Universities must get grant money from Bayer
[QUOTE=85union;7645262]
Iām curious about Oroquin as well. It seems like every so often there is a thread like this singing itās praises. The thread draws some controversy and ends. What is up with this stuff?[/QUOTE]
I donāt know why thereās controversy. Since Oroquin is still in field study, I thought I would share my experience with others. All Iām doing is putting information out there.
When my horse was diagnosed, I spent hours researching the best treatment for EPM. When I started this thread, I didnāt even know if Oroquin was going to work. Iām just trying to help other people, who may be going through this.
[QUOTE=Frizzle;7645113]
Iām just very surprised, given all the glowing reviews, that vets all over my state (FL) advised against it. I had two vets from two different practices each consult with multiple other vets, some from university vet schools, and the end result was, āI can not prescribe thisā from both vets. 
[/QUOTE]
Did they tell you why they couldnāt prescribe Oroquin??
My understanding is that some vets and universities are reluctant to use the Oroquin protocol because it is still in field study, and there are no studies that have been written up, peer-reviewed, and published in major veterinary journals. There is a fair amount of anecdotal evidence of its effectiveness, but most vets are too worried about liability issues to prescribe it. It takes a vet willing to think outside the box, and one with a good understanding of biology/biochemistry, neurology, etc., a keen desire to keep learning, and the desire to stay on the cutting edge of new protocols and techniques. My vet studied it for a while - including the science behind it - before he started prescribing it. And he saw immediate good results, time and again, with very little of the sometimes severe side effects often seen with Marquis, PLUS it is much more affordable than Marquis, and the testing itself is less risky and invasive.
I will also add that when a friend asked her vet about it, he said he wasnāt sure his liability insurance would protect him if he prescribed something āoutsideā the approved, recommended treatment. Thankfully for many horses (and their owners), there are vets out there who are willing to run the risk. 
Ok that makes sense why the vets wonāt prescribe it!
Before choosing a treatment, I spoke with my vet about all my options. Since I had seen results of Oroquin used on other horses at my barn, I decided to go with that. My vet did say he has seen very good results with Oroquin, over other treatments.
Having had a horse with EPM 30 yrs ago, when there was no diagnostic tools, or treatments, I saw first hand what EPM can do. That horse eventually died at New Bolton. EPM was diagnosed in an autopsy.
Needless to say, I went into a panic when my horse was diagnosed with it. I wanted the best treatment out there and from my research, Oroquin was my choice. Iām willing to take the risk, because my horse was going downhill very quickly. For now, all I can say is āmy horse is back to normalā and Iām thrilled.
Today will be day#3 of Levamisole.
Its interesting that some vets are very much āin the boxā in terms of treatments, and others will step outside on certain things. Iāve seen both, and my current vet is NOT wild about stepping out. She is a one-vet shop and I understand where she is coming from. I do think that if she wasnāt willing to go outside the box for EPM treatment, that she would not quit on me if I got another vet to deal with the EPM.
The other thing I would wonderā¦does insurance cover treatment w/ Oroquin or not?
Z- glad to hear your horse continues to do well!
Thanks 2Tempe! Not sure if insurance would cover Oroquin, but itās not expensive.
I didnāt file an insurance claim for my horseās Oroquin treatment - it was affordable enough, and I just didnāt want to bother with the insurance angle. I did report it the next year at renewal time, and they added an exclusion to my policy for any EPM related āconditionā.
I also wanted to add regarding the Oroquin vs Marquis decision for vets - Marquis is produced by Bayer, which is a HUGE company. Bayer tends to have a very strong presence at many veterinary conventions and in a lot of veterinary literature.
By comparison, Pathogenes (originators of the Oroquin-10 treatment) is a tiny, tiny company. They cannot come close to the lobbying/marketing power of Bayer.
Itās a bit of a David and Goliath situation.
[QUOTE=DownYonder;7646954]
I also wanted to add regarding the Oroquin vs Marquis decision for vets - Marquis is produced by Bayer, which is a HUGE company. Bayer tends to have a very strong presence at many veterinary conventions and in a lot of veterinary literature.
By comparison, Pathogenes (originators of the Oroquin-10 treatment) is a tiny, tiny company. They cannot come close to the lobbying/marketing power of Bayer.
Itās a bit of a David and Goliath situation.[/QUOTE]
I agree, but Oroquin is being used more and more ,at least in my area.
I bet in a few years, it will be the drug of choice for EPM.
[QUOTE=Zenyatta;7646367]
Thanks 2Tempe! Not sure if insurance would cover Oroquin, but itās not expensive.[/QUOTE]
And thereās the rub. The vets canāt make money off it. To me, marquis is marginal at at best.
My horse is doing great, no neurological symptoms and heās romping in his paddock. We are through 7 days of the Levamisole and have 7 days left.
I think this thread has been hugely helpful/informative and itās threads like this that make COTH so great. Zenyatta, can you please list your horseās exact protocol for my education? Thankfully I have never had to treat EPM but I remain curious.
I wish my horse was doing as well as yours on Oroquin. He completed the 10 days last Saturday, looked better, got worse, then improved, and again, got worse. Heās still exhibiting neurological symptoms, so I just ordered Marquis. I also have him on 10K of natural Vitamin E, 1 tube of Equioxx, ranitidine, turmeric, MSM.
I did the UC Davis test and the Pathogenes test. 2 weeks prior he was tested for Lyme at Cornell, as initially we had thought heād gotten that again.
In retrospect, I wish I had been more familiar with a couple of the significant signs of EPM, although, when you look at them, they can mimic or be all kinds of other things. What stands out though-- his difficulty with hills, even small ones, he started having issues holding up his hinds for the farrier, he started spooking at weird stuff, and blowing up for no reason.
I just moved him down to GA last October, and Iād had him in training where they rode the crap out of him for a week or so. I went out there and found him footsore and having problems walking down hill, so I pulled him out of there immediately, and took him to Auburn and had a full lameness exam, including blocks and xrays.
They found he was 1/5 on his R stifle, and xrays of his feet showed 4 mm sole depth, so they diagnosed him with thin soles. I padded him, added Cosequin ASU, a round of Pentosan, MSM and started him back in light, mostly dressage, work for the winter.
He improved until about 1.5 months ago, when he was NQR, sore, etc., so thatās when the Lyme test came up. Heād also flexed 2/5 on his stifles. After getting equivocal results from Cornell, we quit the doxy, and about a day later, I turned him out, and he was dragging his front toes and was ataxic in the rear. Heās also lost weight, and the muscles in his butt/rear are just gone. Even the vet couldnāt believe how much muscle wastage had occurred in the time sheād seen him-- about 9 days.
At the exam, Neuro scale = 3, and no fever, so we drew blood for EPM testing. His test results from Davis were 1:40, 33% possibility of an active EPM infection, and the Pathogenes test was Sag 1=4, Sag 5=4 and Sag 6=8. His CRP was 22, anything over 10 is considered elevated.
So, right now, heās improved. Probably a full neuro scale, just like a āsucessfulā treatment result implies, but Iām not sure we caught it in time to have arrested any more neuro deficits, and Iām not about to ride around on a stumbling horse, or sell him off to anyone else to get hurt on, so if he doesnāt exhibit a miraculous recovery, then heāll be put down.
Sorry for hijacking Zenyatta-- Iāve been following your post and hoping for the same results for Woody, but Iām really not sure of a good outcome.
Ask about injectable diclazuril
[QUOTE=vxf111;7650881]
I think this thread has been hugely helpful/informative and itās threads like this that make COTH so great. Zenyatta, can you please list your horseās exact protocol for my education? Thankfully I have never had to treat EPM but I remain curious.[/QUOTE]
1.Blood was drawn and sent to lab.
2. Orquin started 1 pill x 10 days.
3. Day 11, Levamisole started.
4. Levamisole 1 pill x 14 days.
5. Blood to be drawn 4-6 weeks after levamisole is finished.
Total treatment time 24 days.
Saw major improvement on day 6 of Oroquin.
[QUOTE=TimelyImpulse;7651321]
I wish my horse was doing as well as yours on Oroquin. He completed the 10 days last Saturday, looked better, got worse, then improved, and again, got worse. Heās still exhibiting neurological symptoms, so I just ordered Marquis. I also have him on 10K of natural Vitamin E, 1 tube of Equioxx, ranitidine, turmeric, MSM.
I did the UC Davis test and the Pathogenes test. 2 weeks prior he was tested for Lyme at Cornell, as initially we had thought heād gotten that again.
In retrospect, I wish I had been more familiar with a couple of the significant signs of EPM, although, when you look at them, they can mimic or be all kinds of other things. What stands out though-- his difficulty with hills, even small ones, he started having issues holding up his hinds for the farrier, he started spooking at weird stuff, and blowing up for no reason.
I just moved him down to GA last October, and Iād had him in training where they rode the crap out of him for a week or so. I went out there and found him footsore and having problems walking down hill, so I pulled him out of there immediately, and took him to Auburn and had a full lameness exam, including blocks and xrays.
They found he was 1/5 on his R stifle, and xrays of his feet showed 4 mm sole depth, so they diagnosed him with thin soles. I padded him, added Cosequin ASU, a round of Pentosan, MSM and started him back in light, mostly dressage, work for the winter.
He improved until about 1.5 months ago, when he was NQR, sore, etc., so thatās when the Lyme test came up. Heād also flexed 2/5 on his stifles. After getting equivocal results from Cornell, we quit the doxy, and about a day later, I turned him out, and he was dragging his front toes and was ataxic in the rear. Heās also lost weight, and the muscles in his butt/rear are just gone. Even the vet couldnāt believe how much muscle wastage had occurred in the time sheād seen him-- about 9 days.
At the exam, Neuro scale = 3, and no fever, so we drew blood for EPM testing. His test results from Davis were 1:40, 33% possibility of an active EPM infection, and the Pathogenes test was Sag 1=4, Sag 5=4 and Sag 6=8. His CRP was 22, anything over 10 is considered elevated.
So, right now, heās improved. Probably a full neuro scale, just like a āsucessfulā treatment result implies, but Iām not sure we caught it in time to have arrested any more neuro deficits, and Iām not about to ride around on a stumbling horse, or sell him off to anyone else to get hurt on, so if he doesnāt exhibit a miraculous recovery, then heāll be put down.
Sorry for hijacking Zenyatta-- Iāve been following your post and hoping for the same results for Woody, but Iām really not sure of a good outcome.[/QUOTE]
Iām sorry to hear your horse is not doing well, hopefully Marquis will be a better treatment for your horse.
Looking back, my horse was showing signs of EPM months ago. Heās older and retired, I thought it was arthritis setting in. First sign was a slight lameness in right front, then he had trouble standing up after napping. It was only when he started walking like he was drunk, did I realise something was wrong.
I have two other horses who seem fine, but I do plan on having all of them tested, when they receive their spring and fall vaccinations. The blood test is inexpensive and Iām now shell shocked.
Iām keeping my fingers crossed for you Timely, I know the heartache of dealing with a sick horse.
[QUOTE=Frizzle;7645113]
Iām just very surprised, given all the glowing reviews, that vets all over my state (FL) advised against it. I had two vets from two different practices each consult with multiple other vets, some from university vet schools, and the end result was, āI can not prescribe thisā from both vets. [/QUOTE]
I am in Ocala Fl. and every vet I have talked to about it raves about Oroquin 10 over the other treatments.We have had 3 horses in the barn treated with it with positive results. Frizzle I would be happy to pass the # along to you if you need a vet in Fl.
[QUOTE=nextyear;7651950]
I am in Ocala Fl. and every vet I have talked to about it raves about Oroquin 10 over the other treatments.We have had 3 horses in the barn treated with it with positive results. Frizzle I would be happy to pass the # along to you if you need a vet in Fl.[/QUOTE]
I very much appreciate it, but Iām in Miamiāthat would be quite a haul! :lol: Fingers crossed, my guy is almost done with the Marquis treatment and is doing really well. He did have a slight reation to the Marquis (hives), but Benadryl is taking care of that. I also have him on high doses of both vit E & MSM, and I did have him on bute (since his main symptom was having trouble getting up) but have weaned him off of it.
