OTTB with sudden dangerous behavior - HELP

[MMurfey]

This is a little long, but inn desperate need of help!!

I bought an OTTB in March 2011, so about 4 years ago. He just turned 12 years old on February 17th. I bought him from a dealer and he was underweight, covered in fungus and rain rot, and his legs were so puffy from standing in an uncleaned tie-stall for 4 days you couldn’t locate his fetlocks. He was already 2 years off the track when I got him with only enough “training” for him to bounce around dealers.
We had a rough start. It took a little over a year before I started to get the sense that he was actually getting and willing to work. It took a lot of work, but summer/fall 2013 I started eventing him and we competed through Beginner Novice a couple times.
He was always a typical OTTB - good heart but can be a little flighty at times. In-hand the most he’d do is prance and act excited. He would never do anything really threatening and was always easy to calmly talk down and really responded to being comforted.

Fast forward to Spring 2014 when he began to change. The boarding barn I keep him at is owned by my family. A couple times he supposedly lept into the air when being led in or out to the pasture. I never saw this, he’d only done it to my mother.
In May 2014 I moved to Vermont for an internship and brought him with me. The barn I kept him at quickly notified me that he was acting dangerously - exploding, leaping into the air, kicking and striking out at whoever was leading him. He also began to act dangerously on the lunge line - turning towards me, striking out, coming at me. This horse used to be perfect on the lunge line and all of sudden started this behavior.
He then also began to have urinary tract/bladder issues sometime in June 2014. He would not park out, drop, and urinate all over his back legs. Then he would dribble, more so when walking. Vet suspected a UTI and it seemed to resolve after SMZ’s. This “UTI” occurred twice over the summer. After the second time he was scoped (bladder & stomach), ultrasounded (kidneys, bladder, sheath/urinary tract, etc), palpated…Blood drawn for EPM, Lyme, deficiencies, anything you could possibly suggest trust me we tested for it. Everything was negative. The only thing that came back was low Vitamin E. He seemed to get better after beginning supplementing natural Vitamin E. Weight returned, coat got smoother and brighter, generally seemed content again.
He still seemed uncomfortable so the vet came out to adjust his back. While jogging him for the vet he lept into the air and kicked me in the thigh with a hind leg. The next time the vet came out for a chiro he put him on the lunge line which ended up in my horse striking out and being so rowdy that he tangled himself up in the lunge line, completely lost his marbles and went flying out of the barn. I have never seen my horse so absolutely wild and it scared me.

We eventually sided with the theory that he may have had a spinal injury while on the track or sometime in the 2 year gap before I got him, and he could’ve re-injured it or tweaked it causing the behavioral changes and bladder paralysis. Because UTI’s are extremely rare in horses and the fact it happened twice within one summer is a big red flag.

I moved back home in September 2014 and decided to give him time off. He seemed to be calming down, but every now and then would act crazy again.

This horse is a total lush, a puppy dog, and so loving. But out of no where he can basically “black out” and be completely gone and unpredictable, and there’s no way to get him to stop. And all of this is new within the last year.

He is on SmartCalm Ultra as well as Divine Equine (formerly calm & cool). They seem to help a little, but honestly its not enough to convince me they are worth spending the money on.

What would be your suggestions?.

Edit:
He was undersaddle all summer, getting time off during the various periods of bladder issues.
Stopped riding early October after her urinated blood. He since does not posture correctly - he hunches and doesn’t spread very much. He was on Previcox & robaxin for a while and that helped ease the discomfort. But still Ian 100% and has been very calm since. Once in a while he’ll act up but the striking out has not happened in a couple months.

Edit:
Going do put him on Gabapentin, see how much more he improves. Get a bone scan when I get the $$ together. And when he is ready & more physically comfortable I will seek out a trainer to restart his ground work.

[Laurierace]

If you have truly ruled out a physical cause then it has to be behavioral. Restarting him in hand with a firm trainer who doesn’t take any crap but doesn’t get emotional is where I would start. Have you tried a week of bute? Treated for ulcers? A shot of reserpine is worth a try.

[Ruth0552]

No amount of training will solve a physical issue. If there is truly a physical cause then there isn’t a supplement or routine that will make him stop having this episodes.

I would do a bute trial and see if the behavior gets better.

Changes in routine will cause issues, esp. in a OTTB. I swear by putting them out 24/7 with a shed, lots of hay, and a minimal amount of grain. That will usually help a “hot” OTTB, but it doesn’t sound like yours is “hot” really. It might help moderate the symptoms at least though, and I’m sure it would be helpful if people needed to handle him a minimal amount.

[Flash44]

This aggressive type of behavior doesn’t usually evolve suddenly, it’s usually due to the habits of the people handling the horse. I suspect that because you’ve handled this horse gently since you’ve had him and calmly talked him down and comforted him when he’s acted unruly, you’ve actually rewarded this bad behavior. And you’ve been acting in a submissive manner with him, so he thinks he is dominant over you. He’s started literally throwing his weight around and has you on the run. I think you need professional help with him because he is acting so very aggressive. I am also concerned that possibly you have not gotten to the bottom of something that may be physically bothering him, but you seem to have covered all the bases so I don’t have any suggestions for that.

[asterix]

Not to suggest you keep throwing money at this, but have you done a bone scan? If he has an old injury this would certainly give you a location and sense of severity.

[oldernewbie]

I can’t believe we’re on the 4th post and no one has mentioned this but ulcers??? It doesn’t sound like you’ve checked him for them and it seems to be stereotypical with OTTBs. I think I would get him scoped and then go the Gastroguard route or just give him a trial on GG. Might try this before you try the bute.

There sure seems to be a rash of these sudden behavioral changes lately. Hard nut to crack.

[Countrywood]

I am so sorry to hear this after all he, and you have been through. As others suggested, dietary changes are worth trying as well as further physical of any possible condition…

it also could be that he is having flashbacks to abuse, which imo animals have.

In addition to above suggestions I would try working with an NH trainer , one might be in your area. They specialize in difficult so it might be a good fit. Even you can do the self taught basics watch it on line, need a rope halter, gloves, thick long lead and dressage whip or carrot stick . sometimes NH gets a bad rap but it can truly help change a horse and especially for ground manners, personal space and handling issues

best of luck hoping for good outcome

anetr ather

[riopony]

My OTTB went off the deep end a year and a half ago, he was always a little hotter than what you are describing about yours, but started the same thing. Rearing, capriole, looked like a Lipizzaner but in a dangerous way. For him it was the SI. We did the bone scan. Once we injected his SI and the pain wore off he is a snuggle bug. He is back on stall rest for yet a different injury and is sane. Last winter when he was on stall rest I truly thought either him or I would get seriously injured.

What his vet/ chiro explained is that it seems like horses/ people, can “grow” (maybe not the right word but my understanding of it) additional nerves when they are in a lot of pain. So then they become hypersensitive and he was living in a constant state of hyper-active pain. I couldn’t even brush him. If you didn’t know it was pain you would have just thought he was an a**. He is completely different now.

So… It very well could be something higher up in the back. I have no idea what given the urinating and UTI issue but I feel for you. A bone scan might be what it is. I am also in NH and did the bone scan in Rochester. I feel like it was worth it.

[MMurfey]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;8032922]
If you have truly ruled out a physical cause then it has to be behavioral. Restarting him in hand with a firm trainer who doesn’t take any crap but doesn’t get emotional is where I would start. Have you tried a week of bute? Treated for ulcers? A shot of reserpine is worth a try.[/QUOTE]

The vet that tried lunging him is an excellent horseman with that exact description and it ended in my horse tangled in the line bolting out of the barn. I just am hesitant to have someone else work it out because they could get seriously hurt.
He was on a month of previcox and robaxin, no difference.
Scoped for ulcers and his stomach was completely spotless. Treated anyways, no difference.

[Simkie]

I’d want a bone scan on this horse, especially since you’ve suspected spinal involvement.

A brain tumor might not also be totally outside the realm of possibility.

Good luck–what a difficult situation.

[MMurfey]

[QUOTE=asterix;8032975]
Not to suggest you keep throwing money at this, but have you done a bone scan? If he has an old injury this would certainly give you a location and sense of severity.[/QUOTE]

I would like to do that, but have spent thousands already. It is still an option!

[MMurfey]

[QUOTE=riopony;8033027]
My OTTB went off the deep end a year and a half ago, he was always a little hotter than what you are describing about yours, but started the same thing. Rearing, capriole, looked like a Lipizzaner but in a dangerous way. For him it was the SI. We did the bone scan. Once we injected his SI and the pain wore off he is a snuggle bug. He is back on stall rest for yet a different injury and is sane. Last winter when he was on stall rest I truly thought either him or I would get seriously injured.

What his vet/ chiro explained is that it seems like horses/ people, can “grow” (maybe not the right word but my understanding of it) additional nerves when they are in a lot of pain. So then they become hypersensitive and he was living in a constant state of hyper-active pain. I couldn’t even brush him. If you didn’t know it was pain you would have just thought he was an a**. He is completely different now.

So… It very well could be something higher up in the back. I have no idea what given the urinating and UTI issue but I feel for you. A bone scan might be what it is. I am also in NH and did the bone scan in Rochester. I feel like it was worth it.[/QUOTE]

Thank you! I think we suspected SI once but it was never suggested again. I am still considering the bone scan.

[MMurfey]

[QUOTE=oldernewbie;8032977]
I can’t believe we’re on the 4th post and no one has mentioned this but ulcers??? It doesn’t sound like you’ve checked him for them and it seems to be stereotypical with OTTBs. I think I would get him scoped and then go the Gastroguard route or just give him a trial on GG. Might try this before you try the bute.

There sure seems to be a rash of these sudden behavioral changes lately. Hard nut to crack. :([/QUOTE]

I did mention briefly that we scoped everything we could possibly scope. His stomach was completely clear, nothing whatsoever. We still treated, didn’t do much difference.

[MMurfey]

[QUOTE=Simkie;8033050]
I’d want a bone scan on this horse, especially since you’ve suspected spinal involvement.

A brain tumor might not also be totally outside the realm of possibility.

Good luck–what a difficult situation.[/QUOTE]

Never considered a brain tumor - how does that even get diagnosed?

[Posting_Trot]

Is it possible that any of the personnel at the boarding barn that you temporarily moved him to might have mishandled him?

I ask because you said that while he had occasionally acted bad with your mother at your parents’ boarding barn, the really dangerous behavior seemed to emerge when you moved. Is it possible that the person(s) who had to take to pasture or do his stall got unnerved by one episode and then began consistently to mishandle him?

I think this is tough to figure out and perhaps tough to solve. I’d definitely try a trial of bute to see if it has any effect. It might also be worth just treating him for ulcers for a week (maybe before the bute trial) to see if that has any impact.

At that point, I think I’d work with him on the ground for a while, may be teach him clicker training. Keep it low-key, consistent and positive but keep his mind engaged as well. Give that a few months and see where you are.

I’d also suggest that, insofar as it is possible, you should always try to be the one handling him for the next couple of months. You should take on full control, full responsibility, and shoulder the full risk.

Good luck.

[Simkie]

[QUOTE=MMurfey;8033063]
Never considered a brain tumor - how does that even get diagnosed?[/QUOTE]

I would think you’d need an MRI to definitively diagnose a living horse. A radiograph might be useful.

I think they’re generally found on necropsy.

[MMurfey]

[QUOTE=Posting Trot;8033075]
Is it possible that any of the personnel at the boarding barn that you temporarily moved him to might have mishandled him?

I ask because you said that while he had occasionally acted bad with your mother at your parents’ boarding barn, the really dangerous behavior seemed to emerge when you moved. Is it possible that the person(s) who had to take to pasture or do his stall got unnerved by one episode and then began consistently to mishandle him?

I think this is tough to figure out and perhaps tough to solve. I’d definitely try a trial of bute to see if it has any effect. It might also be worth just treating him for ulcers for a week (maybe before the bute trial) to see if that has any impact.

At that point, I think I’d work with him on the ground for a while, may be teach him clicker training. Keep it low-key, consistent and positive but keep his mind engaged as well. Give that a few months and see where you are.

I’d also suggest that, insofar as it is possible, you should always try to be the one handling him for the next couple of months. You should take on full control, full responsibility, and shoulder the full risk.

Good luck.[/QUOTE]

I have a lot of trust for the trainer and the students working for her at the barn I kept him at so I really can’t say I’d suspect some sort of episode happening with them. I would, however suspect an issue to have begun with my mom knowing she can be impatient and she seems to be the only he had been running over at the time.

Coming into the spring I planned to throw him on Ulcerguard for a couple weeks, since it has been a very cold and difficult winter here in NH.

The only problem with working him on the ground is that one little thing will set him off, without warning. He just can’t seem to focus anymore.

Since moving him back home I have been handling him 90% of the time and he’s been pretty good with an occasional bad day. My mother is south this winter and has not handled him at all.

I will add that throughout this he was fairly well-behaved under saddle. Occasionally he would have a bad day, but nothing out of the ordinary. He has had time off since October after we suspected spinal pain. He physically look great, happy, but occasionally the crazy comes out and that’s what I’m worried about. Its spontaneous, no matter who is handling him.

[Mukluk]

I don’t really have any additional advice but I certainly feel for you. What a heart breaking situation. I hope it will work out for the best.

[MMurfey]

[QUOTE=Mukluk;8033103]
I don’t really have any additional advice but I certainly feel for you. What a heart breaking situation. I hope it will work out for the best.[/QUOTE]

It is really frustrating… This horse is my best friend and he’s come such a long way since I got him. This just isn’t him and I feel like I’m running out of ideas.

[walkers]

I had a gentle well behaved mare who became agressive when I moved her away from her old herd to a new barn. I couldn’t believe that she was being dangerous to people who went in her field to get their horses. This was a horse u could put a kid on with a lead line. I moved her back to her buddies and never saw this behavior again.

That said I also deeply regret keeping a horse like you are describing because someone got hurt. No horse is worth it.
Figure it out soon, keep him sedated meanwhile or put him down before he really hurts someone.
I wish I had…