Painta-Pintaloosa's!!

[gardencreekfarm]

Wow you guys must really love criticizing people over the internet when you know nothing about them. Also what I meant when I added my edit was that I bred for the conformation, performance, and athletic ability the color was just the icing on the cake something extra, that I didn’t really care about but added some spice to the horse, which If I would have had the chose with the same stallion that was Appaloosa or a solid sport horse I most defiantly would have chose it but that not what I was looking for. I decided to post some pictures of her mom and dad. Just to ease your mind and let you sleep better, because I know I did not make a bad decision and I’m proud of her, she is an awesome filly. Also you don’t need to lecture me on how to breed, what with and why, I do breed “purebred” horses and very rarely cross. This was an exception and I’m not doing it again so no need to lecture me or try to talk me out of something that I don’t need to hear because you’re wasting your breath. And also, I agree with the whole unwanted horse thing going on so before any of you flip out I would like to say I am not and do not agree with baby factory farms, I breed for show, for quality, and when and what I need it for. I also always make sure I have backup plans for if something happens to me or any of my staff or family, so that the horses will always have a place to go.

http://www.shoc.org/KingsWitchdoctor.html
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2009-2/1335023/clip_image002.jpg

[belambi]

Kings Witchdoctor is a really very nice and well known stallion, with the bonus of being homozygous for tobiano. (I know he has some overo breeding, and hopefully / more than likely he has been tested negative…) so you probably have a really quite nice horse… Have you a picture of the horse ?..

[summerhorse]

The ApHC used to register patterned crop out QHs no problem. I don’t know current rules but they should have them on their website. Since they allow TONS of TB and QH blood into the gene pool one with COLOR would seem to be no problem… (eyeroll!) Some of the most famous Apps have been AQHA crop outs. But since the ApHC allows QHs as parents with one App reg. parent this guy could still be used for breeding apps even if he might not be eligible for showing.

Because of heavy culling the “crop out” App has become less common but still occurs because there is still Lp and pattern genes floating around in the AQHA gene pool. This horse picked up one from each side of it’s pedigree and you get an Appy. Usually they are sold off in secrecy because they don’t want to cull that horse’s parent(s) from their herd! That’s one nice thing about the killing of the white rule, now people KNOW which horses carry one or the other. Although you might not know WHICH one.

They will always have crop out pinto patterns because most (if not all) of the QH white markings are from pinto patterns! Keep breeding them together and you get more and more white expression.

Of course while you can register these horses have fun trying to SHOW them (or offer them for breeding). It’s just nice that if you get an orphan color you don’t have to throw out the baby with the bathwater anymore. Then APHA had to mess it up by making their own one parent rule despite happily registering crop out QHs and TBs since oh they were formed!!! Petty!

Anyway it seems as though this mare in question totally missed out on the Lp (although she could carry pattern genes) and will not produce an Lp foal unless the stallion has it to offer. While this is also still possible there are fewer appy genes floating around the APHA gene pool because of the color mixing issue so the only color possible here would be a tobiano or tovero.

The mare from what I can see is gorgeous and the stallion is gorgeous and there appears to be SOME registry it can get “papers” from so what is the big deal? I see bizarre crosses of inferior horses every day. I see purebred inferior horses reproducing every day. I certainly do not recommend breeding grade horses but if the individuals are quality and well trained they will be valued by someone whatever color they are.

If you are breeding FOR app or pinto markings of course you do not want to cross them. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t and in any case are ineligible for their respective registries.

I find most of them quite striking. Some are ugly but so are some pintos, apps, dilutes, bay, chestnuts, blacks…

By the way a few of those in the pintaloosa album are just appaloosas. =)

Also high stockings and bald faces don’t really count as “pintaloosas”, it is the body spotting that is a problem with the ApHC.

Frame can be in any stock horse so even though it is rare IMO all of them should be tested unless you are breeding from long generations of totally solid horses. As long as one is already tested negative you don’t have to test the other for frame for that breeding.

[JB]

@summerhorse;4101116

Anyway it seems as though this mare in question totally missed out on the Lp (although she could carry pattern genes) and will not produce an Lp foal unless the stallion has it to offer. While this is also still possible there are fewer appy genes floating around the APHA gene pool because of the color mixing issue so the only color possible here would be a tobiano or tovero.

I’d love to see a better picture of the mare, but I agree, I don’t see anything remotely appy - no white sclera, no mottling. Does she have striped feet?

The mare from what I can see is gorgeous and the stallion is gorgeous and there appears to be SOME registry it can get “papers” from so what is the big deal? I see bizarre crosses of inferior horses every day. I see purebred inferior horses reproducing every day. I certainly do not recommend breeding grade horses but if the individuals are quality and well trained they will be valued by someone whatever color they are.
Agree - very nice looking stallion (and now I’m interested in him LOL!) and the mare seems to at least not be dogmeat :winkgrin:

Also high stockings and bald faces don’t really count as “pintaloosas”, it is the body spotting that is a problem with the ApHC.

Yep, here’s where your definition of “pinto” comes into play. White on faces and legs aren’t even considered pinto by the APHA, though technically they are the result of 1+ pinto patterns.

]Frame can be in any stock horse so even though it is rare IMO all of them should be tested unless you are breeding from long generations of totally solid horses. As long as one is already tested negative you don’t have to test the other for frame for that breeding.

Amen.

OP - if you don’t feel comfy at this point showing a full picture of your mare, could you PM a link to me? Although I think and hope that some folks on this thread are now suitably subdued about having condemned you :mad: that it would be great for them to see the quality I think your mare also has :yes:

[RegentLion]

Let me see if I understand…

1. Some people like pintaloosas, some people don’t. It is OK for people to have their personal preferences. We all have our “dream color.”

2. It seems to be an OK thing to breed a quality horse to a quality horse. Within reason-- a quality mini bred to a quality saddlebred might a little questionable, but two quality individuals of similar type seems to be what this board promotes generally. “Breed the best to the best and hope for the best.”

3. Concerns with the Paint (or Pinto) x Appaloosa cross are:
   –The quality of the registry. Some people feel that the registry is fine and others feel it is sketchy.

–Some people are afraid that others are breeding “fuglies” just to see what kind of color mishmash they are going to get. They aren’t breeding QUALITY to QUALITY but COLOR. By making the “breed” Pintaloosa popular, you get people trying to jump on the bandwagon and breeding their FUGLY Homozygous Tobi to their FUGLY Appaloosa to get the fashionable breed. These people don’t care or understand about movement, conformation, or ability.

–The fuglies that result from poor breedings (for color only) often don;t have a great chance at life. A newer/sort of sketch registry and little or no quality to keep them from the auction.

–There is concern over genes that can be hidden (not seen visibly) and can crop out later. Particularly the lethal white gene. If breeders of Pinto x App crosses aren’t really careful then they could end up with a baby with a genetic disorder.

Have I about covered it? Doesn’t seem like people are opposed to the PATTERN provided there was significant care /genetic mapping before the breeding took place to eliminate (or reduce) genetic disasters. Seems like people are worried about the FUTURE OF THE FOAL.

And I don’t think ANYONE of us is Ok with people breeding back yard horses of any color or breed. We don’t need any more craptastic horses in this world.

[Tango14]

[/QUOTE]OP - if you don’t feel comfy at this point showing a full picture of your mare, could you PM a link to me? Although I think and hope that some folks on this thread are now suitably subdued about having condemned you :mad: that it would be great for them to see the quality I think your mare also has :yes:[/QUOTE]

Suitably subdued? Good Lord:lol: You truly are up yourself.

Just browsed on by quickly so I haven’t seen the photos posted and have no wish to. My point was never that the conformation was in question, my point was, is and always will be that it is wrong to cross paints with Appaloosas. I don’t care if they’e Olympic qualifiers :lol: Period. And now I’m bored - give it up already you lot:yes:

[RiddleMeThis]

my point was, is and always will be that it is wrong to cross paints with Appaloosas.

WHY then? Because of color? Or what?

[JB]

I guess it’s wrong to breed a pinto to a gray or a chestnut to a homozygous black as well?

YOU don’t like the cross. So what. That doesn’t make it wrong.

You didn’t care to look at the pictures because you just might agree that the quality of the horses presented is nothing to laugh at, and the mare doesn’t seem to show ANY appy characteristics at all. Darn.

Sad that you might miss out on the next Calypso because of color :no:

[SilverSpringFarm]

[QUOTE=Tango14;4104852]
My point was never that the conformation was in question, my point was, is and always will be that it is wrong to cross paints with Appaloosas. I don’t care if they’e Olympic qualifiers :lol: Period. And now I’m bored - give it up already you lot:yes:[/QUOTE]

I don’t care for beige clothing.

I don’t care for flower print ANYTHING.

I don’t care for blue parakeets.

I don’t care for orange cats.

I don’t care for white cars.

I don’t care for solid black dogs.

I don’t care for CHESTNUT horses…

However… If you love all of those things I would never have the gall to say you were WRONG in your choices.

A person’s horse color preference is a matter of opinion. Right and wrong don’t apply. Get over yourself.

[JB]

@SilverSpringFarm;4105767

I don’t care for orange cats.
…

I don’t care for solid black dogs.

Hey now, dem’s fightin’ words! :lol::lol: You’re just…wrong! :winkgrin:

[Home_Again_Farm]

@JB;4105813

Hey now, dem’s fightin’ words! :lol::lol: You’re just…wrong! :winkgrin:

Ditto. I loves my orange kitties and black puppy dogs. :yes: :winkgrin: :lol::lol::lol:

[SilverSpringFarm]

LOL. Hold on you two, I’m looking at things from a purely aesthetic standpoint.

My childhood dog, one of the best dogs I ever owned, was black. I loved that dog to death but “my eyes” prefer brindles, blue merles or fawns…

I have owned two orange cats in my life. One is still with me and she is almost 21 years old! The vets are in awe. She’s perfectly healthy too, despite the fact that she only has about four teeth left…

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/34/l_99a1f1fc84289321e753ae3ead990c12.jpg

I love the coloration of Siamese cats for some reason. They are always my first choice!

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/44/l_4fe61af66607f333049c258bf08d4896.jpg

http://b4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00777/46/93/777963964_l.jpg

[JB]

Great pics!

You know I’m just teasing Orange kitties, like orange ponies, are not my first choice - my eye is drawn to dark and “different” colors. Cali-cats are my fav, followed closely by tortis. We were adopted by an orange (tan) female (yes!), totally clawless, missing all her little teeth from malnourishment, but she’s hysterical. She loves her little torti-cat Besides, how can you resist Buddha Kitty? Especially when she’s deep in thought

[3Dogs]

Hardest dog to get adopted out, according to Ron and Danny of Ron and Danny’s resuce, is an all black dog. Now I just want you all to meet my BAXTER! And futhermore, orange kitties are the coolest kitties around - my mother had a stray one who stayed with her till she moved to her Assisted Living then died at 27 years old!!! I know he finally felt he could go once she was safely ensconced in her new environment!

[JB]

@3Dogs;4106312

Hardest dog to get adopted out, according to Ron and Danny of Ron and Danny’s resuce, is an all black dog.

Wow, I don’t get that at all

Now I just want you all to meet my BAXTER!

Wow, does he know he’s hot stuff or what??!! :lol:

And futhermore, orange kitties are the coolest kitties around - my mother had a stray one who stayed with her till she moved to her Assisted Living then died at 27 years old!!! I know he finally felt he could go once she was safely ensconced in her new environment!

Awwww, and sniiiffffff and WOW!

[SilverSpringFarm]

[QUOTE=JB;4106309]
Great pics!

You know I’m just teasing Orange kitties, like orange ponies, are not my first choice - my eye is drawn to dark and “different” colors. Cali-cats are my fav, followed closely by tortis. We were adopted by an orange (tan) female (yes!), totally clawless, missing all her little teeth from malnourishment, but she’s hysterical. She loves her little torti-cat Besides, how can you resist Buddha Kitty? Especially when she’s deep in thought[/QUOTE]

Oh my god! Your orange kitty is just like my orange (tan) kitty! We adopted her from a shelter when she was 6. No claws, messed up teeth…

That buddha pic is hilarious! My Penelope does that too! I need to get some pics up of her. She is a strange color. She’s a torti/tabby combo.

Took Penelope from a barn I use to board at. She was just a kitten. They had WAY too many cats and it was only a matter of time before the entire litter got sick. They wouldn’t let me take the litter to a shelter to be adopted out. (Better to let them die of a respiratory infection?)

I figured I could save just one of them. At first I was drawn to the gorgeous calico kittens. Then I saw Penelope charge across the arena and pounce on a big black tom-cat… I knew then and there that she was the one. She is the weirdest, cutest, most entertaining cat I’ve ever owned. Oh, and she can’t meow either…

Say, you might find this interesting…
http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/genetics/medgen/chromo/mosaics.html

[SilverSpringFarm]

[QUOTE=3Dogs;4106312]
Hardest dog to get adopted out, according to Ron and Danny of Ron and Danny’s resuce, is an all black dog. Now I just want you all to meet my BAXTER! And futhermore, orange kitties are the coolest kitties around - my mother had a stray one who stayed with her till she moved to her Assisted Living then died at 27 years old!!! I know he finally felt he could go once she was safely ensconced in her new environment![/QUOTE]

Oh my god Baxter is precious!

I think the shelters really have trouble with the black lab mixes. I always see plenty of those there.

I think my orange kitty is going to make it to 30. The vet says he thinks she’s part Birman because of her shape. (She’s has very round Birman-like features.)

Vet says he put down a 34 year old Birman mix just a few weeks ago.

[JB]

@SilverSpringFarm;4106845

Oh my god! Your orange kitty is just like my orange (tan) kitty! We adopted her from a shelter when she was 6. No claws, messed up teeth…

Poor thing! Froggy ('cause her voice HAS to be part Siamese, or the like, was just horrendous in her emaciated, starving-for-attention state) found us behind a movie theater one day - ran up to us and jumped in our lap! All 4 feet are clawless However, it makes her REALLY fun to play with, and she takes full advantage

I figured I could save just one of them. At first I was drawn to the gorgeous calico kittens. Then I saw Penelope charge across the arena and pounce on a big black tom-cat…

LMAO! Yep, I’d have taken her too, but I’d have certainly taken as many calis as I could Our current cali came from the shelter, where we went a week after losing my soul-kitty Her back was to her door, and from behind her markings were eerily similar to my kitty’s sniff Had to get her I mean, how could anyone resist this? Well, obviously silly people could and did, because she was at the shelter for almost 3 months!

@SilverSpringFarm;4106858

I think the shelters really have trouble with the black lab mixes. I always see plenty of those there.

I don’t get it Black is so striking!

I think my orange kitty is going to make it to 30. The vet says he thinks she’s part Birman because of her shape. (She’s has very round Birman-like features.)

Vet says he put down a 34 year old Birman mix just a few weeks ago.

That’s awesome!!!

and oh heck, while we’re at it, the “common” gray and white tabby can also be very striking, as in, “strike the pose” Mr Montana Bob here

Here are the 4 in addition to Bobcat

[SilverSpringFarm]

[QUOTE=JB;4106884]
Poor thing! Froggy ('cause her voice HAS to be part Siamese, or the like…[/QUOTE]

Oh my. Kitty’s meow makes her sound like she’s been smoking a pack a day for her full 20 years… Ryan says she needs to lay off the whiskey! She yells at me first thing in the morning every morning. She likes her water bowl to get changed at least 5 times a day…

@JB;4106884

and oh heck, while we’re at it, the “common” gray and white tabby can also be very striking, as in, “strike the pose” Mr Montana Bob here

He is dangerously handsome… Truly!

@JB;4106884

Here are the 4 in addition to Bobcat

Here’s my most favoritest black dog that ever lived. Tippy. RIP. (That’s my best friend Heather laying with her.)

http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-forums/members/taliacristianna-albums-pets-picture16466-heather-and-tippy2.html

Best little dog, Larry. Jack Russel Chihuahua mix (we think):

http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-forums/members/taliacristianna-albums-pets-picture16465-cutest-thing-ever.html

And my beautiful one-eyed girl. Mya. Blue Heeler/Husky mix:

http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-forums/members/taliacristianna-albums-pets-picture16464-beautiful-girl.html

[JB]

All very beautiful!! I love OEG’s striking good looks and her lovely turquoise (?) jewelry