3dog, yes please leave that info up. it may come in handy.
i probably should start a new thread, but…
your thoughts on the best way to introduce a grown rescue dog to horses?
[QUOTE=aliceo;8448015]
3dog, yes please leave that info up. it may come in handy.
i probably should start a new thread, but…
your thoughts on the best way to introduce a grown rescue dog to horses?[/QUOTE]
First, don’t take a new dog anywhere without being on leash, as that one seemed to be a new dog and in a new place off leash, when he attacked the horse?
“Train and confine” until you are very sure you know what your dog is going to do in any place.
I agree with you that what the dog did was really not what a normal dog would do, but we are not there to see exactly what happened.
Get the dog used to a new environment where he can’t do wrong.
Even the best trained dog benefits when we prevent bad situations.
As already said, make some situations about training the dog, like going to the barn with that idea, take the time some times to make it about the dog, not working with the horses only.
Then put the dog up when you can’t pay it attention.
Training herding dogs, we train then tie up or put up, don’t let them to their own devices, especially when new or young.
They learn from that also.
Your question makes me think I must be very lucky with the dogs I have gotten. 5 of my last 8 dogs have been adult rescues (or strays who stayed), and the other 3 were rescue puppies. All have been fine with the horses, and none had any particular introduction to the horses, they all just fell into the routine (my horses live at home). And 4 of the 8 were herding breeds or crosses.
Maybe when they first arrived, I would bring them out for a nose-to-nose meet on a leash with the horses in their stalls, but after that, they just followed me around, and got a stern “back off” if they got too close while leading. Then while riding in the arena, a loud “out” if they came in with us, and that’s about it! Even the current puppy got the idea after one riding lesson!
The dogs do go into the pasture with the horses, but mostly to hunt small critters or eat horse poop, no chasing of the horses.
So no formal training, just enforcement of expectations, I guess.
I was given a dog with such a strong prey drive that he still tries to bite the horses hocks despite being seriously injured. He is now trained to an electronic collar and I can “buzz” him to remind him to stay away from the horses but he still tries (and this has been a problem for 5 years).
RE training aggression out of a dog…would you try to train aggression into a dog? Take a meek gentle dog and try to make it growl at animals or people or lunge at/bite them? Either way it is going against an animals’ innate nature and the problem is under stress or when a certain situation triggers an instinct, the dog reverts to its true nature at that moment.
I’ve read that Hollywood and even law enforcement dog trainers can’t get their highly trained dogs to be 100% consistent /obedient 100% of the time. The most they say they aim for is 90% . Which means 10% or more of the time a dog with hard prey drive or innate aggression may act out and ignore their training.
First…you need to decide how invested you are in this dog, and how willing you are to spend time to train him. If it’s too much time/effort, like everyone else said there are so many wonderful dogs sitting in shelters, I’m sure you could find another.
We got a rescue dog this summer. 4 year old GSD, spent 18 months in a shelter, adopted and returned twice. I had my reservations, but hubby fell in love with him. He went after one of my horses the very first time he was off leash, it was very quick and seemed very aggressive and it terrified me. None of our other dogs showed that sort of aggression, the previous GSD’s would attempt to herd, but not leap on the horse like he did. Hubby tends to live in the fictional world of “nothing bad is gonna happen, you worry too much”, so there were a couple more unpleasant incidences, but never any blood thankfully. 
It only took a bit of training and now he completely ignores the horses. Once he realized that they were “ours” and not to be touched, he doesn’t even look at them. I know that ACD’s are bred to be very assertive with livestock, so you’re dealing with a different kind of dog, but it is possible you can train him him to leave the horse alone. IF you want to.
[QUOTE=chism;8448090]
I know that ACD’s are bred to be very assertive with livestock, so you’re dealing with a different kind of dog, but it is possible you can train him him to leave the horse alone. IF you want to.[/QUOTE]
ACDs are not inherently any more aggressive than other herding breeds. They are more stubborn and “harder” in that they don’t back down. But any dog that is actually aggressive with the livestock is not a wanted dog. An ACD can be trained to herd, or not to, the same as any other herding breed. They’re only as assertive as they need to be, which is often more than a BC since they’re working cows. If you train them on sheep they work very similarly.
With that said, this is NOT a normal ACD. I would be willing to bet that this is either a dog who is just NOT mentally sound at all, or a dog who has been traumatized and has an extreme fear of horses. Either way, the OP’s DH isn’t good at being firm and setting boundaries 100%, so this is not the dog for them.
I would return him. I’m not certain you could ever expect him to do the things you need from a dog. Or at least not without more training energy and time than you have available.
As a 15 year owner of multiple ACDs (most of them rescues) and a horse/livestock owner, this particular ACD is not for you. He would be much happier in an ACD savvy home with someone who can take their time with training. Some day he might be reliable around horses but it would take a lot of dedicated training time with no guarantees. Shock collars and Cesar Millan methods do not work well with ACDs. It will either piss them off or shut them down until they can’t take it anymore and will snap.
Threedogpack - I think, based on your alligator video comment, that we are on the same FB group. 
i slept on it. i remembered that one of the parameters i set for adopting a new dog is that it MUST NOT have any horse issues. that is a dealbreaker. i will not commit to a dog that is horse aggressive, even if that behavior could be retrained.
i called the owner. she’s on her way to get him. i have already shed a few tears. DH was planning a hike up a mountain with him today. he’s disappointed, but i KNOW there are lots of dogs that will make a great hiking companion for him AND a good riding companion, too.
and, i have decided i am going to wait a while before trying this again. i think i need more time to grieve the dog we lost to cancer. i thought having a new dog would make the pain go away. but instead it reopened the wound that was starting to heal. i need more time.
it hurts to let him go, yes, but it also i think will be a relief. it just isn’t a good fit.
and next time, i will adopt from a shelter or rescue organization. we were lucky that the dog’s owner is ethical and does what she says she will do. but it could just have easily ended up with us stuck with the dog.
and for those of you who have said the dog should have been on a leash when he bit my horse: he WAS on a leash!
[QUOTE=aliceo;8448410]
i slept on it. i remembered that one of the parameters i set for adopting a new dog is that it MUST NOT have any horse issues. that is a dealbreaker. i will not commit to a dog that is horse aggressive, even if that behavior could be retrained.
i called the owner. she’s on her way to get him. i have already shed a few tears. DH was planning a hike up a mountain with him today. he’s disappointed, but i KNOW there are lots of dogs that will make a great hiking companion for him AND a good riding companion, too.
and, i have decided i am going to wait a while before trying this again. i think i need more time to grieve the dog we lost to cancer. i thought having a new dog would make the pain go away. but instead it reopened the wound that was starting to heal. i need more time.
it hurts to let him go, yes, but it also i think will be a relief. it just isn’t a good fit.
and next time, i will adopt from a shelter or rescue organization. we were lucky that the dog’s owner is ethical and does what she says she will do. but it could just have easily ended up with us stuck with the dog.
and for those of you who have said the dog should have been on a leash when he bit my horse: he WAS on a leash![/QUOTE]
Sorry about missing he was on a leash, that makes what happened even more complicated to figure out, but it is not good that he even went there to attack the horse.
It is a terrible situation to be in, you get attached right off, so many dreams and wanting to make this work so much, then some times, it just doesn’t and is a heartbreaking situation.
Waiting until you feel better is a very good idea.
Took me four years after my best ever border collie was killed by a rattler before I took a chance again on having a dog to care for.
Some times, it just is not easy, especially when things don’t go right.
Hoping some day you have good news again.
[QUOTE=cowboymom;8447993]
Do you look on montanapets.org? Dillon always has a lot of great dogs and they’re a good shelter.
This list too https://www.facebook.com/groups/MontanaPetsForAdoptionRehoming/
Found this girl, she doesn’t look built for speed right now but she’s post-puppies. :lol: These rez dog organizations always have a lot of dogs and such an uphill battle. another group https://www.facebook.com/RezQDogs/?fref=ts. She has such a sweet face…I’m going to end up with another one with all this searching!
This group always has a bunch of great dogs that they put a lot of time into; I know a horse trainer that fosters a lot of their heelers: http://www.herdofwy.com/availabledogs.html
In Livingston http://staffordanimalshelter.org/available-pets/
Not sure if you’re near Bozeman but there are a few really good trainers there.
I know I recently saw a heeler on one of my facebook lists but can’t find it now… will keep looking.
So tempted on a few of the dogs I’ve seen on these sites…
3dogpack, I saved that information, good stuff. :yes:[/QUOTE]
cowboymom, thanks so much for this! and yes, i have noticed that there are some great looking dogs in dillon. i’ve been on petfinder and montanapets daily since our dog died. and we’re already approved for adoption at herd of wyoming. there hasn’t been much to look at. the dogs we were interested in at HERD are all in colorado. too far to drive. i’ve gone to shelters in missoula and anaconda and helena–nothing suitable.
but i am going to wait. i believe my dearly departed dog will bring me the right one when it is the right time. though if you happen to hear of the right sort of dog in need, do message me.
thanks again.
I’m sorry for you, I know this isn’t an easy decision, but it is the right one for you AND the dog. He deserves a home where he will be a good fit too, not square peg/round hole.
I agree with rescues, you will have more to fall back on if it doesn’t work out.
[QUOTE=Horsegal984;8448345]
ACDs are not inherently any more aggressive than other herding breeds. They are more stubborn and “harder” in that they don’t back down. But any dog that is actually aggressive with the livestock is not a wanted dog. An ACD can be trained to herd, or not to, the same as any other herding breed. They’re only as assertive as they need to be, which is often more than a BC since they’re working cows. If you train them on sheep they work very similarly.
With that said, this is NOT a normal ACD. I would be willing to bet that this is either a dog who is just NOT mentally sound at all, or a dog who has been traumatized and has an extreme fear of horses. Either way, the OP’s DH isn’t good at being firm and setting boundaries 100%, so this is not the dog for them.[/QUOTE]
fwiw… i said “assertive” not aggressive.
[QUOTE=aliceo;8448420]
cowboymom, thanks so much for this! and yes, i have noticed that there are some great looking dogs in dillon. i’ve been on petfinder and montanapets daily since our dog died. and we’re already approved for adoption at herd of wyoming. there hasn’t been much to look at. the dogs we were interested in at HERD are all in colorado. too far to drive. i’ve gone to shelters in missoula and anaconda and helena–nothing suitable.
but i am going to wait. i believe my dearly departed dog will bring me the right one when it is the right time. though if you happen to hear of the right sort of dog in need, do message me.
thanks again.[/QUOTE]
Alex from Three Rivers Horse Training is near Billings now I think? Formerly near Bozeman… She has the dogs a lot and might be able to arrange a ride from CO or help. https://www.facebook.com/Three-Rivers-Horse-Training-314053161010/?fref=ts
I’ll keep my radar up and look back through my other ideas. We’ll find the dog that is waiting for you and your DH! :yes:
I’m sorry…but I’d be at the vets euthanizing him. That behaviour is dangerous in the extreme. What if he doesn’t like another person (he ignores your SO…that’s a reason to get rid of him…what sort of dominance over him will occur some time in the future…and is it worth waiting to find out?).
Sorry, not worth the risk for you or someone else in the future. Sure wouldn’t trust this dog around kids either.
I’ll keep my radar up and look back through my other ideas. We’ll find the dog that is waiting for you and your DH!
cbm, you are so kind. thank you so much!
[QUOTE=Trakehner;8448731]
I’m sorry…but I’d be at the vets euthanizing him. That behaviour is dangerous in the extreme. What if he doesn’t like another person (he ignores your SO…that’s a reason to get rid of him…what sort of dominance over him will occur some time in the future…and is it worth waiting to find out?).
Sorry, not worth the risk for you or someone else in the future. Sure wouldn’t trust this dog around kids either.[/QUOTE]
a dog that goes after horses is not necessarily a danger to people or children. this dog is kind and friendly around people, if a bit mouthy, but he is still a youngster.
i think euthanizing him is more than a bit extreme. how much experience do you have with dogs?
i would have liked to have tried the methods in 3dogs’ videos and maybe they would have worked. but i know i am not up for the responsibility and the inherent liability for a dog i am not yet committed to.
if it was a dog i already had and was bonded to, i would move heaven and earth to make it work. this isn’t that dog.
I have read this whole thread with interest. I see OP has returned the dog <hugs> and will be waiting a while longer before getting another dog. How are you doing? Did the owner pick up the pup?
Because this thread has some great suggestions, I’m going to add this suggestion when one gets a new dog, especially an adult.
The two-week shutdown protocol. This sounds harsh and a little antiquated. I’m my recent experience (I loosened up some rules as I saw fit), it is a kindness, sets up the new dog for success, and avoids some of the common pitfalls. I like this compilation of little stories from a project where dog trainers pulled shelter dogs and compared notes.
In CBM’s post where she linked rescues, the second one (with a long list of dogs) had two dogs that they state are already living with horses and good with them. Seems the best way to ensure a dog that will be good with horses is to take one on that already lives with/is used to horses (or other hooved livestock), second best way a more mild mannered dog easy going in nature.
Best of luck, this was a hard decision but one that is better off in beginning, one things animals have going for them is honesty, they show us their true selves for better or worse and usually within a rather short time. Sometimes we don’t want to see clearly what they show us (or deal with it).
