Owners of Ex Amish Horses... What Has Your Experience Been Like?

[blondenfun]

[QUOTE=TequilaMockingbird;8369828]
I have no experience with Amish horses but my horse was very body defensive when I bought her.

She has never kicked out or tried to bite anyone but she did lots of posturing (swinging her butt at you, pinning ears, throwing her weight around to get away from you). I knew she hated needles, vets and anyone really messing with her because of her behavior at the PPE.

The first time I had the farrier out we had to use a lip chain. Through patience, time and having the right farrier, she is now a perfect angel. I found that having a farrier with the right mindset really makes a difference. Some farriers have a calming influence and this transfers to the horse. They feed off that energy. With the wrong farrier a defensive horse can be dangerous. With the right farrier, they can be nervous wiggle worms that take a long time to finish but no one gets hurt and the horse isn’t traumatized.

Two months after I bought my mare she had to have a new coggins pulled. They had to blindfold and twitch her and she was still rearing in the stall. At the beginning I thought it was the needle itself. By this point she had some trust in me and was getting better about me touching her all over without getting upset.

First I kept her in the cross ties and poked a sharp pen in the exact way a needle would be inserted into the vein. Once I got her nonreactive to that I did it loose in her stall while she was quietly munching hay. I even brought out some rubbing alcohol and went through the whole nine yards as if I were truly giving her an injection. She didn’t even take the time to stop chewing, that’s who disinterested she was in what I was doing.

The next time she had to have vet work done she was still pretty bad for the vet but not as bad as before. At this point I’m figuring it is the stranger cornering her that is the real trigger, the needle just really sets her off because it reinforcing the stranger danger.

The next couple vet visits I had the vet dose her with dormosedan gel before giving her vaccinations or floating her teeth. It’s quick even when they’re fighting you and there wasn’t a sharp needle flying around to make it worse. Then we used a technique where we would walk her around the barn with vet walking along side, patting her on the neck for a few minutes. Then the vet would put the needle in quick, while we’re still walking. The needle was in and out of the vet’s pocket before maresy even noticed it.

The last two times she had an injection done we didn’t even have to do the neck patting trick. Just bring her out of the stall, let her get used to the vet touching her and then they can inject her with no problems whatsoever.

If you still want to keep this horse, you’ve got to get him to trust you first. After that it’s just baby steps and using professionals who are patient and aren’t going to manhandle them. Every time they have a traumatic experience where they’re flailing and doing everything they can do get away from you, you’re just reinforcing that fear. Every time you keep every calm and do things slowly, they will be just a little easier the next time around.

I will say the thing that took the longest for her to accept was the chiropractor. I wouldn’t bother with that until you get this horse safe with other things first. It won’t be of any benefit physically to adjust a horse that is resisting or outright fighting you.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the helpful advice. Sounds like you’ve done a great job with yours!

[Lady_Eboshi]

[QUOTE=blondenfun;8369886]
My panties definitely are not in a bunch. I will listen to respectful advice and give respectful feedback if it warrants it - there is no need to be rude or talk down to me because I am new to the forum.

I stated above I have shown Arabians and a National Show Horse in the past at a regional level, I also never once stated I knew it all… just that I had some pretty good experience with horses.[/QUOTE]

If you have the stated experience, OP, then WHY:

(1) Did you seek out a horse with known aggression issues?

(2) Are you so easily intimidated by pinned ears/raised foot?

(3) Are you not able to apply the appropriate techniques?

(4) Aren’t you willing to admit this horse is unsuitable?

Three problems with the common “Rescuer” scenario:

(1) They think they know, but they don’t know. Handing ruined, hurt, scared or badly or untrained horses takes a lot more than “love.” The rubbish all over FB would have one think these are all cuddly teddy bears, who just need “a hug” and cookies and patience. NOT SO!

(2) Many horses go through a public sale for a damn good reason. Those reasons commonly include untreatable or expensive diseases, intractable temperament issues, incipient unsoundness, or just plain being what old-timers call “a screw.” When the Amish unload them, it’s usually at the tail end of their working life. That’s the reason they are THERE, and while you might find a sweet, useful diamond in the rough, there’s a high average of horrendous problems the ammie is better off avoiding. They don’t call it “dumping” for no reason.

(3) It does NOT follow that experience handling normal, sweet, “pet” or tractable show horses equals the ability to handle the obnoxious, dangerous, or screwy ones. Especially if what you bought him for is to have a good time. People caught up in the “Rescue!” crusader mode very often forget why they wanted a horse in the first place. Probably 10% or more of the horses run through any given sale should not BE selling–they should be put down!

That’s the reality.

People looking for a PLEASURE HORSE, backyard pet, sound sport horse or otherwise pleasant and useful recreational horse must be very, VERY careful buying at the lowest end of the food chain–and take a knowledgeable professional with them if they do. “Rescues” are not all created equal, either–some do great work, some are glorified holding pens for flipper/broker/KB/hoarders. It helps to have a revolving-door mentality; if it doesn’t work out, back it goes before the ~wrong~ match gets someone killed.

There are too many “nice ones” in the world to put up with a mess like this. Unless you want the equine equivalent of a psycho boyfriend who beats you. And for liability reasons alone, if your name is now on the papers I WOULD NOT leave him off at ANY lesson stable, I would deliver him back to the point of origin and and sign off on him to them.

While I am not an admirer of the way ~some~ Amish use up and dump their horses, those I’ve personally handled all had much BETTER than average ground manners, tying, etc. So I’m not inclined to pin this guy’s problems on them.

I’m not piling 100% of this on the OP; she’s just a good example of what’s happening right now to AN AWFUL LOT of well-meaning “rescuers” out there.
There’s been a rash of five-star disasters coming out of the auction circuit these days–I believe because people without the requisite experience in the knuckle-dragging bottom-feeding world literally don’t know what they’re looking at. So this post is equally for the benefit of lurkers.

[jvanrens]

@blujen;8369601

I agree that it probably wasn’t just rough handling. Saddlebreds are smart, and they don’t LIKE being poked with needles for (what they see as) no reason. They’re likely to try fighting back, and if the right person isn’t there with the right correction the very first time they try it, it can get ugly. My guy has to have a lip chain on and a hand over his eye before the vet gets a needle within 12 feet of him. He’s never been mishandled or abused, but he’s no shrinking violet and he doesn’t like shots.

IME breed has nothing to do with it. My 21 YO Appendix QH mare is an ass when she smells a vet, doesn’t even need to see a needle to get upset.

[D_BaldStockings]

Did you tell the horse to knock it off? And back that up with, um, snatching the lead or a swat on the shoulder?

Did you try a twitch?
Or a foreleg strap?
Or even a short tie to a wall post?

Does your vet know how to do a shoulder pinch?

I wasn’t there, but you haven’t expressed any actions you may have taken to modify the horse’s behavior other than backing off and quitting. -which will never work.

one of my mares bites -me- and has since I’ve owned her. She came with the warning. And had to have daily shots for a week after I bought her due to critical medical issues… we got it done.

She is also wonderful with children and anyone she doesn’t associate with needles -so not me- I, on the other hand have to watch her, as she believes I am just waiting for the opportunity. She does actually look a bit contrite afterward when she realizes I didn’t have a needle this time, but her attitude is better safe than sorry.

She is great under saddle or lungeing with me or anyone: she knows there are no needles then. And it has been a decade…

The horse you are dealing with is not one you want to deal with, so send back to the rescue.

[PeteyPie]

[QUOTE=Marla 100;8369196]
These horses take time, patience, time, patience and a vet w/ knowledge of dealing with a sensitive horse. Saddlebreds are super smart and super sensitive. They trust no one after having been treated roughly. They do come around with those who deal with them on a daily basis but it takes time and patience.

Usually a female vet is best for these guys as male vets tend to want to well, “man-handle” them and that does not work. Slow, methodical, baby steps with a gentle handler will win in the long run.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know if I would make that assumption, about male vs. female vets. My vet is a man and he is so quiet and proficient around my horses that I don’t think anyone could do a much better job than he. He has a manner around horses that seems very natural, but is no doubt is anything but; I’m sure his expertise is the product of years of experience, training, and his own confident personality. The horses behave with him. At the same time, he never hesitates to use his arsenal of drugs to reduce pain or immobilize the horse when necessary.

I’ve never seen him raise his voice or act in a rough manner.

[blondenfun]

[QUOTE=D_BaldStockings;8369963]
Did you tell the horse to knock it off? And back that up with, um, snatching the lead or a swat on the shoulder?[/QUOTE]

We initially just had a halter and leadrope on him. Again, I will reiterate that I figured the previous situation of him not being able to get his blood drawn was associated with the stress of being at the sale. And when the rescue told me they had done shots on their own with no problem, I wasn’t second guessing that he would be okay. After the first sight of the ears going back and him cranking his head at me and nipping at me, I went ahead and put the chain on the leadrope over his nose. This didn’t work, and in fact… getting after him seemed to make things worse. No matter what we were doing, he was being combative. I would say we were unprepared…

Lesson learned.

[SmartAlex]

I remember the story of him being picked up at the sale. I imagine that whatever baggage he has is worse when he is in a new situation like the auction or being with you a few weeks. That being said, there is no reason why you should keep a horse that you have trust issues with. I’d swap him out. That’s a good rescue and they’ll find him a place who can deal with his quirks.

[laskiblue]

If you can send him back to the rescue, I would do so.

My only experience with an ex-Amish horse is the draft cross that taught me to ride at the ranch where my horse is now boarded. He had spent some time at another facility that bought horses like him to retrain before coming to the ranch. When I first met him over 8 years ago, he was rather aloof and clearly had not been accustomed to interacting with humans for anything other than just work. Now? He’s a big sweet guy, steady as the day as long, a favorite ride for young and old, and an accomplished vaulting horse.

[kcmel]

My horse didn’t come from Amish but a similar type situation. He is very sensitive so he did not fare well in that type of environment. It took a few months for him to settle in and develop trust in me. Farrier, vet, and clipping were all very hard–he just doesn’t trust strangers. My vet was able to show me some natural horseman type methods to work with him, and that has really helped with the farrier, although he is still not perfect. We are also making progress with clipping. He will tolerate it anywhere besides his face.

He is great at shows, though, and other new environments, and is starting to develop into a brave jumper, although he can still have issues. I am thrilled with the progress he has made over the last 18 months. He is the horse of a lifetime. Good luck!

[asb2517]

@blondenfun;8370008

I would say we were unprepared…

You think?

PLEASE just send this horse back…he deserves a real chance.

[can_t_re]

I agree, it may be best to send this one back to the rescue. Your horse had two careers that most likely weren’t the easiest. So a lot more baggage.
I was looking forward to reading about other experiences with Amish owned horses when I saw the title. I was hoping there would be more experiences.

My 19hh Amish draft horse arrived in January of this year. It has taken until very recently for him not to flinch and tense up when I pet or brush him. He will not put his head any where near me, except for haltering. I recently have gotten him to take hay from my hand, but if his mouth bumps my hand he gets scared. He is actually ok for shots. He is NOT anywhere near OK to do his feet.
He is hard to catch and generally suspicious - though getting better about these things too. He definitely is much more suspicious of people he doesn’t know.
He has gotten better about everything. I think it helps that I in a position that I don’t need to put a lot of pressure on him to do anything. He currently doesn’t have a job and seems just fine with that. He seems very happy here and is the ultimate baby sitter.
The weirdest thing is that he didn’t seem to know how to graze or maybe he was used to working everyday and didn’t know how to goof off. We had him in a nice pasture and he would hang his head over the fence and stare at us or doze. Even when his pasturemate was out grazing. He has figured that part out.

[Revolver]

[QUOTE=laskiblue;8374798]
If you can send him back to the rescue, I would do so.

My only experience with an ex-Amish horse is the draft cross that taught me to ride at the ranch where my horse is now boarded. He had spent some time at another facility that bought horses like him to retrain before coming to the ranch. When I first met him over 8 years ago, he was rather aloof and clearly had not been accustomed to interacting with humans for anything other than just work. Now? He’s a big sweet guy, steady as the day as long, a favorite ride for young and old, and an accomplished vaulting horse. :)[/QUOTE]

This describes my guy to a T! He is an 11 year old draft cross who was obviously used to being used and put away, without all the floofery interaction in between. I picked him up at a sale barn in March, and his personality has really flourished in the 7 months I’ve had him. In the beginning he wouldn’t even look at me when I took him out and tied him. Now we’re a certified mounted search and rescue team now, and I completely trust him. He has a really goofy personality and I wouldn’t give him up for the world.

He was very nervous with the farrier the first few times. They had to lip chain him the first time, but each time since he’s gotten better and better. We think he was done in stocks.

By the way, OP, you shouldn’t say you’re “all ears” and then get huffy when you get answers you don’t like.

[skipollo]

[QUOTE=PeteyPie;8369989]
I don’t know if I would make that assumption, about male vs. female vets. My vet is a man and he is so quiet and proficient around my horses that I don’t think anyone could do a much better job than he. He has a manner around horses that seems very natural, but is no doubt is anything but; I’m sure his expertise is the product of years of experience, training, and his own confident personality. The horses behave with him. At the same time, he never hesitates to use his arsenal of drugs to reduce pain or immobilize the horse when necessary.

I’ve never seen him raise his voice or act in a rough manner.[/QUOTE]

My super sensitive OTTB prefers a gentle, mild-mannered vet regardless of gender. There’s one male vet locally who is very soft spoken and kind, and my horse really likes him. We also have a female vet locally who (while she’s a good vet and is very nice) has a very strong and bold personality. She isn’t his favorite.