Owners not prioritizing soundness

with a young horse with a known injury ( the kick) I would go aggressive.

As a vet told me once, do it the right way, now , or pay for it in the long term.

if the owners are having you train to reach some show or sale goal, if the horse is off at that time, they lose.

the horse will not forget its training. In fact a young horse like this ( started as a 2yo?) could likely benefit from a month or two off.

we had a long thread here, recently , about one of our members struggling with teaching a young student on a notably off horses. The parent owners had to be compelled to get diagnostics.

The owners say they will not blame you if things go wrong, but I suspect you will blame yourself. I bet many of us , in the same situation, would feel guilt and sadness that we did not do more

Perhaps you have to take a stand as a professional that you cannot , in good conscious, continue to push this young horse into more severe disability

7 Likes

It seems pretty simple to me. If you think the horse is lame and you don’t think it’s reasonable to continue riding it, then don’t ride it. The only actions you can control here are your own.

One of the most important life lessons that we all have to learn is the one about the black hole of responsibility without authority. This is a perfect example - as a rider who cares about the horses you ride, you feel responsible for the horse’s welfare, but you have no authority to do the things you think should be done to ensure its welfare.

“Responsibility without authority” situations pretty much always end badly and really, the only thing you can do about those situations is extract yourself from them. And in my experience, it doesn’t really matter if the “responsibility” is something imposed on you by someone else or something you have taken upon yourself.

26 Likes

serious life quote. applies to a lot of life and one I wish I had head about 40 years ago

11 Likes

You pretty much described my line of daily work that doesn’t involve horses.

7 Likes

that was my situation as well

it was harder to find support and encouragement in the 80s

It takes courage to take a stand and make a self centered change.

I am in this exact same situation right now. Just took my mare to the local university vet that uses the Lameness Locator system, and we could not narrow down the cause of her NQR-ness that has been ongoing for 6 mo. She has been completely off during that time, and vet told me to put her back into work for 8 weeks to see if something more obvious comes up at next check. I will say that I have had her evaluated every time a subtle lameness has come up, and 2 out of the 3 times we were able to find an issue to treat. I am only returning her to work this time under a vets guidance. I agree that sometimes a subtle lameness can turn into a bigger issue if ignored.

5 Likes

this.

Personally, I would not ride or work a lame/NQT 3 yr old that was known to have been kicked in the hock. I also would not be ground driving/lounging the horse in circles if I was going to work the horse. I would only work in straight lines and depending on where you are and what the facility has, that may not be possible.

If I was in your position, I would walk away from the situation.

This is just my opinion.

14 Likes

I’ve seen this. I have found that eventually the only thing you can do is suggest it is not the right program for the horse.

Some people are willing to work an obviously NQR horse. That’s fine, especially for something like stifle weak stifles…but what is it teaching the horse to have to work through unevenness? That work is pain? That isn’t going to end well. It doesn’t sound like the injury was even Xrayed for chips.

6 Likes

this may not even be an issue arising from the kick but rather an issue of breed conformation , breed tendency and the young age for the level of work.

this is where your ethics as a professional comes in to play.

I’ve been in this situation many times. There are some situations where the horse can improve with work but not certainly not all.

If you’re uncertain if you are improving the horse, then you need to communicate your concerns with the owner (as you have) and state you will work with the guidance of a vet. This is what an ethical trainer would do.

If the owner isn’t willing to do that, then they aren’t serious about the issues and they aren’t willing to consider your concerns so you need to move on.

Good reputations are built on trainers who do good for the horse and are immovable on that aspect.

13 Likes

Lots of great points already made that I agree with so won’t repeat.

If you are doing this because you enjoy it, do you still enjoy working with a horse you can see is struggling because of an issue that isn’t being addressed?

Especially with a young horse. It’s truly a pleasure to ride a young, recently started horse horse that was correctly started and is healthy, sound and happy to work. The last one I sat on felt like butter. One that hasn’t yet learned to brace against stiffness, pain or soreness.

4 Likes

@Rosewatt, I have a little different suggestion.

My horse was off for an injury that took a year to find and a year to heal. I was terrified about bringing her back to work - that I would overlook another injury.

I bought the Equestic device and started using it. I bought one of the cheaper subscriptions that allowed me to get more data. Using it helped me a lot: I felt that I had something besides my own feeling about whether my horse was even, etc. - a monitor.

It took me awhile to be able to understand the information from the device, but even at the beginning, it helped. I felt more confident with that information. It gave me more evidence when I did have a setback - something I could show my vet.

It’s very easy to set up and to use. You can use the device on multiple horses - a higher $ subscription will track them for you, but you can do it yourself manually if you don’t want to pay for that.

This.

I once broke a young horse because the owner was pushing for the horse to start work early (before 3). I figured that if I was the one doing it, I could offset some of the speed the owner was pushing for (there was no real reason for anything to be done asap - the non-riding owner just wanted to see her being ridden and thought it was time). I took things slow, spreading out the very gentle rides, and doing what I could to push back against how fast the owner wanted everything to go. I figured that if I stopped working the horse, the owner would use someone else (and I knew who), and that person would push much faster and harder.

Despite my attempts to go easy on the horse, she developed back pain (draft x Arabian cross, and I think her vertebrae were just too bulky at that age for her short Arabian back), flipped over on me twice, and it took a lot of convincing for the owner to agree to have her seen by a vet (and the owner didn’t follow through on the vet’s recommendations).

It didn’t matter that I was trying to go easier on the horse than someone else would have. The horse’s body still wasn’t ready to do the little that I was asking of her. I wish I had walked away sooner, but I did walk away after that vet visit.

I completely understand trying to do what you feel is better for the horse, but sometimes you just can’t win, especially when you are ultimately not the decision-maker. If you don’t agree with doing things a certain way, it’s better not to do it at all rather than try to find some middle ground that ultimately will not significantly help the horse.

9 Likes

ultimately this is the fork in the road for many professionals; in all walks of life

2 Likes

@Rosewatt, you have the horse’s best interests in mind, and that’s commendable. You recognize the limits of your ability to improve the horse’s situation; the question now is do you recognize and honor your own personal boundaries?

Everyone, maybe not every day but many days, have to face these sorts of choices in life and work and all over their lives. I will, or I will not, do X, and step into that situation wholly and own the repercussions.

My mother always taught us that if people don’t agree with you, the important thing is to listen to them. But if you’ve listened to them carefully and you still think that you’re right, then you must have the courage of your convictions.

-Jane Goodall

13 Likes

The only difference you can make here is to refuse to ride the horse. That’s only a choice you can make for yourself. Is the wellbeing of the horse more important than the money?

PS, paid exercise riders, and trainers that have a reputation for working horses past their limits and past soundness don’t have the best reputation around here. I know I wouldn’t hire someone who knowingly worked a lame horse, even if they were told to.

2 Likes

I wouldn’t ride a horse for someone if I thought it was NQR. But I also wouldn’t offer to do in-hand work unless they specifically asked me to. As an owner, I would consider that a little sketchy. It’s one thing to say you’re not comfortable riding and to wait until the horse is sound to book you again. But it changes the situation to both diagnose the problem and suggest getting paid for groundwork to rehab it. I had a trainer do this to me, and long story short, the mystery lameness never healed, and I never stopped needing her special groundwork exercises—that is, until I left, got a new vet, and suddenly my horse was healed. I think she was scared of my horse and felt safer working on the ground. But unlucky for her, I didn’t need to pay anyone else to be scared of my horse from the ground, I could do that all by myself!

2 Likes

Thank you for sharing your experience. It definitely echoes some of my thoughts. It is ultimately a very difficult decision for me to make and you guys have given me lots to think about.

3 Likes

That is another fear here. A) working a NQR horse is very against my own ethics. I have spent enough time with vets that I know the potential consequences of continuing to work a horse without the known diagnosis. B) My plan for the future is to have a small side business for lessons/training. I don’t want anything to damage my reputation, particularly something that doesn’t align with my own ethics.

4 Likes

Thank you for sharing your perspective here. By groundwork, I mean things that avoid weighing the hind end, but exercises that I have been wanting/needing to do… just have not had the time with my schedule in commute. It is nearly a 50 minute drive for me, so usually when it comes down to it, I’ll chose riding because that is the area that most needs work, but I also know groundwork is very important and necessary. Groundwork is also where my roots are, so I can do quite a lot with it, but again, I don’t always have the time for it.

Things like working on the mounting block. More desensitizing. clicker training. in-hand simple lateral exercises. Some light liberty training such as following and exploratory training etc. These will all improve the horse’s behavior/responses undersaddle without riding.

2 Likes