Paul valliere

[HorseShowMama]

[QUOTE=VarsityHero4;2661503]
You clearly didn’t read my post fully. He warned us BEFORE I rode the horse that there might be something going on but it might be just from scratches (she had those too and wasn’t lame on it), LOWERED the price significantly, and then LOWERED it by half. If he just wanted to get rid of the horse and let somebody else find out I think he would have been smart enough to just say that the swelling was from the scratches don’t you think? The horse wasn’t on consignment, it was imported by him.[/QUOTE]

You clearly didn’t read MY post fully. I wasn’t saying he was lying to you or trying to trick you, I said he did not have the HORSE’S best interest at heart. If he did, he would have given her a little time off and had the vet out BEFORE he had her jump around with a swollen leg.

If he owned the horse, and thus could not send her back because she was less than perfect and was going to take some time to sell, where is the virtue in keeping her while she healed? What was his other option, electrocute her? Oh yeah, he couldn’t do that, people are on to him…

[findeight]

@Thomas_1;2661535

And here’s the poster that the English word “pillock” was invented for!

Whoops what a silly mistake… Something anyone could easily have done. Went and electrocuted the horse by mistake and then by mistake submitted a fraudulent claim for $75,000 to the Insurance company and then whoops another mistake.

GOT CAUGHT, GOT BANNED

No, Thomas1…he did not electrocute the horse. He made another silly little mistake and hired somebody to do it for him.

[Janet]

What Amy Tryon did WAS a “mistake” made in the heat of competition. But she did not get up in the morning PLANNING for the horse to be dead.

What Paul V did was a PREMEDITATED FELONY. He got up in the morning PLANNING for the horse to be dead, so he could be RICHER.

[shmeg_33]

[QUOTE=To the MAX;2661067]
I can’t believe there are actually people here standing up for him. That is unbelievable to me. :eek:[/QUOTE]
Yes. This seriously worries me. If they’re standing up for him…and he did something like that again…what would they say? “Oh. It’s only his SECOND horse. I mean, it’s not like he runs around with alligator clippers every night. Just every few years.” Uhm. Yea…not gonna cut it for me.

@SaturdayNightLive;2661167

Call me crazy, but I would be scared as hell that he was doing his own night checks…

You aren’t kidding!! Jesus christ…the day I let PV do his OWN night checks around my horses is the day all goes to hell.:no:

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=findeight;2661560]
No, Thomas1…he did not electrocute the horse. He made another silly little mistake and hired somebody to do it for him.[/QUOTE]

Whoops, sorry. My mistake! :winkgrin:

Now where did I put those crocodile clips and that insurance policy?

[Saddletramp_29]

Please come to some kind of order here. Paul Valiere did not come up with this, he was not the ring leader. He subscribed to a “service” being offered by others. The problem here was certainly greed, but not for insurance money, not at first. He and SEVERAL many others sold horses to clients at inflated prices on their reputations, that these were fine show horse prospects. Horses turned out to have problems: no lead change, to hot, hard to ride, ect. As more and more of these situations arose a “service” was created. No way to get the money out of these horses so insure them, you know the rest.
As I stated earlier one of these people deeply involved with the “service” got house arrest and no suspention by the AHSA and won a national championship. That is called a plea bargining deal. Must work for you ALL as she is not shunned or banned and she had a hand in nearly every death. Others elluded investigators and continue to carry on as if heros. This “service” was only offered to those top professionals capable of selling high six figure horses. So who do you think was on this list?
Now is it about the horse killing or just about the insurance fraud? If a client sent a horse to me to ride and show and I left it in the stall without water,and it died, that wouldn’t be so bad right? Is that really what you all think. Died of “accidental” neglect? Findeight, I wish you were here so I could administer a good (corporal punishment) to you. To so cavalierly dismiss GM and CK roles in the death of a fine horse because no insurance money was involved. PV didn’t kill your horse but hang him in hell. GM and CK didn’t kill your horse but we’ll give them a little bye on that. Just a little mistake on their part.They showed no remorse and did not even offer an apology to the horse’s owner. Some of you might have caught my rant about people calling themselves mommys. Well in this case, as this owner actually bred the horse, was there at it’s birth and singlehandedly probably saved both dam and foal herself, I think she could rightfully call herself a mommy. She sent her horse to top pro’s at top dollar on full care. Her horse is dead. These people were held responsible in a court of law. No magazine write up, no COTH thread about it, just on to Olympic glory and you all still shovel money to these people in buckets. There is plenty of shame to pass around here.

[Jaegermonster]

[QUOTE=Saddletramp 29;2661642]
Please come to some kind of order here. Paul Valiere did not come up with this, he was not the ring leader. He subscribed to a service being offered by others. The problem here was certainly greed, but not for insurance money, not at first. He and SEVERAL[/QUOTE]

yes we know. But the thread isn’t about “he and several”. I believe it’s titled “Paul Valliere”

[HorseShowMama]

[QUOTE=Saddletramp 29;2661642]
The problem here was certainly greed, but not for insurance money, not at first. [/QUOTE]

I agree with the previously stated opinion that it’s the TORTURE/CRUELTY that really upsets me and no details of motive are going to change my opinion on that - but just for the record, if it wasn’t insurance money, what was it?

[Molly_Malone]

[QUOTE=HorseShowMama;2661656]
I agree with the previously stated opinion that it’s the TORTURE/CRUELTY that really upsets me and no details of motive are going to change my opinion on that - but just for the record, if it wasn’t insurance money, what was it?[/QUOTE]

Glory? Honor? Integrity? The respect of one’s peers?

Scientific research?

$hits and grins?

pah!

[Janet]

In reality, I think there would be such a spotlight on any horse that died in PV’s care, that the horses are pretty safe.

But I have to believe that the attitude that lead to a PREMEDITATED FELONY in order to protect financial status and professional “reputation” is still there.

[findeight]

I am not glossing over the neglect case. At ALL.

Not like they hired somebody to neglect it and collected the payout when it died. And that is what this PV thread is about, premeditation in hiring a horsey hit man specifically to kill the horse and defrauding the insurance…not to mention the wink wink at the “suspension” and all this posturing about what a good person he is coinciding with a possible reinstatement time frame.

[VarsityHero4]

[QUOTE=HorseShowMama;2661553]
You clearly didn’t read MY post fully. I wasn’t saying he was lying to you or trying to trick you, I said he did not have the HORSE’S best interest at heart. If he did, he would have given her a little time off and had the vet out BEFORE he had her jump around with a swollen leg.

If he owned the horse, and thus could not send her back because she was less than perfect and was going to take some time to sell, where is the virtue in keeping her while she healed? What was his other option, electrocute her? Oh yeah, he couldn’t do that, people are on to him…[/QUOTE]

It sounds to me like didn’t want to wait for her to heal, he wanted to sell her before anyone realized she was going to be out for a while.

Note that he was still talking about what a great match it was when it was clear she was out.

What would accusing him of those things imply? That he was trying to trick me? Like I said, the horse was not lame AT ALL and the swelling was minor. Have any of you ever pulled your horse out a little swollen or off and rode them to see if they worked out of it? Any of you have a horse that swells up on a regular basis but never goes lame? Do you ride them? When I tried her it’s not like I was jumping her 4’ and doing hard flat work. I w/t/c quickly and jumped a few fences at 2’9’’-3’ because he didn’t want her working too hard. His other options were to sell her for dirt dirt cheap to get rid of her, board her at a less expensive barn, or give her away completely. Like I said, human murderers get second chances, what’s wrong with setting him on the right path?

[findeight]

@VarsityHero4;2661807

. Like I said, human murderers get second chances, what’s wrong with setting him on the right path?

Not all agree with giving human murderers, especially murder for hire either payee or payer, second chances. One thing to lose one’s temper or truely make a mistake as opposed to spending time working out the details of a paid killing and deliberate fraud for profit. We have to hit the fraud part because our laws treat the animals only as property.

It’s up to us to keep as clean a house as we can or we get PETA on the doorstep. Pointing a finger at another sad case does nothing to excuse this particular, well thought out until he got caught fraud either.

[jetsmom]

Human murderers get a long jail term, and are rarely welcomed with open arms back into society. Especially if it was someone in a particular job field…ie postal worker that went “postal”. I hardly think he would be accepted back at the post office.
It’s more comparable to allowing Vick to get a job at a dog breeding kennel teaching the class on obedience training.

[TKR]

Well any system is flawed, including our legal system that allows murderers another opportunity (i.e. OJ – not even convicted first go-round). However, I always have to wonder about anyone that can inflict cruelty or death with no conscience about the living being they’ve harmed or killed, it’s only about what they can get from it. I don’t think you change a sociopath or insert a conscience, integrity or compassion. It’s simply an act – they are only sorry they got caught and lost business and suffered repercussions. Did anyone hear Vick say ANYTHING about the dogs he so violently murdered in his statement? It was all about himself – growing up (??), making changes to redeem himself, etc. etc. ad nauseum – not a word about what he did or the animals that suffered. Nor has he done anything for the ones left destined to be euthanized. He should have set up a sanctuary and fund for them to live out their lives in some sort of comfort. No, those like PV or MV or anyone else that can do things that disgusting are not reformed or sorry for their actions or feel any grief for the animals – it’s only about themselves and they are sorry they were caught. I can never excuse it nor would I ever trust any of them. Would you trust the killer who raped and buried that child alive if he said he was sorry and got out of jail? I doubt it. The only difference is the “act” they put on hoping people will buy into it. Blah blah blah! As my Mama would have said “I wouldn’t trust them in the toilet with a muzzle on!”.
PennyG

[Mayaty02]

[QUOTE=jetsmom;2661818]
Human murderers get a long jail term, and are rarely welcomed with open arms back into society. Especially if it was someone in a particular job field…ie postal worker that went “postal”. I hardly think he would be accepted back at the post office.
It’s more comparable to allowing Vick to get a job at a dog breeding kennel teaching the class on obedience training.[/QUOTE]

absolutely, and is why they don’t let convicted child molesters associate with children. He shouldn’t be able to associate with horses, that’s all…let him go find another career. Oh I’m sorry I forgot, because he’s such an honest, remorseful guy, he decided to skirt the USEF and continue in horses anyway. Oh yeah, that’s the greed thing again.

Now, as someone else posted, if he sits down with each and every new person that comes to see him interested in riding with him, and goes over what he did, why and shows that he’s truly remorseful…well…maybe, just maybe…no I guess I still can’t forgive him. But I am curious as to whether or not he does that, any one of you ladies who rides him with have that conversation on your first visit? If so, what did he say?

[Queen_Latisha]

How anybody could associate with a man who had a horse killed, is beyond me. :eek:

[CuriosoJorge]

Saddletramp, I know the other person you mentioned who is still in business. I wouldn’t do business with Paul, and I wouldn’t do business with her, either. Plenty of people remember those who got caught. Those of us who have been in the business for awhile have heard plenty of rumor and innuendo about people who should have been caught, too. For newbies, threads like this serve a valuable service to educate them.

[buryinghill4]

From the time it took to start this thread - to the current post, PV probably made another $199K

Ban him for life… he’s still making more money being off the showgrounds than most horsefolks

[dutchmike]

[QUOTE=CuriosoJorge;2661940]
Saddletramp, I know the other person you mentioned who is still in business. I wouldn’t do business with Paul, and I wouldn’t do business with her, either. Plenty of people remember those who got caught. Those of us who have been in the business for awhile have heard plenty of rumor and innuendo about people who should have been caught, too. For newbies, threads like this serve a valuable service to educate them.[/QUOTE]

Educate them ?. Some of these people are here defending the guy and others like him. Honestly anyone that thinks stuff should be forgiven etc are not worthy of owning a goldfish and even less one of our 4 legged noble friends.:mad: