I realize many ads in The Chronicle tend to be self-serving but this one just about turned my stomach.
Isn’t he about due for a ten year review? 
LOL InWhyCee you know what I meant! 
Horses/Animals - same difference!! 
It is for the welfare of a non -human
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Portia:
Ugh. I don’t know whether it is a good thing or a bad thing to be this naive about how some perverted people think. 
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
great thing about the internet is that we now have the information - and when these issues are raised then we can educate others
with education comes choice - you can choose to support heinous individuals (taking lessons, attending clinics, etc) or you can choose to boycott same
I wish there was a way to post the bios of the horses that were killed. I wish I had kept that particular Chronicle.
Welcome, Scotchie, thanks for another eye opener on Paul.
A bandage bow is a mistake. Using the wrong bit is a mistake. Even one too many bute MIGHT be a mistake. Plugging a horse into a tent lightbulb socket and alligator clipping it to the nose and anus is NOT a mistake…It is a premeditated depraved act of cruelty. I was there that year. It wasn’t pretty. (Sugarbush VT 19??)
PS To be clear, he didn’t “do it” he contracted someone to do it.
Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way…
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hey Wonder Why - is this a state in the northeast?
Such a wonderful selfless guy. Always doing the right thing, for the right reasons. I would leave my kid with him.
(NOT)
Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way…
As a younger generation rider who didn’t really becomed involved in the horse world until the early 90’s, this thread has bee both eye opening and has encouraged me to research the facts about these killings.
The stories are appalling! I read both news articles and some “fiction” books based on these actual incidents and I cried. How anyone could do these things to innocent animals is absolutely disgusting and beyond me.
I’m not going to comment on PV or the people who train with him…I think most of you can determine how I feel about them, but I want to THANK everyone whose has posted about these incidents because they SHOULD NOT be forgotten.
Do you all not have anything better to do? I am neither defending nor attacking this man - it’s over, it’s done with, it’s been dealt with. Give it a rest.
PS: If Leona and Godolphin etc. did not publicize their contributions, how did you guys know about them, huh? Let’s apply the same standard.
Someone said that Paul has unofficialy been hired to judge what I am guessing is the NH Medal Finals.
That their trainer used to ride with him and still keeps in touch with him.
BUT you are considering NOT riding in the Finals.
You support her, she supports him. Yet he is the one that you have the gripe with. I sense a little incontinuity there.
And to the other person who posted something like, those of us who are so quick to forgive him either are unaware of what he did or it must not be so abnormal to us. That was a cheap shot. (if I could figure out how to post verbatim quotes it would be helpful)
I know I will never forget what Paul, Barney, Tommy, George and Dana did to those horses. Or what they have done to the image of our sport. I think it was heinous. I think they ALL acted immorally, maliciously and irresponsibly. I do not think it was totally unforgiveable.
When a criminal is handed a sentence, he is expected to serve it. When it is finished, the crime is supposed to have been paid for. I don’t believe that this washes the crime away. Nor do I feel that the sentence is always appropriate.
Do I think that those of you who oppose Paul are wrong? Of course not. And I would never dream of trying to change your mind.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord Helpus:
Yep, Paul rents a place adjacent to Wellington and his people school in his ring and walk on over to show. They have been doing that for years.
[This message was edited by Lord Helpus on Oct. 31, 2001 at 07:57 PM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
okay - so PV keep teaching, coaching, buying/selling, training, without any severe crimp in lifestyle - what happened to the rest of the miscreants? Does Lindeman stil have Cellular Farms? what about the vet - was the license pulled?
I don’t think at this point it’s about changing anyone’s mind, because you’re right, those who strongly support him are not going to be changed by what’s said here.
Instead, I think it’s about opening people’s minds, or eyes - in particular, the people who have either never heard about this (especially the younger readers), or the people who may be “undecided” because they haven’t got the facts.
For this reason, I hope you’ll let the thread live on, so long as the tone remains as it is.
Good Book Good Book!!!
And if I’m not mistaken it also lists all the people directly or indirectly involved!! Good book!
Yeehaw- Formerly RF
COTH BB Resident Cowgirl
"She’s gone country… look at them boots, shes gone country… back to her roots, shes gone country, a new kind of suit… SHES GONE COUNTRY!! HERE SHE COMES!!! 
Bronk, Michelle Mc is the criminal law lawyer, so listen to her answer – I’m just a corporate civil defense litigator, which for better or worse is a whole 'nother world from crim law.
I think I see what you are saying, Bronk, and largely agree with it. What I take from your posts is that in your opinion blanket condemnation is not the way to go. Everyone, every parent, should take the responsibility to learn as much as possible about the people with whom they and their children associate, and should make their own decisions about what they feel is both safe and morally appropriate for them as individuals – and should then take the proper precautions consistent with those decisions. (Forgive me if I’m putting words in your mouth. 
)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MargaretF:
I liked what the Chronicle did a couple of years ago - they had a section with the biographies of the murdered horses.
I’ll never forget Rub the Lamp. That horse won everything.
[QUOTE]
Weird timing: I was sitting by the fireplace las night reading an old HORSES magazine from 1989 with Greg Best and Gem Twist on the cover, and Rub the Lamp is in it! Lynne Williams (Emily’s mom–and I am so sorry to hear that Lynne passed away recently…) had just bought him and was cleaning up down in Arizona. There was a really cute picture of a very young Emily as well.
Portia got it mostly right, except I’m pretty sure Converse was the trainer of the dead horse, as well. The horse had to die off the farm which was why the overnight stabling in the city was so important. It was the groom who called the cops and certainly the rider loved her horse. Daddy was a sleaze and represented all the owners in real life who arranged their horses’ demise.
The police get the father to wear a wire to get the actual horse killer on tape. He fingers Converse in turn for murdering the heiress. What I’m waffling on is which participant, in the real story, wore the wire that tripped up the others. Who remembers? 
~Kryswyn~
“Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo”
Oh come on cbv…you surely jest…the cattle INDUSTRY is far flung from killing horses for profit when YOUR judgement is WRONG and you need to bail out without “losing face” with the customer you suckered into buying the next coming of Gem Twist. Those animals are bred and raised for slaughter (regardless of your feelings thereof) but in this country horses are NOT. Some even consider them companion animals. Maybe PV could go into the beef industry. He seems to show aptitude for tat job.
Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way…
All of them. I put PV’s name through a search engine to find out who he was and after a couple of intense tries I finally came up with this:
“In 1998 thirteen owners and trainers suffered expulsion from the American Horse Show Association for anywhere from five to twenty five years after their horses suffered much worse fates than they. Nancy Banfield, from New York, arranged to have her horse, Rub The Lamp, electrocuted. Lisa Brandon participated in the murder of the horse Cloud Castle. Jerry Farmer, from Georgia, was involved in electrocution schemes. Ross Hugi, D.V.M., witnessed a trainer kill the horse Jatomic Streaker by flipping him out of a horse trailer and beating the horse to death with a hammer. He then falsified the cause of death records. Alan Levinson, from Illinois, schemed to kill Rainman, who was later electrocuted. George Lindemann JR, from Florida, and Marion Hulick, from Massachusetts, hired a killer to electrocute Charisma, who brought $250,000 in insurance money. Ronald Mueller from Spring Grove, Illinois killed many horses by means of sledgehammer, crowbar, live cremation, and electrocution. Barney Ward of Brewster, New York, arranged to electrocute four horses. Steve Williamson of Chicago, Illinois stood “lookout” while the electrocution of Empire took place. He later helped create the colic symptoms that would be deemed the cause of death.”
from a good article at http://www.horse-country.com/jriders/papers/lindsay/index.html
Found this on another newspaper engine:
The complete list of the accused:
Kenneth Hansen, 61, of Chicago, three counts of murder; Richard Bailey, 65, of Chicago, racketeering, mail and wire fraud, money laundering, and crimes relating to murder; Robert Brown of Michigan, racketeering, mail and wire fraud; Jerry Farmer, 61, of Augusta, Ga., racketeering, impeding the IRS; Dr. Ross Hugi, 50, of Mundelein, Ill., wire fraud (pleaded guilty); Barney Ward, 50, of Brewster, N.Y., mail and wire fraud, obstruction of justice, threatening a witness, and conspiracy; George Lindemann Jr., 30, of Greenwich, Conn., wire fraud; Marion Hulick, 60, of Greenwich, Conn., wire fraud; Paul Valliere, 43, North Smithfield, R.I., conspiracy; Nancy Banfield, 36, of Mathews, Va., conspiracy; Donna Brown, 37, of Palm Beach, Fla., wire fraud; Tim Ray a.k.a. Tom Burns, conspiracy; Dr. Dana Tripp, 34, of Valencia, Pa., conspiracy, failure to file tax returns, and concealing a felony; Johnnie Youngblood, 32, of Napierville, Ill., mail fraud; Steve Williamson, 51, of Plainfield, Ill., mail fraud; Tammie Glaspie, 36, of Walker, Mich., mail fraud; James Hutson, 53, of Winona, Mich., mail fraud; Alan Levinson, 52, of Highland Park, Ill., mail fraud (pleaded guilty); Michael Hunter, 45, of Mundelein, Ill., mail fraud (pleaded guilty); Donna Hunter, 43, of Mundelein, mail fraud; Phil Sudakoff, 76, of Chicago, mail fraud; Herb Kroninger, 53, of Bolingbrook, Ill., mail fraud; Scott Thompson, conspiracy; Ron Mueller, 62, formerly of Harvard, Ill., lying to federal peace officer.
Are many of these people back in business!?
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My mother always said:
“There’s none so blind as those that won’t see.”
