"Owner" vs "Caregiver"

I had to take an under-the-weather terrier to the vet’s today and leave him while I went to an appointment. I was given the “Patient Drop-off” Form and almost failed the first question, which was:

Caregiver’s Name _______________

I wondered why they had a special form for pet-sitters to use when it dawned on me that they were using the word ‘caregiver’ in place of ‘owner’.

HSUS, PETA and other animal rights orgs are pushing for “caregiver” over “owner” because ‘caregivers’ can be held to different standards of care than owners. Sort of “what a reasonable person would do” vs “it’s my property to do with what I wish”

The vet also informed me she would no longer euthanize for “treatable” conditions, ie. a pet has arthritis and owner cannot afford/ chooses not subject pet to mega medications for years; or a dog has heartworm and owner chooses euthanaisia over treatment to try to cure it (many dogs die while treating for advanced heartworm).

Fortunately, I’m able to treat my dog at home (which she’s supporting by sending home meds) and it’s unclear if Spider’s condition is life-threatening. I say fortunately, because she flat out told me I’d have to take my dog elsewhere to put down if I couldn’t/wouldn’t go $1000 for exploratory! surgery. (sorry can’t do that).

Your opinions please on “owner” vs “caregiver” and the issue of standard each may be held to. Please no opinions on whether I should go for the surgery regardless of cost.

When you own an animal you do the best you can for them to keep them comfortable and happy and healthy.
I believe your vet is a bit “misguided”. Bottom line, if the owner can’t afford a 1k surgery, she is putting them thru a horrific guilt trip and the poor animal suffers.
I did the same (unfortunately) with my sweet old dog, the vet gave me a guilt trip and I went for the exploratory surgery, even though my dog had cancer and the prognosis was pretty much hopeless as it had metastasized into all her internal organs and she was hemorrhaging internally, but he dangled a “carrot” in front of me, and like a fool, I fell for it.
He put her down during the surgery, as (duh!) she was hopeless.
He still charged me $1400, I still kick myself for letting her die on the operating table, she should have been in my arms when she went.
As you can see, even though this happened many years ago, I still am dealing with the guilt, I should have gone with my first instinct. She told me she was ready to go.
Don’t let the vet take your choice away, and don’t let her feed you a guilt trip. YOU are the owner/caregiver. I think the caregiver thing is just a PC thing, who is paying the bills here? Oh, the “owner” does…hmmm, smacks of “semantics” to me.
Hope your terrier feels better, I will be praying for him.

“Owner” vs. “Caregiver” – I like to think I am both. But if I had to choose just one, I’d go with “Owner” because I would not want anyone else to be able to take the ability to make decisions out of my hands.

I have to weigh in with everyone else and say, GET A NEW VET. Good people are out there. I have a vet who I respect and admire greatly, and who is helping me through a very difficult time because of his realistic outlook and empathetic demeanor.

Right now my beloved 11 1/2 year old Rottweiler is dying of cancer. I am one of those people who has never cared what it cost to fix a problem when he or my other dogs have had them. I read somewhere once that if the average dog lives to be 11 years old, the average amount spent on the dog during his lifetime (not counting purchase cost of the dog) is $14,000!! Well, I’ve often joked that Jesse is way over his limit. He’s had arthritis for several years now and Kryswyn’s right – the meds (Cosequin!) are expensive. Among other “procedures” he’s had done in his life, he had a cancerous toe removed a few years ago and just last year had a benign lump removed in a simple operation that turned into a nightmare recovery period (the incision wouldn’t stay closed). But I chose to have these operations done because I knew my dog had plenty of life left in him although by most standards he’s considered “old” for his breed. He rebounded to his normal self after all these scares and justified my decision to treat him.

However, just weeks ago, we learned he now has lymphoma. He had gone from a dog who lived for his mealtime and his walks to a dog who was having trouble getting up and who would barely eat a thing in a matter of weeks. My vet knew immediately when he felt his lymph nodes that he had lymphoma, and a blood test confirmed that it was in his blood also. He told me my options: get further testing and possible chemotherapy treatments done at Angell Memorial, or put him down. I could tell that his personal opinion was that this dog has been through enough in his life, and I was relieved that I was not to be criticized if I also didn’t want to put my dog through any more. I didn’t like the idea of the remainder of Jesse’s life to be spent driving back and forth to Boston (over an hour each way) for treatments which likely wouldn’t help him and which would be incredibly expensive to boot. Worst of all, HE WOULDN’T UNDERSTAND that I was trying to get him better. He’d be confused and sad, and I wouldn’t want to leave him there for the required overnight.

My father, who Jesse lived with for a couple of years and who still loves him like a child, was having trouble accepting that I didn’t want to subject the dog to any more. I appreciate that he wanted to exercise all options before we made any decisions. So we took Jesse for an ultrasound last week and it was confirmed that the cancer is in his liver and his spleen. My vet said that it is too extensive to even consider treatment, which made the decision for us. We will keep him comfortable until he is in any pain, and then I will have to do what I have dreaded for years – let him go.

The point of this long story is just this – I have a vet who could easily have said, “Go get chemotherapy.” He told me that, had I taken him to Angell Memorial, they most likely would say that they would treat him. But because he is compassionate and humane, he wanted to save ME and JESSE from a fruitless effort. He has told me that the dog is not in any pain right now – just very, very tired. He has also told me that Jesse has a very strong heart, and that he will not do me the favor of going quietly in his sleep. He told me that I am going to have to be the one to decide when to let him go. He then told me to call him at any time, day or night, when I know that time has come.

Thanks for letting me share my story – sorry I kind of got away from the topic. This thread really struck a chord right now and I can’t imagine my vet having said to me that he wouldn’t euthanize my dog because he’s still technically “treatable”.

You know, I recently had to have a beloved dog put because of a crippling illness. Not an easy choice and not a problem that throwing more money at the situation would have resolved. However,I was able to give the animal a death with dignity. My father had a diagnosis of Parkinson’s dease and senile dementia at a relatively early age. In his moments of lucidity, he would beg me to shoot him. Regretfully, a death with a measure of dignity was not an option for him.

I really wasn’t going to post on this issue because it has made me so sad, but I decided to because owning a farm with many horses and dogs, etc you have many hard decisions to address.
I have been blessed by the greatest
vet there is, who has come out at 1:00 in the morning to put my old horse to sleep after he had a stroke. He was 42 and went down and I knew he was not going to get up this time and when I called, he came with no questions asked. This same vet came and stayed with me for hours until we decided to transport my 17-year old horse for colic surgery that had a displacement and the doctors at Leesburg were incredible as well and it took 3 years to pay the bill. This same vet did acupuncture on my daughter’s dog that had a cancerous brain tumor on Easter Sunday to help aid in her pain (this was before the diagnosis at a small animal vet’s) and wouldn’t take any money for it.
This man is a humanitarian who cares about animals. Just today when he was here at the farm, he said that no one really cares about the animals anymore and this is the saddest thing for we see the new vet school graduates only wanting the easy research job or a 9-5 or a parttime and horses and animals don’t always get sick then.
Just wanted to say that no one should settle for a veterinarian that does not have your animal’s as well as your best interest at heart. They are out there and they would appreciate knowing that you appreciate them.
My vet is Dr. John Stott of Lothian, MD and he is the BEST and believe me, I appreciate him every day!

A very neat story about one of our local veterinarians from the Daily Local News in West Chester, PA
[URL=http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=1040936&BRD=1671&PAG=461&dept_id=17782&rfi=6]http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=1040936&BRD=1671&PAG=461&dept_id=17782&rfi=6[/ URL]

Legally speaking i am both owner and caregiver, because I not only own my own horses and pets, but I also own my own farm/pet sitting business, for which I carry a $25,000 insurance policy against care custody and control, not to mention another rider for liability. I am a caregiver if you leave your farm/pet in my care while you are at an out of town show, and I am the caregiver who must sign the authorization forms in order to obtain care for your animal should he/she become ill or injured in your absence. I have a contract which the client must sign, which gives the veterinarian permission to stabilize the animal until he hears from the owner, and prevents me from getting stuck with a vet bill for someone else’s animal. In lieu of a contract, the veterinarian may turn away a pet sitter (caretaker) for fear of getting tied up in an arguement over who should pay for the bill, and very possibly getting stuck with a no pay situation in the end. Professionally speaking, that’s the difference between a caretaker and an owner. Check out the pet sitting forums on the web (www.google.com will get you there) and the horror stories will amaze you.

[This message has been edited by Chief2 (edited 11-07-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Chief2 (edited 11-07-2000).]

Get a new vet. This one is a real fruit loop. I trust that most people love their pets and do right by them. I can understand how it could be hard on a vet to put down animal who could be made better, but it is unconscionable to force people to prolong the suffering of a beloved friend. PETA is pushing for “animal guardians” out here.

Kryswyn, I hope your dog gets better

Not every vet can serve your needs-get rid of this one. But she will find her population group to service. What we all forget is that LIFE IS LIMITED-WE ALL WILL DIE. By the way, where did this one graduate from. Can you call and ask and let us know please.

I wonder, would the vet want to take in everything that is treatable and pay for everything and do it all herself? That is rediculous! I can’t see spending $1000 on a dog I spent less than half of that on 13 years ago! If my poor pooch is suffering, I would much rather have him put down than to put him through the stress of surgery and risking that he might not make it because he’s old! If the treatment is reasonably priced and not something I have to do every few hours (I have to work and pay the bills you know!) then I would have to have my dog put down.

My other dog had to be put down a couple years ago because he was getting senile and aggressive. I opened the front door to talk to someone and he attacked MY leg and left a scar. We called the breeder to see if maybe we could find a home for him, but she said that he needed to be put down, that at his age (11) it was not going to get any better. I think I made the right choice because heaven forbid the next door neighbors 2 year old son opened our front door (which he does frequently) and got eaten by my dog! And this was not a big dog, he was only 20 lbs.

Sorry for rambling, but I believe that owners have the right to have the animal put down for these kinds of reasons. It’s hard, but you should have the option.

Wileycoyote I had to respond. My vet told me that a few years ago he went to a convention with a few thousand vets. The speaker asked how many of them owned an animal (dog, cat horse, bird etc…) less than half raised their hand. Of course my vet has more than his fair share but he was shocked and so was I.

I don’t know what to think about it. Vet school is just as expensive and harder to get into to than Med school. I think most vets who get into it at least start out with a love for animals. I think they deserve to make a good living, but I am disturbed and wonder if some of them are motivated by the right reasons. When I was a kid I foxhunted with my vet and he taught me more about general horse care and a horse’s way of going… I don’t know that a Vet who had never owned and ridden horses could do that. Same with my dog. My vet has had Labradors in his family for generations… It would be like hiring a dentist who had no teeth!

The vet must love the animal and respect the owner.

I has serious medical problems with a wonderful horse I owned a few years ago. My vet, an intelligent and compassionate man, found the cause of his problems and suggested we find a specialist who would be up-to-date on the very lastest options for care and treatment.

I sent him to a very well known, and highly reputed, facility in New England. I was told he should be put down so, “I could at least get my money out of him.” (he was insured).

That day, I removed him from that facility and sent him to another facility best known for their work with hooves. They recommended a facility in Virginia, where there was specialist on the cutting edge of osteo (sp?-bone) treatments. I sent him to Virginia.

I didn’t do all of this so I would have this horse to use as a hunter. I did this because I wanted someone to tell me they could make him pasture sound and I would then be able to provide him a decent quality of life as the best groomed, most spoiled lawn ornament ever.

Ultimately, I had to destroy him. He was crippled and would have spent the rest of his life (he was five) stall bound and heavily medicated because of the pain. I shouldn’t say I had to destroy him- he was legally my property to do with what I wished- but I felt I couldn’t condemn him to a life in a 12x12 box with a constant Morphine drip at age five. It was a life sentence.

In the end, I had to do what was recommended by the first specialists. However, their callous approach about the life of my special guy was intolerable. Those people wouldn’t even discuss other options for him. He was nothing more than dollar bills on four legs with a tail to them.

Medical care is expensive, for all animals including the human ones. Through this experience I have learned that all medicine should be administered with compassion and respect for the patient encompassing the impact of procedures and treatments on the quality of the patients life.

Kryswyn - How is Spider doing? Really good I hope.

I wonder if the phraseology might have something to do with changing laws regarding animal abuse. The term “owner” is consistent with the legal concept of an animal as mere “chattel,” without any restrictions on how it was to be treated. The change in semantics may be a reflection of the changing laws in this area.

It sounds, Kryswyn, like your vet may be taking things to an extreme. I can understand allowing a vet to refuse to euthanize a healthy animal. However, if the outlook for the animal is grim and the owner (excuse me, “caregiver”), is unwilling to subject the animal to further medical procedures with an uncertain outcome, I agree with you that the caregiver should have the discretion to make the decision.

I only wish we could be as merciful with humans.

I can guarantee you that if my dog were ever to bite someone, the legal system won’t give a hoot about whether they serve the “owner” or the “caregiver” the legal papers when I get taken to court.

So why should your vet get to make that distinction?

[This message has been edited by Canter (edited 11-03-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by devildog20:
I wonder, would the vet want to take in everything that is treatable and pay for everything and do it all herself? That is rediculous! I can’t see spending $1000 on a dog I spent less than half of that on 13 years ago!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

DEVILDOG–I love your first comment about if the vet would take the dog in and do it herself…,
but I absolutely find the second statement horrible. If we had the money, if it seemed like a better then 50/50 chance of survival and no extended misery, it doesn’t matter what the original price was. I believe your statement is the mentality of a business and not a caregiver.

[This message has been edited by pat on the back (edited 11-03-2000).]

I have a 15 year old best friend and I worry that I might not be selfless enough to do the right thing when the time comes. I have read a quote to the effect of “We think of death as the enemy. But at some point, death is not the enemy, it is a friend. A end to pain and suffereing, a release from a mortal body that used to run and play and jump and now locks the soul inside when it is time to set the soul free.”

Does anyone have the original of this quote?

I am surprised that, on a horse list, the issue of insurance and giving the final say on euthanasia over to the insurance adjuster, has not come up. We had a filly who broke her knee on the track 2 months ago. The insurance company would not allow her to be put down–she had to go through 2 surgeries and much pain before her body gave out and made the decision on its own. I do not know if I will continue to insure horses (but she was a valuable racehorse and had a future as a broodmare–so it was a tough call in this case.)

Pam

Cool story, SoEasy!

And, here here, Slugger!

[This message has been edited by Duffy (edited 11-04-2000).]

Thanks for asking. Sadly I must report that Spider died the Sunday after getting ill. He began vomiting diarrhea, and aspirated some of it. He died shortly thereafter.

A follow up call to the vet with a description of Spider’s actions led her to believe it was in fact an obstruction, possibly bone or plastic. I received a sympathy card from the vet hospital and they made a donation to our local shelter in his name. That was a pleasant surprise. On a happier note, Chapin had 3 boy pups last week so the spinning wheel has come around again.

Kryswyn, thank you for sharing this and alerting us. DEFINITELY get a new vet. What a nice way for vets to insist on very expensive treatments to fill their coffers under the guise of ‘loving’ animals. BS!!! It has no regard for a)reality, in that as medicine becomes greatly advanced, costs become greatly advanced and it may just be financially impossible for loving owners to pay for treatment, and b)it TOTALLY disregards an animal’s pain and suffering by in some cases continuing treatment for long periods of time when an animal is suffering.

Animals don’t know “If I take this medicine I will feel better in 12 weeks.” They only know the ‘now’. For humans, we can submit to painful treatments knowing the hoped-for end result, for animals who can’t think of feeling better far ahead, they only know the tremendous agony they are feeling now, day after day and week after week through ‘treatment’. Sometimes it may be perhaps the most loving, the most merciful, to end the suffering of the creature you love. Your vet totally disregards this mercy. How cruel. Don’t let them baboozle you with this nonsense!