I think some of the outrage, and I know that this applies to me, is that he (and to be fair - the rest of the pack) has not been prohibited from participating in horse shows.
But he HAS been " prohibited from participating in horse shows" until further notice.
It just isn’t “permanent”. He has the right to apply to have it lifted.
ok, let me rephrase that.
He has not been STOPPED from participating in horse shows. His students show, his horses show, he coaches from just off the grounds, his students flaunt his presence. He is a presence at horse shows in defiance of a wishywashy organization.
Ya think? :lol:
[QUOTE=RugBug;2663215]
Any discussion of motivation is hearsay. Many, many posters on this thread makes huge assumptions as to why PV did what he did, that he doesn’t regret it, only that he got caught, etc. We had the holocaust comparion pages and pages back…I thought that was suppose to end any attempt at reasonable discussion. 
Many people are incapable of logical, unemotional discussion on this topic. The assumptions and suppositions fly. They can’t even see that they are making assumptions.
FWIW, I’m not a PV supporter, but neither am I a hater. There’s just too much missing information for me to make an informed decision on motivations, regret, remorse, etc.[/QUOTE]
I’m wondering what missing information would make you support him?
[QUOTE=Ghazzu;2661255]
You are delusional, dearest.[/QUOTE] Disillusioned would be a better word… after having spent almost 20 years hanging around the people that make their money off horses at every level… I have seen and heard (what I consider) despicable things from the people that make their living off these creatures… Does this mean that I think that each and every last one of them has the attitude that the horses are expendable? Obviously not… but I do have the opinion that the Industry as a whole operates with the attitude that the horses are expendable… did you think I just woke up one morning and arrived at that conclusion just for fun? Do I need to tell you how I felt the first time I heard a trainer refer to a clients horse as “excellent ALPO”? …
For me it would pretty much take the discovery of a hitherto unknown evil twin…
[QUOTE=Janet;2663026]
IIRC, there was also the issue of PRIDE and professional reputaion.
One of the people convicted in the insurance cases (not sure which one) had bought an expensive, successful horse. But the horse did not go well for him, so he had an expensive unsuccessful horse. My understanding was that at least part of the motive was that he did not want to admit that he could not ride the horse as well as the previous rider.[/QUOTE]
That would be George Lindemann Jr. and Charisma.
Personally, I don’t really give a big fat rat’s ass about what any of them were thinking or feeling or what their motivations were for their actions. Let me sum it up for you: (and this is directed in general, not at Janet)
They were selfish, greedy people who’s only thought was what they wanted, what they needed and what was best for them, with no thought for any other living breathing creature.
Period.
I never said there would be information out there that would make me support him. Don’t try to villify me just because I’m not going to jump on the emotional ‘string-him-up’ bandwagon a lot of people seem to be on.
I’m just not willing to make assumptions about his motivations. He did what he did. I don’t know why he did it. I don’t know if he regrets it or just regrets that he got caught. I don’t know what he tells prospective clients. I don’t know how he treats horses in his care. And the vast majority of posters on this thread don’t know that information either. That is all.
Rug, not trying to villlify you here, just asked a simple question, nothing more… The bottom line is that we will never really have those answers, far as what he truly feels… and personally I would rather not go to that dark place in that mans head… I dont think there is a “string him up bandwagon”, instead, there are people that think what he did was monsterous, no matter what his thoughts were, are, or will be…and that he should be held accountable for his actions, and step aside once and for all.
Why do his motivations matter?
[QUOTE=Lessonlady;2662832]
Even murderers of people who go to jail get out sometimes. How long does he need to pay his debt? How can he prove he’s a changed man? He is and was a talented horseman who made a huge error in judgement and regrets it big time. What should he do for a living now? Flip burgers?[/QUOTE]
But they are still convicted felons and there are still some things they cannot do, like vote, carry a weapon etc. Just like child molesters and sex offenders. They do their time and get out but it never goes away. They have to register their address and be monitored for the rest of their lives, and there are also things they can’t do depending on the nature of their offense. They don’t just get a clean slate and everything goes away.
He could prove to me he is a changed man by respecting the court rulings and those of the USEF and not giving them and every one of us the finger every time he taunts them by continuing to train and coaching his students by cell phone and so on.
Just a little aside: If and when Micheal Vick is banned from the NFL he will quickly find work in the Areana football league or the Canadian football league or the European football league.
I’m just not willing to make assumptions about his motivations. He did what he did. I don’t know why he did it. I don’t know if he regrets it or just regrets that he got caught. I don’t know what he tells prospective clients. I don’t know how he treats horses in his care. And the vast majority of posters on this thread don’t know that information either.
This is correct. If the emotional, hateful posts were deleted from this thread it would be many pages shorter.
No Vick won’t be going to either league. Both of them have instituted rules in the last few years because they became aware that they were the dumping ground for all the miscreants from the NFL and they got sick of it. So they have rules now that basically if you are a reject from the NFL for criminal activity they don’t want you either.
But at least VIck and most of the players in the NFL have made no attempt to hide what they are: THUGS. It’s what they are, where they came from and where they always return. Unlike PV and many others.
"You can put a bonnet on an ugly baby, but it’s still just an ugly baby, and no way am I gonna kiss it "- Tommy Ford, count commissioner, Nassau County, FL Oct. 06
But at least VIck and most of the players in the NFL have made no attempt to hide what they are: THUGS. It’s what they are, where they came from and where they always return.:eek::eek::eek:
[QUOTE=BarbB;2663250]
ok, let me rephrase that.
He has not been STOPPED from participating in horse shows. His students show, his horses show, he coaches from just off the grounds, his students flaunt his presence. He is a presence at horse shows in defiance of a wishywashy organization.[/QUOTE]
How can that be???:no:
[QUOTE=Fairview Horse Center;2663092]
Yes, you are, both, emotionally & financially.
OK, but the answer to how he can “make amends” is to get out of horses. He may have asked for the chance, but is ignoring the requirement. If he wants “forgiveness” it is in his hands. He needs to do the right thing for the animals, the sport, and the industry. As long as he does not, he is just proving what a selfish, greedy person he is.[/QUOTE]
I am emotionally and financially supporting a man who was guilty of a crime, and has been paying for it emotionally and financially since then.
You’re very right…he does need to do the right thing for the animals…and he has, and is.
There is a mile long list of both financial, and personal offerings he has made…This is I DO know is true, as I have been there for it.
Paul may have been selfish and greedy, and stupid to boot…but after 23 years, and a lot of hard time, I believe people do learn from their mistakes, and become better people because of it.
I can continue to stone the man, or let him try to do the world some good. I think giving someone a chance to make amends is a much better option.
Motivations can determine if someone truly is ‘evil’, delights in that evil, or if other factors were at play.
They can also give you a clue if that same person is truly changed or not. I would hate to live in a world that doesn’t give someone a chance to change.
Yes we have all seen the self serving and grandiose full page ads he has placed in the COTH and other venues for our viewing pleasure.
I would be impressed 1) if he had done it BEFORE the horse killing as well as after, and 2) if he quietly and discreetly donated his time, $$, whatever to various causes but did not promote it. Word would spread just by word of mouth.
FWIW, I did know PV before the horse killings etc and he was an A#$ then. My trainer got a horse from him for one of her Big Eq kids, and when we were trying the horse and so on I saw him do some things in his barn that made my hair curl.
I was always taught that if you do something so others will see it and think how great you are it is not really charity.
Charity is thinking of others, not yourself. Haven’t seen PV do that yet.
“What should he do for a living now? Flip burgers?”
Yeah - in France
Yeah - in France :lol::lol::lol::lol:
