Owners not prioritizing soundness

[Rosewatt]

Yes, that is also what I would do if it were my horse. I am pretty lax with the vet now since my horse has a chronic diagnosis and I have things under good management, but when I was riding, I was very stringent on calling the vet for anything that wasn’t a general consensus. Unfortunately, I do feel that there is a general attitude among horse people to only call the vet when absolutely necessary: if the horse is visibly 3-legged lame or in visible pain. It makes it tricky for subtle lameness like ligament injury to be found until they are almost past the point of recovery.

I try to be as respectful as possible with these things, when working with other horses. Everyone has different standards in when to call the vet and the vet is expensive, so I’m generally not one to tell someone where to spend their money. However, this case and another one I can think of were putting me in an uncomfortable situation. If I push the horse and end up with a more chronic issue or behavioral issues it’s bad on both me and the horse.

I have been finding some owners don’t completely understand the behavioral element either. If I push the horse further past the issues they are exhibiting now, which are relatively minor… this COULD result in a horse with more serious vices that take much longer to fix. Bucking etc. You really never know what you will get if you force a horse to work through pain, undiscovered or not. I had one lady tell me I was scared after riding through a few small bunny hops and refusing to push the horse more. This was after a pattern of issues I had been noticing. The horse was absolutely a FIGHTER and very stubborn, so I knew if I were dealing with a pain issue, it could get messy and I wasn’t about to be crash dummy 2.0. Ended the situation nicely and the horse was found to have some major teeth issues going on a year after (which explained why I was getting that behavior with the bit). We still talk and are friendly. The horse is doing better now, which I am happy to see.

[cheval_convert]

I had one trainer who took on difficult horses. She frequently ended up doing a full work up with the vet. She found one horse with a broken vertebrae in her neck and another with severe kissing spine. Both horses were thankfully retired instead of being forced to work while in undiagnosed pain. (I love this trainer.)

I am a poor boarder in a nice barn. The horses get their chiro, massages, hock injections, etc to keep them feeling good and happy. It’s a nice barn with a good group of owners, and phenomonal barn help. They all make my life easier and better.

[findeight]

Hate to point it out but, based on my experience with similar situations, you are 50/50 at best they are ever going to have the vet out. Chiropractor, maybe but manipulating a recently kicked joint would not be my choice of treatment, especially without imaging.

Owners who keep putting off vet visits for injury/lameness/NQR because it’s “getting better”aren’t going to call them. They’ll make excuses and sweet talk you into working with it and/or cite other people claiming it’s sound maybe even say they have somebody else who will ride it if you won’t.

Just be warned. It has been ever so when riding other people’s horses.

[Rosewatt]

Oh I’m aware this happens; however, I’m willing to give this owner the benefit of the doubt as they are usually pretty good. They also have the vet coming for teeth anyways, so the vet will also be looking at the horse’s soundness on the same call.

[Meshach1]

omg that has been my life! I call it “looking for trouble” My horse feels good under saddle, looks good but there is a hind toe drag LH worse than R. I have sunk So Much Money into trying to figure out what it is. Injections, rehab, more injections, epm meds for the heck of it, back stuff, robaxin that costs $450 a tub, x-rays, shockwaving whatever, etc etc. The most recent stint was this past October - February of just groundwork rehab (vet was really pushing for $$$ rehab work at her facility but I was like nope I can do this at home), and these series of back injections that last only about 3 weeks (total cost of those were 3k) and then the thought was while the injections were active do the rehab to build up the muscle. After all this, I was left with a horse that still toe drags. So I am back riding him (but not doing anything crazy just trying to get him stronger) and putting the brakes on any vet work (for now)

[findeight]

That sounds like an old fracture up high in the hip or pelvis. There’s no effective treatment other then symptom relief and he’s getting around despite the toe drag so no need to confirm that with $$$$$$ DX. Another possibility is a fused hock, doesn’t hurt but does not have the range of motion to lift the toe anymore. Can’t inject a fused joint.

But there is a need to be aware these are possibilities and manage him appropriately.

[Meshach1]

interesting @findeight thanks! Old fracture up high in hip or pelvis sounds plausible. I do feel like it’s something up high. Years ago I took him for a bone scan but he was too big to get to the top of the SI pelvis area for their machine. When you say symptom relief what are you thinking? LIke Equioxx?

[findeight]

Ask your vet but Equioxx is a good choice. Despite its reputation, so is Bute. Given properlly. All NSAIDS have risks, especially when overused over long periods of time. But they do relieve chronic pain and reduce inflammation.

[Caol_Ila]

I’m glad the vet is coming and that the horse is improving.

As a general thing, sometimes you have to back away from a situation and say, “Not my circus, not my monkeys.”

If you think a horse is lame, or the saddle doesn’t fit, or whatever, and the owner is not interested in investigating the problem, even if they initially wanted your help, then you might need to walk out. Sad for the horse, but you can’t save them all.

I recently had to distance myself from a friend and accept a situation for what it is. Nothing I can do. Friend lost her horse to colic in November and initially wanted my assistance in finding a new horse. Great! I send her some ads for horses that looked promising. Not interested. She sends me ads for horses who remind her of her old horse. Definitely lame in the videos, which I point out.

A couple weeks later, she texts me to say she has put a deposit on a horse. Shows me some still photos from his advert. Okay, it’s a horse. Being ridden by a pro, from the looks of the photos. I ask her some questions about the horse. Where’s it from, what’s it done, what’s its name… Normal questions. It’s like taking a deposition from a reluctant witness - most of her answers are, “I don’t know” and “I can’t remember.” Weird, because most people will tell you more than you ever wanted to know. Like its name, for start?

Mutual friend recognises the arena in the advert photos - it’s from the yard of a well-known dodgy dealer. I go to dealer’s Facebook page and locate said advert, which is like a month old. Doesn’t say anything other than ‘16.2 all-rounder’ but it’s definitely the horse. Mutual friend gets points for her excellent detective work.

Horse finally appears at our yard. First thing I notice is a golf ball-sized round lump of scar tissue on the tendons below the hock. Second thing is puffiness and more scarring around the hock. Looks old, but God knows what’s going on underneath. Certainly not the new owner, who has not vetted it because, “It’s a waste of money 'cause vets will just say everything is lame.” I ask, “Do you know what happened to his leg?” Owner responds, “He was kicked in the field at his previous owner’s.” I observe, “Huh, looks like an old injury.” “No, no,” she insists. “It’s just bruising from a kick.”

Hell of a bruise. I return to FB for a closer look at the dealer’s advert. When you zoom in on the legs, you can totally see the golf ball sized lump.

Sometimes, you just have to walk away. Maybe you tried to help, but at the end of the day, it’s not your circus.

[Rosewatt]

Very good point.

It is extremely tough when it is a friend you are dealing with. Boundaries get crossed all the time. I have unfortunately dealt with that as well (actually it was the BO as well). I gradually backed out of the situation and I am extremely happy I made that decision as later on, the horse reared a rider off and the issue was finally found (ironically one of my suspicions that kept getting waived off). Because I backed out of the situation, I believe I avoided some major conflict (as there was a fight between the owner and the rider that got reared off). The BO is great and treats my horse SO WELL, so it really would have been a tragedy if I hadn’t walked away “politically” from that situation.

I’m finding that working others horses is a tricky situation to be in and I have to pick my battles. It is a very small community and things get around fast. I realize everyone does things differently; however, I’m finding it to be a tricky spot when a horse comes out NQR and mine pointing this out is frequently waived off or I advocate for slowing down the pace of training (for younger horses) and am waived off + pushed to get the horse to do xyz in the next following rides before the horse is ready.

[cheval_convert]

Not to hijack thread, but I got the news that I can begin riding my horse again! I have yet to speak with the vet and get a rehab schedule but I did hop on him yesterday for a 10 minute walk. He had a big, forward walk (for him), and felt the best he has felt in a long time. So glad I had the vet look at him.

[Rosewatt]

So glad to hear! That is great news!