My mare is very classic old-style Hanoverian and that is what I like, so I want to find a stallion to breed her to for a foal that will be my “keeper”. I realize that crossing these mares with more refined lines is what is popular now in breeding. I want to improve her, but maintain that classic look and mind. Her name is Grandune http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/grandune One other issue is that she requires fresh rather than frozen semen, which eliminates many stallions. Suggestions? I’d like to put a pic of her on here, but I’m a newbie and don’t know how
I’m no help with suggestions but I just want to say KUDOS to you for wanting to keep “type” and that classic old-style warmblood in your next “keeper foal” I personally LOVE the old-style warmbloods. (but I do understand that for the “Olympic Disciplines”…folks tend to put the old-style mare to a more refined/modern/more-blood type)
We want pics!
One of my favorite WBs, who I consider typey - is Rex Grannus.
Contact the Han Verband in Germany. They will probably have some frozen of some very nice stallions that are out of fashion but super talented. Grand Cru, Graft Top…you can never have enough G-line and you often see multiple crosses. Or contact the American Han Society and ask them. They would know some local stallions that fit the bill.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/grand+cru (you will have a ton of Duellent)
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/graf+top more G-line.
His dam was a gelders horse. He has a lovely temperament and is doing Grand Prix.
I love the old-style WB’s a lot ( my favorite mare is old-style) and if she were mine, I’d go with Graf Top II. He had a solid pedigree and is of the G-line which is known for athletic ability, great temperament, and amateur friendly minds. Plus, Edgar at Rainbow Equus Meadows is outstanding to work with.
I also like the old style Hano.
What about Freestyle? He’s lovely, not too modern, and has/throws a great temperament from what I’ve heard.
In the FL Panhandle there are 2 stallions standing. One is in Graceville, Grand Filou. He is Bavarian WB so not Hanno but more old fashioned in type and throws bigger babies that have good type/movement.
There re is also Katie Bryant’s stallion San City. He is throwing perhaps more modern than what you are wanting but is worth a look. He is approved AHS. He is in Ponce De Leon.
I do know both stallions personally.
If you are wanting to stay in the AHS approved stallions there are some nice older style stallions not mentioned yet such as Waterford, then there is Viva Voltaire that is older style and producing some amazing offspring, Schwarteneggar (sp?) has some really interesting older, very versatile blood lines, Lagoheidor is another versatile stallion.
Viva Voltaire come immediately to mind. Also Don Hill, Don Principe, Donnegan, and Wolkentanz II.
fwiw I have seen Wolkentanz II (when he was in quarantine) and I wouldn’t consider him “old style”. I bred to him twice with two pretty modern mares and neither foal has more bone than their mothers.
While Rousseau himself does not look “old style” I have seen plenty of them (especially more from the German mare base) that are big , substantial horses. My four year old stallion is from a Grusus mother (Grusus is bred very similarly to your mare) and by Ampere (Rousseau). My guy is not “old style” as he has a relatively long front leg, but he did retain the substance and bone from his G line mother. If you are interested you can see a pic of my guy here:
Sir Wanabi is another that comes to mind. He looks “old style” in his photos though I have never seen him in the flesh.
I would definitely not consider either Freestyle or Sir Wanabi to be old style. When you stand next to Freestyle he looks like he is about 90% legs; he is definitely a modernizing stallion. Wanabi (who I have seen many times) is tall and has some substance but he is not at all heavy and if you look at his offspring he is proving to be a refining stallion, particularly for heavier mares.
The trouble with breeding old style to old style is that warmbloods get heavier and heavier over successive generations; this is why the Germans (and other European breeders) started to bring in TB (and to some extent Trakehner) blood every few generations to lighten up their progressively heavy horses. This has become a well established principle for breeding sporthorses. Perhaps breeding to a stallion like Sir Wanabi or Bon Balou who is modern enough to add some type and length of leg but still has some substance would be a good compromise.
I think “old style” depends a bit on your frame of reference. Some of us think of old style as very heavy in the body, with lots of bone and substance, wide and stout, short-legged, with a short heavy neck, and a big, heavy head that can run the gamut from “noble” to downright “coarse”.
Conversely, some folks think of old style as somewhere between what I described above and the typey, elegant, long-legged horses we see today.
Also, since there has been so much modernization in sport horse breeding over the past 20-30 years, it is a bit tricky to find a truly old style stallion that is approved for breeding and that is still standing in NA via fresh semen. Most have either passed on, or if still alive, are pretty elderly and retired from breeding.
Here are a few stallions in NA that come to mind. Although I wouldn’t categorize them as TRULY old style, they may offer some of the attributes you are looking for:
A few others I can think of are Donnerschlag, Domiro, and Donovan, although I am not sure they are still available via fresh semen.
Waltzertraum (Wenzel I /Atatuerk / Pikoer)- activated for 2014 with the AHS, contact Terri Tomlinson. Was standing at Bob Orton’s in Gladys, VA. Very correct old-style stallion.
Don Alfredo strikes me as a substantial guy…
Donnerwelt is available frozen.
Thank you all so much for your input! I’ve been obsessively watching videos and reading ads/websites for the above mentioned stallions. Some of them are really fantastic options! I should have added that my mare is extremely sensitive, actually as sensitive and responsive as my Arabs. She can be a little hot too, which surprised me about her. Temperment is super important to me as I’m not a pro. Vet says live cover would be ideal, which is not really an option in the Warmblood world, or fresh AI. She will not take with frozen, so that eliminates many really stallions. Thank you all again I’ve bred and raised Arabs but the wonderful world of warmbloods is still new to me and I’m really eager to learn all I can before making any decisions. I welcome all of your opinions eagerly!
Thank you I made a pic of her my profile pic, but not sure how to post one on here.
I don’t know what old style means, but Freestyle. My 15.3 Swedish mare is super talented, but hot. I wanted taller, a good mind, and a shorter back. I have a 6 and 4 year old by her and Freestyle.
The 6 year old looks just like Freestyle, and looks very big and round and substantial. The 4 year old looks just like her mother and is substantial and leggier. Both of them are taller and much more substantial than mom. He put a lot of substance on both of them and a great back. More importantly, he put an easier mind on both of them. Both are super friendly, easy to work with horses. And, he has super, super fresh cooled semen and Jennifer is great to work with. And he is a bargain for what he produces compared to US prices.
PM if you want to see videos.
Waltzertraum (Wenzel I /Atatuerk / Pikoer)- activated for 2014 with the AHS, contact Terri Tomlinson. Was standing at Bob Orton’s in Gladys, VA. Very correct old-style stallion.[/QUOTE]
I didn’t know Waltzertraum was still breeding - that’s a great suggestion for what the OP is looking for.