From these photos I’m guessing you might have heels running forward and chronic long toes and contracted heels. But I can’t tell for sure.

Does the horse have white line disease to cause hoof to break off under nails?

Anyhow lets see where his feet are now. I can’t tell a lot from these old photos, and can’t really advise on a discussion you had last year.

Why were hoof boots not an option when his feet fell apart?

What is horses diet? What mineral supplement is he on?

[chickenstuffer]

@Scribbler

We need better hoof shots of his current feet.

Put the camera on the ground and shoot a clear side view of each hoof with enough pastern that we can see hoof angle to pastern angle relation. Then straight on shots of the sole.

From these photos I’m guessing you might have heels running forward and chronic long toes and contracted heels. But I can’t tell for sure.

Does the horse have white line disease to cause hoof to break off under nails?

Anyhow lets see where his feet are now. I can’t tell a lot from these old photos, and can’t really advise on a discussion you had last year.

Why were hoof boots not an option when his feet fell apart?

What is horses diet? What mineral supplement is he on?

Thanks Scribbler.
He’s pigeon toed so that does affect his feet a little bit but has never been an issue. His weight drops down his leg and then slightly over the side of his heels instead of down the middle of his frog. So his heels end up a little bit crushed, for lack of a better word, but he’d never been lame on his feet.

He doesn’t have white line disease, has never had hoof breaking off under nails either.
Boots weren’t an option as one foot was considerably shorter than the other. Only one shoe ripped off but it took about an inch of foot with it so his feet were drastically different lengths. The farrier wouldn’t do anything to even them up so I had to paddock him for 4 months and get his non-ripped-off-foot trimmed down each trim until his ripped-off-foot grew longer to match it.

Horses diet at the time was 24/7 grazing and a mineral supplement with lucerne chaff. Wasn’t overweight, 16.1h warmblood.

These are the only recent pics I have of some of his feet but unfortunately they’re not the angle you’re after. I’ll have to get some more from the ground.
[IMG2=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“full”,“src”:"https://i.imgur.com/jIJtVBo.jpg)

He has a big stride and had clobbered his heel with his hind foot in this pic but I think it shows that he doesn’t have contraction

[IMG2=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“full”,“src”:"https://i.imgur.com/g90GBuy.jpg)

Edited to add: mineral supplement is prydes easi-150. I’m in australia, prydes is one of our larger feed manufacturers

[chickenstuffer]

His feet aren’t bad at the moment. It’s just that I’ve relocated and now need to find a new trimmer or farrier as my current one doesn’t service the area I’m moving to. But the old farrier who lamed my horse does…
I’m trying to decide whether I overreacted about that shoe job and should apologise and start using him again. It all comes down to whether I was wrong about those shoes or not I suppose.

[firefoot]

Your old farrier sounds difficult. I can’t imagine my farrier not trying to work with me or give me suggestions if my horse were lame like yours was for 4 months. If you get on with your current farrier, I would ask them for a referral or suggestions on how to find a new, good farrier. Or maybe your vet or the people at your local tack shop would have recommendations.

[Fharoah]

Have you taken X-rays of his feet?

[hank]

The current feet look wonderful. If the shoe job was supposed to be less than two weeks old, farrier lied. He didn’t reset the shoe, that looks like a job at least six weeks old. I’d use someone else.

[Scribbler]

Yes the feet overall look way better than when your old farrier was working on him. Unless there is a serious farrier drought in your town, I’d go with someone else.

[chickenstuffer]

@firefoot

Your old farrier sounds difficult. I can’t imagine my farrier not trying to work with me or give me suggestions if my horse were lame like yours was for 4 months. If you get on with your current farrier, I would ask them for a referral or suggestions on how to find a new, good farrier. Or maybe your vet or the people at your local tack shop would have recommendations.

Yes he is/was somewhat difficult, he’s well known as being a bit of a princess.
When I dropped him I did so politely and told him I was “going barefoot” instead. I wouldn’t consider myself “a barefooter” but no farrier could put a shoe back on that foot as there was nothing to nail to, and a barefoot trimmer was already coming to the property to do someone else’s horse. The farrier gets a little bit emotional about the topic of barefoot trimmers but it seemed like a better option to tell him that than to argue with him about how I thought he’d ruined my horse’s foot, seeing as he’d disagreed with my opinions about the shoes.

Anyway, turns out I really like the barefoot trimmer. They are attentive every single appointment and have a big interest in how the feet affect the rest of the body.

I have asked my current trimmer for recommendations but I’ve called those recommendations and none will come out for just one horse unfortunately. Even traditional farriers, they’re asking for at least two horses to travel out here. It seems my entire area is serviced by… that farrier who lamed my horse. He’s even the farrier recommended by the local vet clinic, they use him for corrective shoeing purposes. Admittedly he does do a good job… when he wants to. It just seems like he’s happy to do a sloppy job when needed but I’m not the sort of person who tolerates sloppy jobs.

@Fharoah

Have you taken X-rays of his feet?

I haven’t, no.

@hank

The current feet look wonderful. If the shoe job was supposed to be less than two weeks old, farrier lied. He didn’t reset the shoe, that looks like a job at least six weeks old. I’d use someone else.

My appointments were every 5 weeks, I was standing there holding the horse during the appointment. He definitely took the old shoes off and put new shoes on. He seemed to be in a rush though because he didn’t really trim any old foot off. I had concerns that the new shoes looked too small but he insisted they were fine, so I let it go as who am I to question a qualified farrier? Lesson learned I suppose - next time I won’t let a farrier continue if I feel that strongly about it.

If you look at the old nail holes in the second picture you can see they’re only like 1mm below the new nail holes. To me that shows how much he didn’t even trim down the old foot before nailing the new ones on. Usually the new nail holes are quite a bit higher than the old ones. And the side clips don’t run parallel to the hoof wall at all. To me they look like a set of shoes for a smaller foot, and the pressure between the clips and the nails has caused the wall to sort of explode.

@Scribbler

Yes the feet overall look way better than when your old farrier was working on him. Unless there is a serious farrier drought in your town, I’d go with someone else.

There does appear to be a serious farrier drought, yeah. There are several farriers but none that will come out just for one horse.

I was dreading having to make amends with farrier-who-lamed-my-horse. While I was willing to admit I was wrong, it seems others are equally unimpressed with the shoe job as I was/am.

All that aside… my current trimmer has today found another trimmer who’s happy to take my horse on so all’s well that ends well.

Thanks guys!

[S1969]

@hank

If the shoe job was supposed to be less than two weeks old, farrier lied. He didn’t reset the shoe, that looks like a job at least six weeks old. I’d use someone else.

Or, he pulled the shoe, rasped the bottom, and reset it. Looks like there are a couple of one old nail holes very close to where the nails are driven. So he didn’t trim the horse properly before resetting the shoes. Not surprising they look small, or that the wall broke off and the shoe was lost.

[hank]

Well, if he didn’t trim the foot before applying a different shoe, THAT is NOT doing a proper job. It looks terrible, and it’s horrible to ask a client to pay for that kind of crap job. Not to mention, defending crap job.

[findeight]

That shoe is too small at the heel. Providing no support under where it’s flaking off. Keep looking, dont know about you but I can’t use a professional I can’t get an appointment with or depend on. And I’m sick of temperamental divas.

Have you offered more money for one to come out for the single? Or do you have a trailer so you can haul to another barn for the farrier?

[rmcgowan1015]

I think that original shoe looks too small, and after all that, I wouldn’t let my horse near this guy! Sounds like a primadonna who is set in his ways and would rather do what has always worked for him rather than being concerned about the horse.

[Scribbler]

Ok problem solved if you are barefoot and have a trimmer locally.

Also buy a rasp and learn to touch up.your horse between trims. It is physically awkward but not conceptually difficult.

If that goes well you can eventually buy a hoof knife

[melula]

I don’t think any farrier intentionally does a crappy job, so trying to get him to admit the shoes were too small and feeling lied to is maybe over the top. You either like the job he did and re-hire him or don’t. Looks to me like the shoe was too small and I would not re-hire him.

[kande04]

I may have missed it, but shoes have the size stamped on them, so it should have been easy enough to find out if the farrier nailed a smaller shoe on by comparing the size to the one he took off. Or, just take the old shoe and flip it over and line it up on top the shoe on the hoof and check to see if it’s the same size.

[EmilyM]

see if you can ship your horse to a barn where one of the newly suggested farriers goes so that you can avoid rehiring the old one.

[chickenstuffer]

@Scribbler

Ok problem solved if you are barefoot and have a trimmer locally.

Also buy a rasp and learn to touch up.your horse between trims. It is physically awkward but not conceptually difficult.

If that goes well you can eventually buy a hoof knife

I do actually! Have both a rasp and a knife, I’ve even taken a couple of courses in trimming with cadaver feet so that I could get a basic understanding of feet and not just blindly trust what a farrier tells me. I think all owners have a little bit of responsibility to educate themselves so that they can spot when things are going off-course with their horse.

My own horse is a bit outside my skills though and I leave that to a proper trimmer who does it all day every day. He will never have “normal” feet, his pigeon toes mean that his feet is always a little bit distorted and they’re harder for amateurs like myself than feet attached to straight legs. I’ll knock off some chips if they ever occur between trims but leave the shaping to the pros.

I knew it when I bought him but it was a risk I was willing to take. His knees and fetlocks are straight, he deviates below the fetlock so he’s had no issue with arthritis in his joints thankfully. But the way he loads his front feet means that one side of the hoof is wider than the other, but not through a stretched white line. The weight drops down his leg and over one side of his heel which results in that side of the foot being slightly more splayed out than the other. That’s visible in the bruised heel pic.

I actually love feet stuff but do know my limits and am happy to leave that to good trimmers.

[findeight]

@kande04

I may have missed it, but shoes have the size stamped on them, so it should have been easy enough to find out if the farrier nailed a smaller shoe on by comparing the size to the one he took off. Or, just take the old shoe and flip it over and line it up on top the shoe on the hoof and check to see if it’s the same size.

Many, if not most, better farriers heat the keg shoes up and shape them to that individual foot so the size stamped on them is just what they started with, not what was nailed on…

[S1969]

@hank

Well, if he didn’t trim the foot before applying a different shoe, THAT is NOT doing a proper job. It looks terrible, and it’s horrible to ask a client to pay for that kind of crap job. Not to mention, defending crap job.

Absolutely agree. I was only saying that because of the very close nail holes (which will crumble easily), I think he did reset it. But without a trim, it’s a crap job and actually creates new problems (breaking off the wall).