Sorry if this is in the wrong place (we aren’t started over jumps yet). Looking for some thoughts on an intelligent but difficult mare. She has been off the track 2 years, was purchased as a broodmare for Anglo-arabs (hasn’t done it yet) and has almost no retraining aside from the 15 or so rides I’ve got on her. She isn’t mine but I’ve got her on a lease because I’m a masochist.
She seems to be moody, so I’m trying to figure her out. She started out fairly well behaved in the outdoor arena, just some crowhops. She does get very strong at the canter, but is learning she has 3 gaits other than gallop. Sometimes she is really great, concentrating. But is 100% positive riding is a democracy. When she’s done she will plant herself, refuse to move, and then turn her head and glare at you (seriously). This could be 40 minutes in, it could be 20 minutes in. If you push it, she goes into Dragon Mode. She has this truely impressive crow hop/twist sideways like a bronco/followed by bolting move. Odds are not in my favor when she does this and i have gone flying a couple times. So, I’ve been round penning her when she throws on the parking brake, as soon as you get her away from other horses she sort of resets. It’s also helping her learn to bend, she’s super klutzy going right. She will sidepass left rather than go right sometimes! Recently she’s been atrocious if I start her in the round pen and then take her into the big arena OR start in the arena. She starts out a primed nuke and will eventually hit Dragon Mode even from a walk trot transition in the arena. She’s also been invested in fake spooking lately. “Ehmegerd a BIRD!!” (bolts). She’ll walk over the garbage bags and under streamers in the trail course when she isn’t committed to being an ass. It isn’t the saddle, I’ve had a professional fitter out. I’m working on figuring out her reaction reasons and how far to push her so she understands she isn’t the decision maker. I am partially convinced it’s just that she’s pissy about being ridden 3x a week when no one’s been on her in so long.
I expect it is pain.
Are you actually paying for this lease? They should be paying you (or someone else with a bigger tool kit) to restart her.
Sounds like absentee or neglectful owners. Will they put cash into vet diagnostics? Here’s what I’d want to know about:
Ulcers (try a month of Gastrogard), kissing spine, C5/C6 malformaton, hoof balance, sole thickness, repro issues (try a test on Regumate). Get vet to do a general lameness workup. And teeth, especially any impacted teeth.
This is a lot to spend to fix someone else’s problem so unless the owners are able to pay, I’d walk away
Once you get her pain fixed you will need to restart her from the ground to get her over the learned behavior from the chronic pain.
Horses absolutely do spook more when in pain, and absolutely something like kissing spines could give sudden bursts of pain that make them reactive.
There’s no magic bullet training method for a horse in pain.
Pain would be the obvious answer. I don’t know how much in diagnostics I’d sink into an untrained lease horse but I don’t think you can expect to get anywhere without a full vet workup, so up to you on that one.
After that, it sounds like she may be overwhelmed. It sounds like she was in a field doing nothing for 2 years and now suddenly she’s going W/T/C, riding for over 40 minutes, round-penning, going through a trail course, etc. That’s a big change. She may just be drowning and this is how her anxiety comes out. What happens if you get on her and just walk? Or take her out and just do some groundwork? You may try taking things way back to basics for a few weeks and see how she responds.
I would also make sure you aren’t creating the problem yourself. You point out that she’s a chestnut mare right off the bat, and call her pissy and an ass and a dragon. It’s easy to joke about the spicy mare types, but be careful it isn’t coloring how you interact with her. If you go in expecting a fight that’s what’s going to happen. Treat her like a good, willing partner and meet her where she is.
The ones that start out ok and then get worse are sore and riding is making them sorer. Particularly when they don’t bend in one direction. I wouldn’t even be cantering a horse that’s been off for 2 years at 15 rides in, let alone riding it for 40 minutes unless that’s all walking. You run a very serious risk of making them so sore and sour that they are unrideable forever.
I am paying, but its a pittance. I rode for 10+ years nearly every day (even got paid for a few horses), though for the last 20 it hasn’t been in the cards. I resumed lessons for about 6 months to get the muscle memory & balance back. I always wanted to try an OTTB and it’s a month by month contract so I’m not really out anything. I’m not interested in showing or buying her. The owner runs a boarding/lessons stable and breeds Arabs, so I can testify she isn’t neglected. I am pretty confident the owner isn’t going to believe that it’s a pain issue and up for getting it investigated though. Here’s an oddity if it is a pain issue (I am not ruling out thst it is). She one day decided she didn’t care if I got on her. She used to do the racehorse spin at the mounting block…and one day, just went “meh.” Stands fine now. If she does blow up & pitch me…she kind of goes “ugh, fine” when I get back on and starts being more cooperative.
I have a dry/sarcastic sense of humor that doesn’t always translate well in text. I actually have a special place in my heart for mares, the horse that I learned to jump on was a mare. If anything I’m trying to be more sensitive to her. It may have been 20 rides now, I’m not keeping track very well. Before I signed the lease she was only getting ridden once per week (mostly by me). The canter rounds were once or twice in both directions. Minimal in other words, and for the last 2 weeks we’ve done nothing but w/t. We do a lot of walking actually. She can come out of the gate (pun intended) wound up at the walk when going into the arena right after she was plodding around at the walk and stretching her neck down in the round pen. But, she doesn’t always go into the arena like that. The trail course is…her doing? She starts zig-zagging toward it sometimes so I kind of just adopt the “ok we’re doing it now” approach on one of the obstacles and keep a little leg on her. She’s mostly indifferent toward it. It’s just hard to pin anything down as being a pattern.
I agree with your reasoning but her level of cooperation is pretty erratic. The line between crossing the line/souring her and re-education is the one I’m trying to find.
So your job is to find out the reason she starts resisting. It’s not erratic, from her perspective. It’s a totally necessary response to the moment.
You might want to have a look at behaviorist videos. You need to learn to see when her emotions are building, and then back off or redirect before she has a meltdown. Guaranteed she is giving you all kinds of cues that you are not seeing, before she explodes. You just aren’t reading her closely enough.
It’s going to be a combination of pain plus being emotionally overwhelmed.
Being so stiff she can’t turn to one direction is a huge red flag even if she isn’t “acting up.” You need to work with her on the ground in tiny increments until you can see and feel where the blockage or issue is.
This horse is not safe enough to ride right now and it’s also counter productive to get on and cowboy through.
You need to back way up and work in tiny increments and observe her eyes, her mouth, the symmetry of her movements, etc.
giving her banamine an hour before you ride her can help you determine if it is pain. of course will exacerbate if it is ulcer related.
I don’t see an age posted, but I assume she is young if she’s off the track 2 years. . 5? i do keep rides short when they are young, and basically have very small goals for each ride such that i try not to get to a come to jesus moment. especially if she’s struggling with one side or particular gaits. slow and steady really wins the race with the young ones.
Also, if she struggles with her right lead canter, i’d work on her leg yielding both directions, especially moving off the right leg to the left rein. I teach my young horses to leg yield before they canter so all the buttons I need for the correct lead are there. “Strong” in the canter probably means weak behind and not fully developed balance.
I hope some of this helps. good luck!
You need to find a trainer that has experience restarting OTTBs to help you. If this is your first OTTB and first regular riding after such a long time off you’re not doing either of you any favors and are likely to create more problems than you solve, not to mention the risk of getting yourself hurt. In the meantime as has already been said, explore the vet route, back way off, and respect what the mare is trying to communicate to you.
The medication options are very limited to say the least unfortunately. The owner is pretty much of the opinion she’s bored and just wants to gallop.
She’s actually 8, they ran her for quite a while. One of the fascinating things about this horse is she will pick up the right lead going right but be off kilter leaning to the left. And she will do flying lead changes like nobody’s business. 100% agree on the strength (or lack thereof). I was hesitating on bringing laterals into the mix until her balance to the right was better, but that may be a good strength training exercise. I appreciate everyone who is taking the time to comment.
So this is a green horse that’s not been worked in two years, and you’re riding her for 40+ minutes? Including cantering?
What have you done to build fitness before sitting on her?
It sounds like she’s terribly unfit, but trying hard, and you’re riding her way too long and asking way too much. Of course she’s complaining.
Back waaaaaaaaaaaaay up and stop treating her like a broke, fit horse. She’s neither. Treat her like a baby you’re bringing along, which she is.
I start with hand walking. You’re just miles past what this horse is able to give you, and you’re seeing the consequences of that.
Ulcerguard is easy to buy and doesn’t require a script. You can dose it like gastroguard (it’s the exact same product).
If you’re committed to figuring out what’s wrong but don’t want to bring a vet out, then I’d start there.
Erratic behavior like you describe usually means SOMETHING’S hurting.
It may be as simple as she’s unfit and she’s getting sore/tired really quickly. It may be more serious like ulcers or KS.
Ulcers are by far and away one of the easiest things to rule. out. Esp if she’s turning and “looking” at you while you’re on her–I know a TB that was like this when he had flare ups.
Also once upon a time, I worked with a really unfit Hony, and one of our rides each week was spent primarily at the walk and doing stretches on the ground. We worked on lateral work at the walk; walking over poles and caveletti patterns; walking up and down hills. Solid 30 minutes.
Literally that was the workout.
Results started to show themselves after about 8 weeks. Became a much more manageable horse at the canter because she started to learn how to balance herself since she’d built up some core strength. I didn’t even bother with a lot of stuff at the trot until she had a balanced walk and then a balanced canter.
I do a lot of these every year. Horses that have sat for whatever reason. The ones that have been erratic hurt. They are erratic because no one hurts the same every day.
The owner is the person who invited me to ride her & it isn’t her first OTTB. She’s never had anything negative to say about what I’m doing/how I’m experimenting and has been out i believe every time I’ve been on the horse. Actually she thinks the horse is just not wholly out of “race mode” under saddle and is bored. It’s not out of believability, mare gets excited (for lack of a better word) coming up on the long side of the arena. So, that is one of the things i am also mulling over. Anyway, I’m not wholly unchaperoned per se. Backing off further into just round pen work is looking like a good option though.
I came here to say this.
I’d also suggest taking it EXTRA slow. Slower than you want. I went through something similar with a difficult, opinionated, strong-willed chestnut mare (I still have her, 6 years later). Granted mine was not off the track.
I lunged her a LOT before ever riding her (as in many times, not lunging for a long time before getting on). Then, she wouldn’t stand at the mounting block, so I got on, got off, got on, got off. And repeat.
Then, I suggest quitting while you’re ahead. Make them think it’s their idea. If she’s doing well, being relaxed, and going forward 10 min in? Call it.
Best of luck! I know with mares especially, determining if it’s sheer willpower and drive and not pain is a tough hurdle to get over.
Contrary to what many people believe, racehorses don’t spend all their time racing. The average racehorse in training probably spends no more than 5 minutes a month galloping at speed. The rest of the time they are building or maintaining fitness by walking, trotting and cantering (called galloping at the track) daily. When they’re being ridden, they are expected to stop, steer, bend, and generally pay attention to what their riders need them to do. If this mare was in “race mode” she wouldn’t be behaving in the ways you’ve described. Like others who have posted, I think she’s in pain.
I was just going to ask this–if the OP has ever ended the training session before she started to object, or if every session was until she started acting up. If the latter is the case, then being ridden at all is associated with being pushed past her level of comfort.
This behaviour sounds similar to two OTTB mares that I have known. In both cases, thousands of dollars was put into health checks and tests and it was eventually determined that they are just touchy mares. I’ve lost track of one mare, but the other I’ve known for 20 years. She’s great under saddle for her owner, but a time-bomb for anyone else. Her ground manners are temperamental. Very sweet, but with a short fuse.
