Owners who change horses names.....

[Snowflake]

But, let’s look at this from the other perspective.

a.) You had a business transaction with this person. If I had entered into a business transaction with you and you called me crying and emotional, I would probably be taken aback and give myself a little space. This may be why Michael is not responding to you well.

b.) A verbal agreement is not enforceable in most cases. Your perception of what was agreed to may be different than the buyers. Too much room for interpretation.

c.) He may have had a good reason to change the name. I have a perverse wit and I can think of some twisted paths to puruse with a name of “Backstage.” Having been on the receiving end of a horse named “Horny Snowflake” I can understand the buyer’s remorse. I changed my horse’s name too.

IMHO, I would just let it go. Unless you had it in writing with a penalty clause you’re really SOL. Does it stink? Yes. Is it what you wanted? No. Is it something you’ll learn from in the future? Yes. And that is what you should take away from this situation.

You’re not going to do your reputation any good by getting into an emotional he-said, she-said over it. Add his new name to your website, do what you have to with the search engines that you come up on top in a search of his name and wish them luck on their pursuits.

[MaggieF]

[QUOTE=Bent Hickory;6127404]
One reason there is little to no value in reducing the price to a “show home.”[/QUOTE]

Which is exactly what I did! I made $0 on this incredible horse because of promises of helping me promote my young horses, riding some for me…it just goes on and on. Just such BS and I fell for it.

And yes, I admit, being treated this way by someone you trusted does make me cry. Getting soft in my old age I guess.

Maggie

[S_A_McKee]

And when a TB name gets changed nobody on this forum gets upset LOL
The logic given is the new owner has every right to change the name if they don’t like it. What’s good for one breed is good for all.

USEF allows changes of name but a form needs to be completed and a fee paid.

But if you annoy the new owner they will probably simply do a new recording instead of a transfer. That way you won’t even get credit as the breeder.
But it sounds like you didn’t have a written agreement so I wouldn’t count on help from USEF.

You can notify USEF that the horse has been sold and they will indicate that as part of the owners name. At least that way it doesn’t look like the horse dropped off the face of the earth.

[Tamara_in_TN]

[QUOTE=S A McKee;6127458]
And when a TB name gets changed nobody on this forum gets upset LOL
.[/QUOTE]

or not…my mare was still Bellerita (Moscow Ballet x Sweet Reet) even four foals later and to her dying day
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/bellerita

Tamara

[andy.smaga]

Maggie, I sympathize but renaming a horse is also happening in Europe, and I hate it also (you don’t like the name, then don’t buy the horse).
The big advantage my side of the pond is that we have the UELN enforced, so a unique number for each horse, it make it easy to find the original name of the horse and recognize the breeder.

[MountainCreek]

[QUOTE=MaggieF;6127320]
I have asked him, Michael Hockstetler, to change the name back and/or at least keep the MF. His response was that I had no right to send him a “threatening” text. There was absolutely nothing threatening about the text. Then I left him a message on his phone. I admit I was crying when I left the message because Backstage MF (Oscar was his barn name because he was born during the Oscar’s) is a really special horse and still a stallion. I am very proud of him and would really like to be known as the breeder. He refuses to respond to my texts or phone messages.

I have to admit I am just devastated.

Maggie[/QUOTE]

AWWW I’m so sorry Maggie. Thats so unfair.

[RunningwaterWBs]

I don’t mean to play devil’s advocate – believe me, I can empathize with you – but in a world of text-speak it occurs to me that the buyer may have wanted to eliminate one alternate reading of MF. (Starts with mother, rhymes with trucker…).

Regardless, I think the important thing is to make sure you continue to be named as breeder on the horse’s paperwork.

[Cartier]

We are breeders, I completely understand why you are upset over this (it speaks to the need for one lifetime number for the horses we breed). As for you leaving a message while crying, I would take it as a measure of how much you care, and actually respond with kindness. This reptilian reaction that showing emotion is bad and wrong is simply bizarre. Crying is a normal - even healthy - response to stress. You cared about this horse, his name was special to you, you had an agreement that you relied upon that the name would not be changed… it was changed and you are essentially helpless now to protect your interests in the matter. There is nothing abnormal about shedding a few tears over the situation… in fact, it is perfectly normal.

Not sure if this is comforting or not, but what goes around comes around. If a person shows by their actions that they do not honor their word ( i.e., can not be trusted), it will come back to haunt them.

[babecakes]

@MaggieF;6127245

I am so upset!!! I sold the full brother of Bliss MF to a trainer in FL with the, sadly only verbal, agreement that he would not change his name, Backstage MF. … it is so important for breeders to get SOME recognition that initials at the end of a name become so important.

@MaggieF;6127320

I have asked him … to at least keep the MF.

uh … didn’t you do exactly the same thing on one of your horses? the one that lost the breeding suffix???

[atlatl]

I once bought a horse that the seller had bought directly from the breeder. She didn’t like his original name, so renamed him (still had to start with an L). He went on to be very high scoring when inspected. He still shows up on the breeder’s web site with both names. Sort of like the “artist formerly known as Prince”.

I understand where the breeders are coming from with wanting to keep some suffix or prefix associated with their farms but I have to agree with the previous poster that “MF” isn’t exactly what I’d like on either end of my horse’s name. Imagine buying a horse from Big Farm Downwind!!

Joking aside, OP, I am sorry that someone reneged on what you clearly thought was an agreement.

[MaggieF]

[QUOTE=Cartier;6127586]
We are breeders, I completely understand why you are upset over this (it speaks to the need for one lifetime number for the horses we breed). As for you leaving a message while crying, I would take it as a measure of how much you care, and actually respond with kindness. This reptilian reaction that showing emotion is bad and wrong is simply bizarre. Crying is a normal - even healthy - response to stress. You cared about this horse, his name was special to you, you had an agreement that you relied upon that the name would not be changed… it was changed and you are essentially helpless now to protect your interests in the matter. There is nothing abnormal about shedding a few tears over the situation… in fact, it is perfectly normal.

Not sure if this is comforting or not, but what goes around comes around. If a person shows by their actions that they do not honor their word ( i.e., can not be trusted), it will come back to haunt them.[/QUOTE]

Thank you so much. That does make me feel so much better. You are right, I hope!!!

Maggie

[MaggieF]

[QUOTE=babecakes;6127601]
uh … didn’t you do exactly the same thing on one of your horses? the one that lost the breeding suffix???[/QUOTE]

I’m way confused by this statement…I’ve never had a horse loose a suffix. Are you sure you are thinking about the right person?

Maggie

[MaggieF]

[QUOTE=I understand where the breeders are coming from with wanting to keep some suffix or prefix associated with their farms but I have to agree with the previous poster that “MF” isn’t exactly what I’d like on either end of my horse’s name. Imagine buying a horse from Big Farm Downwind!!

Joking aside, OP, I am sorry that someone reneged on what you clearly thought was an agreement.[/QUOTE]

Actually two years ago I switched to just M as a suffix. One because MaryDell Farm uses MF also and two because of the Mother F****er thing. So if you go on my web site you’ll see last years crop and the year before’s crop are all “name” M. I actually like it much better. I also told Michael that when I sold him the horse that I had no problem if he wanted to use just “M” but he laughed and said he liked the “MF”.

30 years ago when I first started breeding we bred ponies and the were all called Marabet whatever. Like our very first pony was named Marabet First Chance. I stopped doing that when I switched to breeding horses because I thought it was just a “pony” thing.

Maggie

[3Dogs]

oh dear this all leads back to the endlessly debated Universal Number - USEF data tracking - which if we had, frankly, I don’t/wouldn’t CARE about the name changes (which seem to have all sorts of personal attachments to each owner ;)- which I GET as a breeder, but is not really the point - credit for breeding is the point ) So if Alfie becomes Bobby, still the horse I bred

Heck, while they didn’t BREED him, Silverhorne Sporthorse had a great stallion named Vallado and then Larry G bought him and changed his name to “Praise” :eek: - a personal yuck myself .

[Snowflake]

[QUOTE=Cartier;6127586]
This reptilian reaction that showing emotion is bad and wrong is simply bizarre.[/QUOTE]

No one has said that here at all. That being said, the OP’s relationship with the trainer is a business relationship - not an emotional one. It would have been one thing for her to cry to a close friend who did this, but the fact is this trainer doesn’t know her on this level.

I mean, from a purely business standpoint, I equate this to selling a house. Say I build my dream home but circumstances force me to sell it. There is nothing I can do to prevent future buyers from redecorating, remodeling or tearing the whole thing down if they want to. I’m sure I would be met with some resistance if I called them crying going “But you can’t change my house!” I have to take solace in the fact that my name will still be on the deed to the property as the original owner just the same as this breeder will be recognized on the horses papers.

My opinion is that the OP has made a decision to breed horses and subsequently sell them. Upon selling them, she needs to be able to process the idea that she no longer has a certain level of control over their care, conditioning and general maintenance/record keeping. If I were in this particular position, I would only call the buyer if I had a written, binding agreement to maintain the horse as named or recognize me as the breeder in any name changes by keeping the farm suffix. Otherwise, this is a hard lesson learned about the nature of business - get everything in writing.

[Iron_Horse_Farm]

@Snowflake;6127747

I mean, from a purely business standpoint, I equate this to selling a house. Say I build my dream home but circumstances force me to sell it. There is nothing I can do to prevent future buyers from redecorating, remodeling or tearing the whole thing down if they want to. I’m sure I would be met with some resistance if I called them crying going “But you can’t change my house!” I have to take solace in the fact that my name will still be on the deed to the property as the original owner just the same as this breeder will be recognized on the horses papers.

Ummm, not even close. This would be fine if you were a “homeowner” selling a house. But in your equation, she is a “builder”. As such, she wants certain parts of the artistry of the home retained so that when it is seen by others, she will garner more buisness as a BUILDER.

[Iron_Horse_Farm]

I have problems with this on so many levels.

1. I have a horse out there that I bred, that did big “A” circuit jumping things, however, the woman that I sold her to did not pass along her papers to buyer #2 and so she showed up on the circuit with a NEW lifetime USEF # and a new name. Buyer #3 changed her name - and USEF # again and VOILA! she is once again eligible for the baby greens. Did I mention that each timer she gets a bit younger?

2. There is now a clause in my contract that says that the name, USEF # etc may not be changed. It is an enforceable contract. I must also be listed as the breeder in any recognized competition.

[Tamara_in_TN]

[QUOTE=Iron Horse Farm;6127772]
Ummm, not even close. This would be fine if you were a “homeowner” selling a house. But in your equation, she is a “builder”. As such, she wants certain parts of the artistry of the home retained so that when it is seen by others, she will garner more buisness as a BUILDER.[/QUOTE]

if they tore down all the Frank Lloyd Wright buildings,or denied that he built them what would we have ever had of him left now today?

Tamara

[Horsezee]

Maggie

I am sorry, Maggie. I know Oscar was very special to you. It is disappointing that it is hard to distinguish people that are not honorable from those that are. As soon as some people get want; they want they change their tune and show their true colors.

At this point, what you can do is to try to keep tract of Oscar’s USEF recorded name(s) and try make certain you are listed correctly as the breeder. That way no matter what an owner chooses to name him; at least you will still have credit for your program for breeding him. Hopefully, you will be able to follow him if he changes ownership again.

When we bought one of our horses he was recorded as Designer Image (YUCK) with no credit given to his breeder. I was also told he had been shown as Elmo (most of the USEF recorded Elmo’s are ponies) in the Junior Jumpers. I never found his USEF record for that. I spoke with his breeder and she had called him ‘L’. Maybe that’s where a former owner got Elmo from? We USEF recorded him using his breeder given name plus one other word; listing his breeder, Con Brio farms.

Perhaps Oscar will find another owner down the road that will do the right thing and give credit where credit is due. Hopefully, that will be the case.

[MaggieF]

[QUOTE=Snowflake;6127747]
No one has said that here at all. That being said, the OP’s relationship with the trainer is a business relationship - not an emotional one. It would have been one thing for her to cry to a close friend who did this, but the fact is this trainer doesn’t know her on this level.

I mean, from a purely business standpoint, I equate this to selling a house. Say I build my dream home but circumstances force me to sell it. There is nothing I can do to prevent future buyers from redecorating, remodeling or tearing the whole thing down if they want to. I’m sure I would be met with some resistance if I called them crying going “But you can’t change my house!” I have to take solace in the fact that my name will still be on the deed to the property as the original owner just the same as this breeder will be recognized on the horses papers.

My opinion is that the OP has made a decision to breed horses and subsequently sell them. Upon selling them, she needs to be able to process the idea that she no longer has a certain level of control over their care, conditioning and general maintenance/record keeping. If I were in this particular position, I would only call the buyer if I had a written, binding agreement to maintain the horse as named or recognize me as the breeder in any name changes by keeping the farm suffix. Otherwise, this is a hard lesson learned about the nature of business - get everything in writing.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps I should explain this more carefully. I did have a personal relationship with Michael. He had been riding horses for me and claimed to be helping me market to the trainers at WEF. He rode Bliss MF for me at YHS. He even brought me an unsolicited huge offer for Bliss MF which I turned down. (Frankly I think he got really pissed when I turned this offer down because he wanted the commission.) I sold him Backstage MF at a greatly reduced price because he was going to help me in exchange for this. Actually I started hearing stories from other people that I was concerned about but I let it slide. I just feel duped and stupid and hurt BUT most importantly I am pissed because I want to be known as the breeder of this horse and I am afraid now I won’t be.

Maggie