Paul valliere

[anthem35]

[QUOTE=Jaegermonster;2663644]
Yes we have all seen the self serving and grandiose full page ads he has placed in the COTH and other venues for our viewing pleasure.
I would be impressed 1) if he had done it BEFORE the horse killing as well as after, and 2) if he quietly and discreetly donated his time, $$, whatever to various causes but did not promote it. Word would spread just by word of mouth.
FWIW, I did know PV before the horse killings etc and he was an A#$ then. My trainer got a horse from him for one of her Big Eq kids, and when we were trying the horse and so on I saw him do some things in his barn that made my hair curl.

I was always taught that if you do something so others will see it and think how great you are it is not really charity.

Charity is thinking of others, not yourself. Haven’t seen PV do that yet.[/QUOTE]

WEll, Jaeger, there’s no changing your mind, Im clear on that. You are very intent on burning the man on the cross, and I can accept that…

But please do know this, there have been MANY other donations Paul has made, and done, that he DID not publish, or promote, and therefore , they are unknown to you, or the mass public…but for those who have shown up for a lesson, to be told he was out of town on another charitable mission, I know firsthand there have been many attempts…there are a number of charitable clinics held at AWF for those that are less fortunate than us…in addition to countless trips to New Orleans after the hurricane…

As you are not in his loop, by choice, how would you know what he is, or is not doing to repair some damage?

The fact is, he IS doing them…why cant you just see that a a good thing?

[ccoronios]

“Not to drag up other horrific animal abuse individuals–but how different is this from Vick? Both, in a sense, are/were role models to young people, and they are obligated to conduct themselves accordingly. Shame on them for taking their wealth and connections to advance themselves monetarily. PV should stay banned as well as Vick should be banned from the NFL. This is obnoxious, intolerable behavior in today’s society. I can not believe the supporters out there for both of these men.”

And kudos to NFL for telling the world that Vick’s behavior is UNACCEPTABLE and will NOT be tolerated. Too bad USEF doesn’t have the small dangly parts.

[ccoronios]

bosox “mikes mcs–great post! It must be the LI upbringing! Massapequa is my hometown!”

agreed - Wantagh, here…

[fiona]

What should he do for a living now? Flip burgers?

Yes. Or clean toilets.

but for those who have shown up for a lesson, to be told he was out of town on another charitable mission,

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

This whole thread is a spoof right?

[Janet]

I think giving someone a chance to make amends is a much better option.
If he wants to “make amends”, a good place to start would be to stop violating (and encouraging other to violate) both the spirit and the letter of the USEF rules.

In particular GR702.h and i

h. Exhibiting any horse while in the care, training or custody of a suspended trainer.
i. Riding, exhibiting, coaching or training for the benefit, credit, reputation or satisfaction of a suspended person.

GR703.c

d. SUSPENSION for any period of any volunteer or any employed person who rides or exhibits for the benefit, credit, reputation or satisfaction of another suspended person.

GR704

GR704 Regulations as to Suspended Persons.

1. The purpose of this Rule shall be to prevent the avoidance by suspended exhibitors, trainers, coaches and other persons of the terms and conditions of their suspensions, or the penalties intended by the Hearing Committee as appurtenant to such suspensions. This Rule shall apply to the spouse of a suspended person as well as to any other persons or entities, including, without limitation, companions, family members, employers, employees, agents, partnerships, partners, corporations or other entities, whose relationship, whether financial or otherwise, with a suspended person would give the appearance that such other persons are riding, exhibiting, coaching or training for the benefit, credit, reputation or satisfaction of the suspended person.
2. No suspended person’s spouse or companion shall assume any of the suspended person’s responsibilities whatsoever at Federation competitions during the term of said suspension. Companion shall be defined as any person who co-habits with, or otherwise shares living accommodations with, a suspended person.
3. No suspended person’s spouse or companion may fill out any entry blanks for any of the suspended person’s customers for Federation competitions during the term of the suspended person’s suspension, or pay or advance entry fees on behalf of customers for Federation competitions during said period.
4. Any person who assumes the responsibility for the care, custody or control of an unsuspended horse completely or in part owned, leased, trained by or coached by a suspended person, must not:
   a. Be paid a salary directly or indirectly by or on behalf of the suspended person; or
   b. Receive a bonus or any other form of compensation in cash, property or other remuneration or consideration such as to make up for any such lost salary; or
   c. Make any payments of any kind, or give any remuneration or other compensation or consideration, to the suspended person, his/her spouse or companion, any corporation, partnership or other entity owned or controlled by said suspended person or to any other person for transfer to any of said individuals or entities for the right to ride, exhibit, coach or train for the suspended person or any of the suspended person’s customers during Federation Licensed Competitions; or
   d. Use the farm or individual name of the suspended person.
5. An individual who takes over the horses of a suspended trainer or coach must:
   a. Bill customers directly on his/her own bill forms for any services rendered at or in connection with any Federation Licensed Competitions;
   b. Maintain a personal checking account totally separate from and independent of that of the suspended person for purposes of paying all expenses of and depositing all income from customers;
   c. Pay all his/her employees working at Federation competitions, none of whom may be employees, directly or indirectly, of the suspended person;
   d. Keep checks, books, employee records and make withholding of taxes and other regular deductions from his/her employees’ paychecks;
   e. Pay all feed bills, motel, van bills, travel expenses, etc. from his/her separate and independent checking account and preserve, for six months after the date that said suspension is terminated, invoices for said bills;
   f. If such individual makes use of any equipment of a suspended trainer, the use of said equipment must be enumerated in detail in a written lease, the form and substance of which must be satisfactory to counsel for the Federation and shall be at the fair rental value for said equipment and said price must be included in said agreement;
   g. File such federal and state tax returns as will reflect as his or her income the income from said training or coaching responsibilities at Federation Licensed Competitions;
   h. Not borrow funds from a suspended trainer or coach, his/her spouse or companion, their families, corporations, partnerships or any other entities owned or controlled by said suspended trainer or to any other person for the purpose of going into business for himself or herself at Federation Licensed Competitions during the period of said suspension, nor will he/she allow any of the above-named parties or entities to sign or guarantee any notes or any type of loans to enable him or her to go into business as described above.
6. Suspended trainers and coaches, and individuals taking over the horses or customers of a suspended trainer or coach may be requested to make their books, canceled checks, invoices, tax returns and other evidence available to Federation representatives to verify and affirm the details of any relationship between them and suspended trainer or coach.
7. This Rule is intended to provide guidance for suspended persons and anyone contemplating taking over the responsibility for the riding, exhibiting, coaching, or training, of an unsuspended horse from a suspended person. It is not intended to anticipate every potential circumstance in which the intent of a suspension may be frustrated, and the Hearing Committee shall have the power to determine whether the facts and circumstances peculiar to any particular case compel a finding that there was or is a violation of the rules prohibiting exhibiting any horse while in the care, training or custody of a suspended trainer, or riding, exhibiting, coaching or training for the benefit, credit, reputation or satisfaction of a suspended person (see GR702h and i).

[dutchmike]

Why comparing with Vick?. I mean vick should never be able to get a dog again and is going to do time behind bars. Vick was probably from a ghetto dump and always hung around with the scum of the earth and although I dislike people like that they have grown up in a different environment.
Now anybody that grew up with horses in Europe or the US comes from atleast medium to high income famillies and started riding because they liked it. Some pro’s do the wrong things but to actually drive a trailer down a cliff or elecrocute a horse I cannot imagine how a person that has any heart or feelings for horses can do that and sleep at night.

I still think people like that should be banned for the rest of their lives to get even near a horse by the USEF, FEI and the criminal justice system.
Do I hate PV?. I don’t even know the man but I hate what he stands for think that he and many people like him get off to easilly and some people start the forgiveness crap. Where was his feeling for foregiveness when he KILLED his horse(s). He did it and just got a little slap on his arm and keeps smiling and probably abusing his horses ,just making sure his doors are closed before he does it

[Janet]

@slainte!;2662499

But if his banner is set up a horse show, a bunch of people swing by the aisle and ask “when’s he getting reinstated? how is he? it’s about time he comes back to the show”.

… The scrims and coolers are layed over the horses that say “AWF” on them… Why don’t more people announce their unhappiness at the sight of it?
… .

This would appear to be a direct violation of GR704.4d

d. Use the farm or individual name of the suspended person.

[dutchmike]

[QUOTE=Janet;2663843]
If he wants to “make amends”, a good place to start would be to stop violating (and encouraging other to violate) both the spirit and the letter of the USEF rules.

In particular GR702.h and i

GR703.c

GR704[/QUOTE]

So how come his students can compete?.

[Janet]

@dutchmike;2663866

So how come his students can compete?.

GOOD question.

[Acertainsmile]

All I can say is WOW… I have looked at these rules before… wonder what the PV crowd will say now, after they are done wiggling in their chairs…

[dutchmike]

Time to petition for enforcement of the rules?

[Janet]

@dutchmike;2663890

Time to petition for enforcement of the rules?

Well, if you are a USEF member on the show grounds, you can file a protest. It will cost you $100 though.

[Jaegermonster]

[QUOTE=anthem35;2662740]
I “jumped to his defense very early”? I’m not sure what you maena by that…is that intended to be sarcastic? Its Labor Day weekend, and I’d much rather enjoy it at the beach than sitting on my laptop.
.[/QUOTE]

It wasn’t meant to be anything, you took it however you took it. Glad you got to spend the holiday weekend having fun, I would have liked to have done that too, some of us had to work the whole weekend.

[pillsbury]

I would think if any of you feel as strongly as you say you do, and you know for a fact that his students are showing at USEF shows that you would lodge a protest. Otherwise, just talking about it does nothing. With that said, why so much yakking going on about PV, and not BW?

[dutchmike]

[QUOTE=Janet;2663896]
Well, if you are a USEF member on the show grounds, you can file a protest. It will cost you $100 though.[/QUOTE]

I will pay for that. It will be$100 well spend

[dutchmike]

[QUOTE=pillsbury;2663903]
I would think if any of you feel as strongly as you say you do, and you know for a fact that his students are showing at USEF shows that you would lodge a protest. Otherwise, just talking about it does nothing. With that said, why so much yakking going on about PV, and not BW?[/QUOTE]

It is about PV, BW and all people like them

[Jaegermonster]

[QUOTE=anthem35;2662968]
But at this point, I just see a man who F@#$^ed up…BIG…and who actually IS SORRY…and HAS been paying the price for his crime, and will be until the end of time, who has asked for the chance to make amends.

.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I agree with the second part, he did eff up big time. As far as the second, is he sorry he killed the horse or sorry he got caught? I bet it’s the latter. As I recall, he wasn’t so guilt ridden that he voluntarily marched to the nearest law enforcement agency and confessed his sins. He waited til he was found out then squealed like a pig on everybody he could to save his own sorry hide. No honor among thieves I suppose.

[Ghazzu]

@ReSomething;2663036

Oh for God’s sake. How foolish and short-sighted can you be to think killing it for the insurance money is going to be better for your professional reputation? Pride maybe, but . . just BUT.

I believe the person being referred to there was an amateur…

[Jaegermonster]

[QUOTE=anthem35;2663682]
WEll, Jaeger, there’s no changing your mind, Im clear on that. You are very intent on burning the man on the cross, and I can accept that…

But please do know this, there have been MANY other donations Paul has made, and done, that he DID not publish, or promote, and therefore , they are unknown to you, or the mass public…but for those who have shown up for a lesson, to be told he was out of town on another charitable mission, I know firsthand there have been many attempts…there are a number of charitable clinics held at AWF for those that are less fortunate than us…in addition to countless trips to New Orleans after the hurricane…

As you are not in his loop, by choice, how would you know what he is, or is not doing to repair some damage?

The fact is, he IS doing them…why cant you just see that a a good thing?[/QUOTE]

Actually I do know some of what he is doing by indirect association through a third party. I am not friends with this person but she knows some other people I know. It’s great that he is doing it. He should have done it before he was a convicted felon.

I don’t want to burn the man at the stake, nor do I want him to get hit by a bus. What i do want, however, is for him to respect the agency that governs our sport (oh wait to get respect you have to earn it so never mind USEF is woeful inadequate in that dept on this issue). I want him to go away and accept that he is not wanted by the majority and go find another means of earning a living. I want him to be honest about what he has done.

I would like the USEF to show the same backbone as the NFL and send a clear message, but I won’t hold my breath on that one.

[Jaegermonster]

[QUOTE=pillsbury;2663903]
I would think if any of you feel as strongly as you say you do, and you know for a fact that his students are showing at USEF shows that you would lodge a protest. Otherwise, just talking about it does nothing. With that said, why so much yakking going on about PV, and not BW?[/QUOTE]

His students are allowed to show he just can’t be on the grounds. Even though he is doing it by cell phone, guess who has the burden of proof? Not PV.