our new dog attacked my horse--can this be fixed?

[S1969]

[QUOTE=aliceo;8447465]
and, i firmly believe that dogs are individuals and many times do not fit the breed profile.[/QUOTE]

The whole point of breeding dogs is to ensure that they DO fit the breed profile. A well-bred puppy from a breeding selected for correct temperament and breed traits is the best way to get what you want. But, it requires the puppy training part, which may not suit your needs at this time.

You can get a great adult purebred or mixed breed dog from a shelter or rescue, but you may be just as likely to get one that is not, or that might even have problems due to its previous ownership.

I’m not trying to talk you out of rescue/adopting, but if you truly want a working dog with a predictable temperament, the best way is to get one from a breeder that can demonstrate what you want in their breeding stock.

It’s not as much about the “breed” - but about the “breeding.”

[Countrywood]

Because it’s so horse and activity specific, what about not a puppy but still a youngish dog so its character is still forming? Like 8 months to a year and a half, for example.

I dunno I like a good mixed breed with soft eyes maybe a lab mix or pit mix that is friendly, dalmatians have a history of carriage dogs…just check the shelters or rescues see what is out there.

[threedogpack]

S1969 is correct that you are more likely to get dog that fits your criteria if it has been deliberately bred.

All that said, focus more on body type, coat type and then personality.

If you want a dog that can go with you on trail rides, you need legs long enough to keep up, a body type that is not thick. Think the difference between the leg length of a Wolfhound vs the leg to body length of a Corgi. The WH will cover more ground and not get tired as quick. Then you want a lithe body type, not a thick heavy body type with no smushed noses. Coat type matters. A Whippet is going to need foot protection and clothing in Maine, but a Bernese Mt Dog is going to melt in Arizona. So just take that into consideration too

[aliceo]

i went the route of finding a good breeder. spent three years researching breeders, and found the best breeder i could. spectacular record and dogs. still ended up with a dog that was atypical and had temperament issues. there are no guarantees.

[cowboymom]

I totally agree with everything that 3dogpack is saying; her assessment is straight on.

That said, I still wouldn’t keep this dog if I had brought it home. :no: I have spacey kids and unreliable doors, I wouldn’t want to sort out all the issues for a dog that is especially difficult for a difficult breed.

I’m around heelers All Day Long. I know a few that will snip at you from the truck and heel too hard but I know of NONE that would be that hard, that fast.

I’m afraid this dog has been messed up by his start in life. Someone needs to want to fix it or else.

There are SCADS of “cowdog crosses” in MT that won’t try to kill your horse. SCADS good lord. I can set you up with some if you want. And no, nobody deliberately bred. Not here, not for what OP wants.

I feel bad for this dog but the logical side of me says Nope.

ETA My chihuahua went on a 100 mile 7 day pack trip in the Bob Marshall last summer. I have lived in MT my whole life and currently have six dogs; worked in clinics here and volunteered and taken on a boatload of dogs. OP, just head to the pound or local FB page, there is a good dog. Don’t over think.

[aliceo]

cowboymom, you wrote:

“There are SCADS of “cowdog crosses” in MT that won’t try to kill your horse. SCADS good lord. I can set you up with some if you want.”

yes, please. where are you?

[S1969]

[QUOTE=aliceo;8447730]
i went the route of finding a good breeder. spent three years researching breeders, and found the best breeder i could. spectacular record and dogs. still ended up with a dog that was atypical and had temperament issues. there are no guarantees.[/QUOTE]

No, there are no guarantees. But deliberate breedings dramatically increase the likelihood of getting what you expect.

Adoption or rescue are great options, if that’s what you want to do.

[aliceo]

focus more on body type, coat type and then personality.

absolutely. that is what i have been doing. but, the good news/bad news is, there have been very slim pickins at the pound over the past month. not much to look at.

[cowboymom]

[QUOTE=aliceo;8447784]
cowboymom, you wrote:

“There are SCADS of “cowdog crosses” in MT that won’t try to kill your horse. SCADS good lord. I can set you up with some if you want.”

yes, please. where are you?[/QUOTE]

I’m between Great Falls and Lewistown. Want a puppy? Juvenile? or Adult. Give me 24 hours, I’m serious.

[cowboymom]

Off the top of my head I know of some aussie pups near me, two border collie pups in the Flathead, some heeler pups near me for $200 each. And that’s not even touching the shelters or pounds.

[aliceo]

[QUOTE=cowboymom;8447795]
Off the top of my head I know of some aussie pups near me, two border collie pups in the Flathead, some heeler pups near me for $200 each. And that’s not even touching the shelters or pounds.[/QUOTE]

adult dog, 40-60 lbs, 2-5 years old. short hair, long legs, built for running, soft disposition, biddable, kind, people-focused. (and not a horse-killer.)

you are not that far away from me. a couple of hours.

[cowboymom]

Got it! I’ll be in touch!

[threedogpack]

Thank you Cowboymom for helping out. Aliceo, I’m sure CBM will find you something suitable. I hope the boy you got finds a soft landing.

[aliceo]

[QUOTE=cowboymom;8447814]
Got it! I’ll be in touch![/QUOTE]

awesome!!! thank you so much!

[aliceo]

[QUOTE=threedogpack;8447831]
Thank you Cowboymom for helping out. Aliceo, I’m sure CBM will find you something suitable. I hope the boy you got finds a soft landing.[/QUOTE]

i think this dog will be perfect with an owner who is a serious obedience, agility, or other athletic discipline competitor.

he seriously could be a world-class obedience dog. if we kept him, i would get back into obedience and agility competitions, just because it would be a crime to not involve him in that.

we have decided to try reintroducing him to the horse in a very structured way, setting him up to succeed. he could have behaved like he did for any number of reasons i don’t understand. i wish any of you had been there so that i had another pair of eyes to assess what happened.

will buy a muzzle, leash him to a martingale collar, and have a fence and an electric fence between him and the horse. that way, nobody will get hurt if things go south.

i will also review my positive dog training books to see if there’s anything applicable in there.

i talked to the dog’s owner tonight and explained the situation. she sounded very upset. i feel bad for her, and for the dog. i told her we may or may not try one more thing to assess if the dog could be made trustworthy, but that she should plan to come pick him up as soon as possible.

my husband thinks this is a fantastic dog who he’d be thrilled to have for the next ten years. and my husband has never been much of a dog person before our last dog. this is why i want to give this new dog another chance to show that he’s redeemable.

if it was just me, i’d send him back yesterday. but maybe i’ll see something different tomorrow.

[Horsegal984]

Send him back. Period. Don’t try something different tomorrow. Because what if he does well? Hubby gets excited that doggy is going to be perfect tomorrow and doesn’t hold the leash tight enough next weekend. Girl riding her horse past the barn is killed when her horse panics at the dog hanging off its haunches. Now what? Can you sleep at night?

I’m a Cattle Dog person, I wouldn’t have anything else. But I wouldn’t have this one within miles of a horse. Send him back. Tell owner to contact ACDRI for help finding him a good sport home. They have contacts across the country.

[aliceo]

[QUOTE=Horsegal984;8447925]
Send him back. Period. Don’t try something different tomorrow. Because what if he does well? Hubby gets excited that doggy is going to be perfect tomorrow and doesn’t hold the leash tight enough next weekend. Girl riding her horse past the barn is killed when her horse panics at the dog hanging off its haunches. Now what? Can you sleep at night?

I’m a Cattle Dog person, I wouldn’t have anything else. But I wouldn’t have this one within miles of a horse. Send him back. Tell owner to contact ACDRI for help finding him a good sport home. They have contacts across the country.[/QUOTE]

i just looked at the ACDRI website. it looks like they have some wonderful dogs! just by looking in the eyes of these dogs i can see there is something different/wrong with the dog we have here. i think he is some kind of aberration, really, perhaps a throwback to the dingo ancestor.

i just texted the dog’s owner with the ACDRI web address and asked if she can come for him tomorrow.

:heart silently breaking:

no matter how right this is, it still hurts, especially so soon after losing our wonderful dog only a few weeks ago.

[threedogpack]

@aliceo;8447845

we have decided to try reintroducing him to the horse in a very structured way, setting him up to succeed. he could have behaved like he did for any number of reasons i don’t understand. i wish any of you had been there so that i had another pair of eyes to assess what happened.

use your phone to video the training sessions, or if you have a camcorder, that. You can prop your phone on a fence or post or bucket turned upside down.

will buy a muzzle, leash him to a martingale collar, and have a fence and an electric fence between him and the horse. that way, nobody will get hurt if things go south.

The martingale collar would be good, but I’d also consider a head halter.

i will also review my positive dog training books to see if there’s anything applicable in there.

a link to Dr. Sophia Yin working with a dog/dog aggressive dog. This can certainly be adapted to dog/horse interactions. Tho I would control the environment better and keep the dog under threshold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUCl6ndLN7Q

this one could also be adapted, from Donna Hill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWU7wl_wp2A

[threedogpack]

I posted my last reply, without knowing you had reversed your decision. I am going to leave it up anyway, in case it will help someone else.

[cowboymom]

Do you look on montanapets.org? Dillon always has a lot of great dogs and they’re a good shelter.

This list too https://www.facebook.com/groups/MontanaPetsForAdoptionRehoming/

Found this girl, she doesn’t look built for speed right now but she’s post-puppies. :lol: These rez dog organizations always have a lot of dogs and such an uphill battle. another group https://www.facebook.com/RezQDogs/?fref=ts. She has such a sweet face…I’m going to end up with another one with all this searching!

https://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/34017590?utm_campaign=social+share+button&utm_medium=social+media&utm_source=facebook&utm_content=adopt

This group always has a bunch of great dogs that they put a lot of time into; I know a horse trainer that fosters a lot of their heelers: http://www.herdofwy.com/availabledogs.html

In Livingston http://staffordanimalshelter.org/available-pets/

Not sure if you’re near Bozeman but there are a few really good trainers there.

I know I recently saw a heeler on one of my facebook lists but can’t find it now… will keep looking.

So tempted on a few of the dogs I’ve seen on these sites…

3dogpack, I saved that information, good stuff. :yes: