While perusing topics, I got to wondering why (to the best of my knowledge) there aren’t carts made for pairs? I’ve seen some cheapy mini easy entry carts advertised with a pair pole as an option, but never larger carts. I would assume its a structural or safety issue, but I’d love to pick your brains.
I will try to answer as best I can 
There are two-wheeled vehicles made for pairs, they are called Curricles. You may have better luck searching under that term. I believe Wikipedia has a page for them.
We have two at the farm I work at, though we don’t drive them frequently we will occasionally use them for demo’s. They are quite dangerous, which is why they didn’t last long in use during their time. The weight of the vehicle is supported from a metal bar that connects the two backpads of the horses with a leather strap that drops down and the pole is run through it. You need two very good horses that are as perfectly matched as possible. They also need to be very patient and quiet as you have to literally crawl between them to put to.
As far as I can tell those that drove Curricles did so as a ‘look what I can do’ show-off type of thing. Many people were injured/killed during the short time this vehicle was popular.
I hope that helped!
(My opinion, having done this turnout a few times is I’d rather not do it again, lol!)
There are also Cape Carts and Friese Sjees.
They are also called, “Iwouldnotbecaughtdeadinone” They scare the $h!% out of me.
You guys are infinitely informative, as usual. I had a good time googling information, given the correct terminology.
I found a few interesting pictures.
Cape cart:
http://www.pbase.com/conklink/adventures_in_a_cape_cart (A whole series)
http://www.pbase.com/conklink/image/95034347
http://ic2.pbase.com/o2/23/465523/1/97119148.6gHknC0C.capecart6.jpg
Friese Sjees:
http://www.oldtimerdagvianen.nl/images/evenementen/Sjees.jpg
Curricle:
http://img.over-blog.com/480x600/2/43/99/34/cocking-cart/HPIM0931.gif
http://img.over-blog.com/600x398/2/43/99/34/cocking-cart/Exposition-1878-006.jpg (3 horses!)
http://img.over-blog.com/600x450/2/43/99/34/cocking-cart/curricle-3.jpg
I understand the difficulty in hitching the curricle, but what makes it inherently more dangerous than a normal pair setup?
I can absolutely see the differences in the curricle and cape cart hitching/harness, but how does the Friese Sjees differ from a normal pair? The picture I could find of each look the same.
If you decided to own one of these vehicles with a different type of harness, where would you buy such a harness, or would it have to be custom made?
Carts are just not designed for a pair. As the most economical form of travel, the balance and structure is best and easiest served by a horse centered in front of the vehicle flanked by two fixed shafts.
Using a pair to a cart is a waste of horsepower, and done merely for show (the curricle) or for very rough overland travel that might benefit from a “spare” (the Cape Town cart which hails from South Africa). The ride would be rough in itself even if the going was perfectly smooth and the horses traveled in perfect step. You can’t get away from the motion of the horse like you can in a balanced singles cart, or a 4 wheeled vehicle.
In this day and age, as in the past, that harness for either of these types of vehicles would be custom made because “pairs cart” was rare enough back then, too.
It is dangerous due to the extreme torque that can be applied to the pole with two horses in the event that they shy, and the non-existent wheelbase that goes a long way to steady any vehicle. There is nothing to steady the vehicle except that pole. It can flip or be upset easier, and transmits more vibration of the road and horses directly to the vehicle.
It is not a safe or economical design, and the harness had to be custom made to fit the vehicle. Hence, they were rare enough to not be seen often at all in their heyday.
As for today - you can get away with a lot when driving minis. Enough said. 
I dont think it’s any safer driving mini pairs to a cart… They may not go as fast, but a mini can do just as much damage to a vehicle that a horse can if it all goes to heck in a handbasket…
I thought the 3 to a cart pics were interesting, especially from the seat view of how they hook and the bar going across the top of all three saddles. I could see that set up being much more stable maybe? But i would think the 3 would have to be one heck of a solid team to pull that off with the pole over the top, in that they really have no wiggle room to wobble away from each other at all.
In driving pairs, horses often have moments that they come “away” from the center pole. I cant imagine the torq put on the center pole if that were to happen if the horses are attached at both the front of the pole and at the saddle, especially when the front wheels cant work “independently” from rear wheels to keep the vehicle stable. I can see how easily you could tip this set up or just bust it to pieces.
I would think it would be much easier to drive a tandem. Though that in itself can be a challenge, i think it’s gaining in popularity and the parts to adapt single harnesses to tandem are readily available and you wouldnt need a special made cart to do it. I would really love to have a tandem pair one day, looked into buying a mare to match my cob for that purpose, but ended up sticking with singles, mostly because i drive a lot alone and that just isnt going to work with a tandem.
Gigs can be used as pairs carts, but usually driving the pair as a tandem (one horse in front of the other). Gotta’ be a good whip to drive these well.
What is shown in the photos isn’t a cape cart. It’s a village cart made by Carriage Machine Shop. I had one of these…only difference is hers was set up for a pole too! Nice carts, sit really high though.
[QUOTE=Trakehner;6101033]
What is shown in the photos isn’t a cape cart. It’s a village cart made by Carriage Machine Shop. I had one of these…only difference is hers was set up for a pole too! Nice carts, sit really high though.[/QUOTE]
True it is not a true Cape Cart, but the metal work underneath is pretty close, to my understanding. The way the cart is sprung, ride inside, the way the pole is supported by the animals. Not like the Curricle at all. Kathleen worked very hard with a number of other folks who had the Cape Cart information and the details, before they got things worked out. The pole and neck yoke setup of a Cape Cart isn’t like any other one on vehicles worldwide.
True Cape Cart body is rather crude compared to the Village Cart, somewhat heavier, probably not as usable/versatile in these more modern times. Bigger, wide wheels, not the light wheels of the Village Cart.
Cape carts are a very unique design, folding top, did a pretty terrific job as support vehicle to the Boers in South Africa during the battles, and also hauling freight over no-road countryside. Mules in various combinations were the chosen draft animal used to pull these. Cape Carts were extremely speedy for the conditions they travelled in, got the loads where needed in a timely manner.
I wouldn’t call a Gig a Pairs cart. Haven’t ever seen one with a pole, which doesn’t mean someone hasn’t made one like that!! I think of Gigs as suitable for fancy Single horses. When I talk Pairs, horses are used side-by-side, not in any other configuration. Gig used with a Tandem is easy to picture, probably fairly commonly used behind Tandems if you don’t have a specialty vehicle.
Here is a video of a Curricle hitched and being driven. Been popping up in other locations and a great example of the vehicle in action. Shows the length, well balanced advantage a light Curricle could have in being speedy for it’s time, with two horses for power.
Do notice that the whole turnout stays pretty level, not jolting the passengers. Footman weight and location has to help with the balance of the turnout. True they are not on a road, but Curricle does look like a fun ride! I would definately volunteer for a ride!!
I think the horses on here are well matched, equal in height, way of going, which is a requirement for a Curricle Pair to keep the Curricle Bar level, pole riding level, horses even in stride. Not a vehicle for the less expert driver, she is driving and managing those horses all the time to keep them moving evenly along. Too bad the ring is so small and we don’t know what is being asked for in the class. Would be very nice to see them moving out straight for a bit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMMCimt8Bkg
Looking at the photos of the way the 3-Abreast on the Curricle is set up, reins run, I don’t think any equine is being driven except the center horse. Both reins on the outside horses are like ridden reins, buckled together! Just a straight back pull. The reins are then run to the center horse reins and buckled in there too. Much a “show-off” hitch. From other interesting videos posted by others, the folks on the Iberian Peninsula do seem to enjoy flashy turnouts and various combinations of horses!! I like watching the videos, thanks to those who have posted them.
The other 3-Abreast set-ups I have seen were American, put on Breaks usually. Reins were NOT set up like the photos on here. Driver actually drove all the horses and reins affected each of the 3 for turns and halts. Even with smaller animals, that is a WIDE turnout, horses outside the wheel widths. They do fill up their lane of the road! Very neat to see them being driven.
Cool video of the curricle. I too wanna ride on that one! I was most impressed with their backing. Not that I would ever ask one to back that far, but I could not have kept one horse that straight for that distance, let alone two and backing with speed!
Well…Pacific Carts up in BC, Canada, builds a decidedly NON-‘cheapy’ miniature horse cart, designated the ‘Smart Cart’, and the builder has within the past several years begun marketing a team pole for it. It is a cart best suited(IMO and that of some others)for the ‘larger’, over 34"-38", miniatures. Because of the good reputation of the builder, I would LOVE to hear from anyone who actually has used this team pole for their pair of miniatures…what they think about it, how it works.
Margo in NM(aka olehossgal)
Looking at the photos of Curricle again, I evidently only looked at the horses and reins. This vehicle is NOT a Curricle, but appears to be a Cocking Cart. The harness is set up like a Curricle with the bar, strap and spring balancing pole. Just not the correct body for a Curricle.
http://a21.idata.over-blog.com/600x398/2/43/99/34/cocking-cart/Exposition-1878-006.jpg
[QUOTE=narbut.m;6111565]
Nice cart but to oldish for me.[/QUOTE]
The Curricle and the Cocking Cart are “oldish” now, but were THE sports car models of their time. Certainly the design chosen by stylish young men to show off their driving skills, flair with the reins, when the designs were new.
Nothing like them in modern vehicles. You probably would win with them in Pleasure Showing where they would be most suited these days.
Is there something happening here? I can’t see posts 15 and 16 that show in the list of posts behind the question. This post is showing as number 15 to me. Thanks
[QUOTE=goodhors;6158306]
Is there something happening here? I can’t see posts 15 and 16 that show in the list of posts behind the question. This post is showing as number 15 to me. Thanks[/QUOTE]
Just spammers. Two of them. Duly reported and removed.
what makes it inherently more dangerous than a normal pair setup?
[QUOTE=google2012;6158369]
what makes it inherently more dangerous than a normal pair setup?[/QUOTE]
Read post #6.
Please tell the amish that a forecart is a waste and not practical.
LF, a forecart is not a pleasure cart, and has a LOT of low level weight to help keep it down on both wheels. If Amish or the working draft folks are using it, then they may almost always have equipment hooked on behind. That changes the pull and balance a lot more, making the horses have an easier job. I think of forecarts as horse tractors, designed so you just hitch up to your farm equipment and go to work with it.
We got a forecart back when we first had a Pair. LOOKED like it was a GREAT idea!! Homemade like most of them, but it was VERY HEAVY, especially on the tongue end. It made our horses neck sore in just a short time. Our weight in the seat did nothing to balance the tongue. Heavy axle, big car tires that I THINK were loaded! All great for keeping the shiny side up, not easy for light horses to manage. Drafts probably would have no problem. We only used it once, and the man I sold it to was happy to have it. He was going to use the forecart as designed, for attaching machinery on. Not driving for fun like us.
Forecart is designed to be used with an attached piece of equipment behind, which lightens up the tongue weight for better balance. Attached equipment (spreader, drag, plow) will turn the forecart into a 4-wheel vehicle (more stable with more parts on the ground), using a hinge joint in the middle to turn instead of pivoting under the driver seat.
Nothing wrong with forecarts, but I think of them as tools for working horses, not carriages. That is why I never thought to mention them. I wouldn’t consider a horse drawn plow or rake with a seat on it, to be a carriage either. They are a farm tool, an implement. And few folks would take plow or rake on long drives for fun. Guess they might go a distance drive with the forecart, but not something I see often.
