Owners of Ex Amish Horses... What Has Your Experience Been Like?

[blondenfun]

Let me start of by saying that I’m looking for an overall honest opinion here. I just adopted a Saddlebred that is CUTE as a button, but clearly has a lot of issues. I am guessing at one point he was a show horse - he sets up in the bridle very nicely, and knows walk, trot, canter well… and loves, LOVES peppermints. All indicators (to me) that he probably was a show horse. Of course, as it seems to happen too often, he wound up on the road for ??? years pulling a buggy. Now, I realize rescues come with issues most often, but this one took me by surprise…and makes me sad…

When this guy was picked up from New Holland, he was quite stressed out. Supposedly the vet couldn’t get blood work, he kicked one of the workers at the sale, and upon walking into the stall… he pinned his ears at the lady who picked him up. He even kicked out to let her know he was all business! But never actually did anything to her. They loaded him up anyway, and as soon as he made it to his new “home,” he seemed to be relieved and relaxed a lot.

I have adopted him from a rescue about 6-7 months after them having him. I made a large mistake two weeks into having him, and tried to have a vet come out and sedate him to do teeth and chiropractic work (if he allowed it). Ha! Well, to summarize, he immediately gave us flat ears, nipped at me, started swishing his tail, showing teeth, etc. Stomping his feet, you name it. He saw the needle coming at him when the vet was just going to pet him first, and he got defensive. He actually more or less got aggressive. I think very fear related. We went around for 20 minutes not being able to get it in the vein (for fear of getting seriously hurt). We finally managed to get it in the muscle, after feeling like we were both going to get seriously injured because he put up a good fight. At one point, his front left leg came up and was pawing in the air. Quite traumatizing for me - I’ve NEVER had a mean bone in a horse I’ve owned. I ended up telling the vet not to do anything. He was even pinning ears after sedation, HEAVY sedation, and somehow had enough energy to crank his head back at me with flat ears as I walked into the stall after we had given the sedation material time to set in. (solid 30 minutes or more).

Of course, I am strongly considering not keeping this guy, and basically have a couple days to decide. Another farm might try him out with their lesson program (he’s had kids ride him and show him while at the previous rescue, surprisingly). I fear even simple tasks with this guy, and there has been a lot of ear pinning since I’ve had him… although! This has gotten MUCH better. I hardly have any, anymore as I believe he is starting to trust me.

What would be your suggestions here? I know this can be dangerous if the right person doesn’t know how to handle a horse like this. Has anyone else had an ex Amish horse like this? I truly feel like this guy was probably not treated well somewhere along the line, and maybe this is why he ended up almost going to kill. I can tell he wants to be a sweet horse, but he does some things sometimes that make me nervous. I struggle to wonder what will happen when he REALLY needs veterinary care, or even having the farrier come. That needs to be done, I dread that will cause a freak out session. As a side note, the rescue was able to give shots on their own with no problem, and never mentioned a problem with the farrier.

Thoughts? Experiences? I am all ears!

[Finzean]

How did the rescue handle having his vet work done? I would assume he had his feet done, etc. while with them.

Aside from that, I don’t think this is necessarily an ex-Amish horse thing. I’ve got an ex-Amish pony that was head shy when we got him…wigged out over having his ears messed with but I’ve also horses from a variety of situations that didn’t appreciate their ears being messed with. Our boy didn’t trust men the first few years we had him but he was great with kids and women.

If the situation is what I’m imagining from the description you are giving, perhaps the best thing for everyone involved is if he goes back to the rescue. Life is too short to continue to push what might be nothing more than a bad match. Best of luck to you.

[PeteyPie]

I would carry a needle/syringe with me, in plain sight where he can see it, for every single feeding. Then, as soon as he becomes non-reactive at feeding times and it feels safe, I would carry the plastic plunger part of the syringe, without the needle, and touch him with it before he gets a favorite grain and every time he is groomed. Just tap his neck and shoulder gently a few times, often. Then, I would stand near him while he is tied and squirt water out of the syringe while making the appearance of ignoring him. Then I would feed him. I would do this often. Eventually, I would have him stand while tied and I would mimic giving him a shot by gently pinching a fold of skin on his neck and placing the plastic syringe case there.

I would expect this process to take many days, at least a few weeks – as long as needed to progress to the next step. Somewhere in there toward the end, I would have other people approach him with the plastic syringe.

My vet places the needle first and then attaches the syringe. I think this is a good way to do it.

[HorsesinHaiti]

OP, my gelding is much worse than that about shots! It certainly wasn’t the Amish, and it probably wasn’t rough handling (though I don’t doubt he’s seen some of that). It is an extremely intelligent pony’s reaction to a couple rounds of penicillin shots. Once they get a series of shots that hurt, some of them decide that shots are something they DO.NOT.DO. The desensitizing process described above is about the best thing you can do for it.

But yeah, if you are really uncomfortable with his reactions, returning him to the rescue as a ‘mismatch’ may be the best thing in the long run. Horses with phobias need confident handlers to show them that it isn’t something they need to fear. If that just isn’t you at this point, no harm no foul.

[roseymare]

Sounds like he may have been pretty sick at one time. Every so often especially if they were sick as babies horses will get this “needle” aggressiveness

[betsyk]

I’d ask your vet what their honest opinion is. An experienced vet ought to have insight into whether he is simply needle-shy, or if it seems to be the presence of the veterinarian, and/or whether this is a fear thing or something else. We’re you the one who called it quits because you were afraid of getting hurt, or did the vet call it? Do they think with some handling by an experienced horse person, the situation might be different next time?

If your horse pulled a buggy for years, I bet he’s just fine for the farrier. If he wasn’t, he probably would have ended up at the sale a whole lot sooner.

[blondenfun]

[QUOTE=betsyk;8368892]
I’d ask your vet what their honest opinion is.We’re you the one who called it quits because you were afraid of getting hurt, or did the vet call it? Do they think with some handling by an experienced horse person, the situation might be different next time? [/QUOTE]

Thank you all for the responses so far!

I was the one to call it quits. I felt it was quite traumatic, and I was truly afraid one of us was going to get hurt. To me, it wasn’t worth it. Again, I’d never seen a horse like this, or had a horse like this. I did ask the vet what she would do if she were me. After much prying, she admitted he was the worst horse she’d ever worked on/with. She said there are “too many nice saddlebreds out there,” and was in agreement that sending him back might not be a bad idea. Of course, had I known we could have used hock hobbles or something that might have not been a bad idea, but it maybe also would have made it much more stressful for the horse, I’m sure. I really wasn’t sure how to handle the situation, because I wasn’t expecting it. The rescue has been very honest with me, and I know would not have adopted him out had they known he was like this. They didn’t do anything with him for the first month they got him, just let him settle in. And when they did shots, they gave them on their own. I imagine he trusted them? I don’t know. They said they didn’t have any issues with the farrier.

One of the other major deterrents at the beginning was ear pinning. This has significantly improved as I have made it a point to go out and see him and interact with him daily… but it did occur a lot at the beginning.

[HealingHeart]

The only suggestion, is to build trust, slowly, but you have to do that anyway as he adjust to his new home & person. Bad experience at some point, but as you said has other things that are good experiences. Would horse stocks be an option?

[WendellsGirl]

Without knowing the horse, it’s hard to say whether his issues are behavioral or physical or some of both. It’s important to remember…time heals a lot of issues with old Amish horses. Give him some time. Also remember, a lot of Amish horses get very used to working thru pain or uncomfortable-ness. They keep on plugging along down the road, in poor shoes, in all weather, even if they’re lame or sore. So, they build up a certain stoic ness that sometimes cracks loose when they get out of that environment. The biggest mistake I see made with ex Amish horses is people bring them home and immediately jump into every vet check up, farrier work up, etc plus turn the horse out on extended vacation. It’s best to keep them in light work (these are horses used to doing 20/30/40 miles/day) and sit tight on the health stuff until they settle in a little bit. When you change their lives so much (even if it’s technically for the better) you create culture shock for them. And nobody thrives when they’re shocked.

[anon68314200]

OP I think you’ll find a lot more success if you focus on how your actions have influenced the horse instead of trying to find causes with the past owners.

I have a horse that was bred by the Amish and he’s a total rock star. Took him fox hunting for the first time last Sunday and he’s a total God in the Hunt field.

He has a slightly sensitive personality. And I can easily imagine that if you tried to come after him with a needle the way you and the vet did, you could get a scary scenari.

Your horses reaction is likely due to 2 unknown people attempting to force the horse, when you knew the horse was very very very unhappy with what you were doing.

I’ve known FEI level show horses that couldn’t be caught in their stalls cuz people have gone in there and tormented them so much. ( sensitizing legs, bags and bags of saline etc) I also know show horses who have had so much cotton stuffed in their ears you can’t get near their head. If you insisted on it you could wind up unconscious.

Focus on how the horse is responding to your actions. Not to theorizing about what people in the past have done.

[alibi_18]

OP, you clearly don’t possess the skills/knowledge/attitude to deal with such horse. And neither is your vet. (There are other safer ways to sedate a horse.)

You should send him back asap.

For next horse, hire a competent vet to do an on-site PPE especially if it comes from a rescue.

he pinned his ears at the lady who picked him up.

He was even pinning ears after sedation, HEAVY sedation, and somehow had enough energy to crank his head back at me with flat ears as I walked into the stall

there has been a lot of ear pinning since I’ve had him…

One of the other major deterrents at the beginning was ear pinning. This has significantly improved as I have made it a point to go out and see him and interact with him daily… but it did occur a lot at the beginning.

Also, your focus on his ears is a little intense… really a major deterrent?

[thatmoody]

BTW, I have a pony who is a major PITA to work with for vet and farrier work - he does the whole throwing front legs thing (he is good for sedation or shots when I do them, although one vet had a bit of issues with it; I’m quick and I don’t muck about but rather just do it quick - if he goes up, well, it’s already in so…). I just ignore the crappy ears (normally he’s pretty happy), discipline anything that seems actually threatening or nasty and don’t worry too much about his past - just his future, which is improving every day.

It does sound like he’s not a good fit, he’s stressing you out, and you have someone willing to take him, so I’d let them.

[thatmoody]

Other than that, I agree with alibi- it sounds like the horse is not a good fit. Lots of happy horses out there

[Marla_100]

These horses take time, patience, time, patience and a vet w/ knowledge of dealing with a sensitive horse. Saddlebreds are super smart and super sensitive. They trust no one after having been treated roughly. They do come around with those who deal with them on a daily basis but it takes time and patience.

Usually a female vet is best for these guys as male vets tend to want to well, “man-handle” them and that does not work. Slow, methodical, baby steps with a gentle handler will win in the long run.

[Nootka]

If you are frightened of him… he knows it. I would send him back because it seems he may have damaged you. He is a rescue but still needs manners.

[gloriginger]

[QUOTE=blondenfun;8368780]
. I fear even simple tasks with this guy, and there has been a lot of ear pinning since I’ve had him… although! This has gotten MUCH better. I hardly have any, anymore as I believe he is starting to trust me. [/QUOTE]

I would give him back if you have the opportunity. Life is to short to deal with a horse that you fear. He has told you he is unpredictable, and you know he has a history of this as well…find a nice horse that doesn’t give you anxiety.

[toady123]

It does sound like he is more sour than wildly dangerous, and willing to take advantage of people who are unable/willing to control his reactions. This could of course escalate to something that would be more dangerous (although I don’t consider ear pinning and teeth nashing to be over the top on the danger scale).

I am also surprised that these behaviours, along a single attempt at pawing were enough to overwhelm your vet.

Make no mistake, if you feel out of your element than this would be going nowhere good fast - this is the type of horse that needs management. Did the rescue provide any advise in terms of how they have managed him? If you feel out of your depth, I would send him back for your safety and his well-being.

[shakeytails]

I’d hazard a guess that it has absolutely nothing to do with being ex-Amish, although it could be the reason he ended up with the Amish in the first place.

I’ve sent several to the Amish for basic under saddle and harness breaking. They come back with manners and happy. Never has one been worse rather than better. I have one STB that came from the Amish- she’s funny about her back feet, but from what I was told, she came to them like that.

FWIW, I have a couple of ASBs that like to pin their ears back and act like bad-asses. One of them is my current show horse who’s always been a bit of a jerk but never backs an ear while working, the other is a stallion. It’s all a show for both of them, but in inexperienced hands I could see it turning ugly. I just tell them to put their damn ears up if they want a peppermint/attention/dinner.

For whatever reason your horse is needle-phobic and may have other trust issues. If you’re not completely comfortable with that, it’s in his and your best interest to send him back.

[RegentLion]

Whatever you do, do not send him to the lesson program. Sounds like he has the potential to be dangerous… And perhaps that environment would also be stressful for him.

[sdlbredfan]

Contact the rescue immediately, if you have not already. (Just curious, please PM me which group he came from.) Reputable rescues have ‘return if needed’ clauses in their adoption contract, which protects the horse and the adopter. Good luck and keep us posted. BTW I agree, this behavior probably has nothing whatsoever to do with his having been with the Amish.