I’ve never understood the USEF’s position on the whole thing…it seems to be a real “Better not do this or we’ll definitely turn a blind eye and continue to allow you to make money on our showgrounds!” :no:
Not exactly a serious deterrent for others…which is one of the main reasons for punishment: To punish the person who did the crime AND to make an example of them so others do not even think of doing something similar.
Sure…others most likely have done the same and not been caught. But why, after the gang back then were caught? Because in the long run…it will NOT affect their incomes and with some members it won’t even affect their opinions of you. :sigh: So why worry too much?
USEF condones it as much as some people do…I find that the most pathetic thing in this whole issue. 
[QUOTE=Jaegermonster;2664604]
But overall this has been a good thread and a good opportunity to educate those who were unaware of the evil among us.[/QUOTE]
This is a very accurate statement.
There are those of us that are new to the sport and don’t know the story.
I read every post.
For the record, next time I’m at HITS I’d be happy to file a complaint just so no one can say it hasn’t been done. It isn’t my primary discipline but we go to play in the jumpers once in a while. If someone would explain to me exactly what complaint to make and who/what needed to be there and/or happening I would gladly sacrifice my $100.
You really need to read the whole of subchapter 6 of the General Rules. But here are some key excerpts.
GR602 Contents, etc.
- A protest, charge or grievance must state the full name and address (if known) of the accused, must list each Rule number alleged to have been violated and must contain a complete statement of the acts which constitute the alleged violation. The maker of the protest, charge or grievance must be prepared to substantiate the protest, charge or grievance by his or her own personal testimony at a hearing or by the testimony of at least one other witness with personal knowledge who is subject to cross-examination, and by additional evidence including but not limited to sworn statements, other witnesses.
and
GR603 Protests.
- Any rider, driver, handler, vaulter, longeur, exhibitor, owner, agent, trainer or the parent of a junior exhibitor, or any Life, Senior, or Junior member present at the competition may file a protest with the Show Committee of a Licensed Competition or The Federation Hearing Committee alleging violation of any Federation rule(s). The protest must contain all information as specified in GR602.1 and must be:
a. in writing,
b. signed by the protestor,
c. addressed to the Show Committee of the competition at which the alleged violation occurred, or to the Hearing Committee,
d. accompanied by a deposit of $200 if made by a Federation member or the parent of a junior exhibitor member or $300 if made by a non-member (if check, payable to the competition or to the Federation); said deposit will be refunded in the event the protest is upheld, and
e. received by the steward, technical delegate, a member of the Show Committee, the competition manager or the competition secretary within 48 hours of the alleged violation. If made directly to the Hearing Committee, the protest must be received at the Federation office by the tenth business day following the last recognized day of the competition, or by the tenth business day following the date on which the alleged violation occurred if it occurred other than at a Licensed Competition.
OOPS- it went up to $200.
Is anyone able to relay the information about horses being driven over a cliff in a van? Or was that just a rumor?
Seems like PV didn’t get very much punishment for his despicable actions. And Barney Ward, the POS, must have passed on his devotion to horses to Maclain. (That is said sarcastically) Unitl recently, I don’t think I ever saw Maclain give a horse a pat after a round. I guess somone told him to start doing this, as I really don’t think he would have thought of it on his own.
As Attorney Joseph Welch said to Senator Joseph McCarthy…“Have you no sense of decency, sir???”.
slander Paul V. – what a concept
You know what would be nice…
Since he is very well endowed in the POCKETBOOK, why doesn’t he do a really good deed and pay for Gerry Briggs’ medical expenses.
And Barney Ward, the POS, must have passed on his devotion to horses to Maclain. (That is said sarcastically) Unitl recently, I don’t think I ever saw Maclain give a horse a pat after a round. I guess somone told him to start doing this, as I really don’t think he would have thought of it on his own.
thrown in like a small rock in a stoneing…the mob is OFC.
Um, read the code, BlueShadow… And hopefully others will too and not blindly believe you because it’s what they want to hear. (And BTW, it’s the CA Penal Code you want to point them to).
I can put my horse down in any manner as long as it’s not consider torture, torment or cruelty. I’m not sure electrocution is considered torture. We may think it is, but I didn’t find it listed in the code coupled with the fact that it is still used on humans leads me to believe that answer is no. Section 597u details some of the ways you CANNOT kill an animal, electrocution is not one of them. Section 599b defines torment, cruelty and torture but it is still left open whether using electrocution as a means to kill an animal is ‘torture’.
I can put my horse down if it behooves me.
And really, that’s beside the point. The issue I was addressing is that PV didn’t get in trouble for having his horse killed. He could’ve killed the horse or had it done by any number of means and never broken a law. He broke the law by submitting a fraudulent insurance claim through the US Postal Service.
Here’s something I’m curious about: for those of you who board/ride at Acres Wild, are your horses insured? How does this work with the insurance companies? I am totally serious about this, not poking fun.
Oh, and what’s with the “23 years” thing? I’m not the best at math, but by my calculations, it was a lot more recent than that. The indictments were in 1994 (13 years ago), and IIRC, the crimes were within a year or two prior. Correct me if I’m wrong?
FWIW, as I have mentioned on other PV threads, I rode with him years ago before this happened. Learned a lot from him. I could tell a bunch of “nice Paul” stories - he did help a lot of young riders who did not have the financial means to compete at the top level - but that would do nothing to change the opinions of people who are horrified by what he did (and rightly so). The overwhelming feeling I get whenever PV is discussed is sadness and disappointment. I have forgiven, but won’t forget.
Each state has it’s own statues but I haven’t looked to see if there is a Federal law/statute. I recall that the charges in the situation being discussed were brought at a Federal level ( although it’s been awhile and that may be wrong). I’ve pasted in parts of the CA penal code. There are lots of sub sections and I guess it depends which area you are reading to form your opinion. But you are right, it doesn’t make any difference which law he was prosecuted under. What does matter is the lack or morals or ethics. I don’t think any reading of the CA penal code can be used to excuse what happened or rationalize it as a ‘non crime’ but that’s not what you were trying to do ( at least I hope not ).
“(a) Except as provided in subdivision © of this section or
Section 599c, every person who maliciously and intentionally maims,
mutilates, tortures, or wounds a living animal, or maliciously and
intentionally kills an animal, is guilty of an offense punishable by
imprisonment in the state prison, or by a fine of not more than
twenty thousand dollars ($20,000), or by both the fine and
imprisonment, or, alternatively, by imprisonment in a county jail for
not more than one year, or by a fine of not more than twenty
thousand dollars ($20,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment.”
“No person, peace officer, officer of a humane society, or
officer of a pound or animal regulation department of a public
agency shall kill any animal by using any of the following methods:”
PineTreeFarm: I’m not trying to excuse the man of any actions. What I am trying to do is remind people of the facts. PV was convicted of mail fraud…not animal cruelty. The AHSA used animal cruelty for their suspension, but the actual crime he is convicted of is mail fraud.
And you just can’t pull pieces of the code out like you did as they subsections relate to the section they come from. (But if you notice…the last section you snipped actually goes into the different ways you cannot kill an animal…and electrocution is not listed. It lists carbon monoxide poisoning, injection of a substance to cause cardiac arrest without sedating first, etc. No listing of electrocution.
I’m just more of a facts kind a person. I hate all the assumptions and suppositions and misinformation. Discuss a topic to death, no problem, but do it with correct information.
[QUOTE=RugBug;2665212]
Um, read the code, BlueShadow… And hopefully others will too and not blindly believe you because it’s what they want to hear. (And BTW, it’s the CA Penal Code you want to point them to).
I can put my horse down in any manner as long as it’s not consider torture, torment or cruelty. I’m not sure electrocution is considered torture. We may think it is, but I didn’t find it listed in the code coupled with the fact that it is still used on humans leads me to believe that answer is no. Section 597u details some of the ways you CANNOT kill an animal, electrocution is not one of them. Section 599b defines torment, cruelty and torture but it is still left open whether using electrocution as a means to kill an animal is ‘torture’.
I can put my horse down if it behooves me.
And really, that’s beside the point. The issue I was addressing is that PV didn’t get in trouble for having his horse killed. He could’ve killed the horse or had it done by any number of means and never broken a law. He broke the law by submitting a fraudulent insurance claim through the US Postal Service.[/QUOTE]
Well, here it is - and yes I am familiar with it - and yes, the animal cruelty provisions are embedded within the penal code. My point is not about “humane euthanasia”, which is also very explicitly defined by the penal code, but that you may not “destroy” your animal in any manner in which you see fit. In the current case, “maliciously and intentionally kills” would likely fit the bill. PV was not prosecuted for animal cruelty, but in the state of CA he might have had more of a battle on his hands. The same penal code renders it very difficult for animal shelters to even euthanize unwanted animals…and selling your horse for slaughter is a felony.
- (a) Except as provided in subdivision © of this section or
Section 599c, every person who maliciously and intentionally maims,
mutilates, tortures, or wounds a living animal, or maliciously and
intentionally kills an animal, is guilty of an offense punishable by
imprisonment in the state prison, or by a fine of not more than
twenty thousand dollars ($20,000), or by both the fine and
imprisonment, or, alternatively, by imprisonment in a county jail for
not more than one year, or by a fine of not more than twenty
thousand dollars ($20,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment.
Now here are some specific provisions on how you CANNOT euthanize your animal in CA. Do you think that electrocution would pass the test?
597u. (a) No person, peace officer, officer of a humane society, or
officer of a pound or animal regulation department of a public
agency shall kill any animal by using any of the following methods:
(1) Carbon monoxide gas.
(2) Intracardiac injection of a euthanasia agent on a conscious
animal, unless the animal is heavily sedated or anesthetized in a
humane manner, or comatose, or unless, in light of all the relevant
circumstances, the procedure is justifiable.
(b) With respect to the killing of any dog or cat, no person,
peace officer, officer of a humane society, or officer of a pound or
animal regulation department of a public agency shall use any of the
methods specified in subdivision (a) or any of the following methods:
(1) High-altitude decompression chamber.
(2) Nitrogen gas
So am I , that’s why I responded to your post. 
See below for AHSA’s statement mentioning electrocution. Apparently they thought it was at least ‘painful’ although they didn’t go as far as calling it torture.
"In considering an appropriate penalty for the violation by MR. VALLIERE, the committee members weighed in his favor that he had cooperated
with the government; however, the panel also took into consideration that he hired a killer for the horse Roseau Platiere, owned by him,
which was electrocuted as part of a scheme to defraud an insurance company, and that the evidence presented at the hearing established that death by electrocution causes pain to the horse. "
AHSA also listed the rules that applied in their decision. This section seems to make it clearer that it was judged to be an act of cruelty or abuse.I don’t believe there is anything in the rules (then or currently) to ban someone based on criminal background.
""Mr. Paul Valliere, of North Smithfield, RI, violated Rule III, Article 302.6 and Rule VII, Article 702(a), (d), and (f) of this
association, in that he was convicted of having participated in a plan or conspiracy to commit acts of cruelty or abuse to a horse and the
conduct underlying his conviction is deemed improper, unethical, dishonest, unsportsmanlike or intemperate, or prejudicial to the best
interests of the Association. "
It may or may not fit the bill.
And still the facts in this matter are that the crime WAS NOT animal cruelty (as that was never decided in a court of law), but rather an attempt was made to commit insurance fraud using the USPS.
The rest is supposition.
PineTreeFarm: The AHSA is not a court…their decision means very little in the face of actual criminal punishment.
Again, I’m not saying anything the man did is excusable…but it would also be nice if people could stop making assumptions. It’s nice to make him seem as evil as possible, it boost all arguements…but it is intellectually dishonest. Stick to facts and let the case speak for itself. It’s not like the facts aren’t going to condemn the man.
Rugbug, what I just did was to post facts! And yes, I’m very concerned that anything I publicly post is intellectually honest - although I don’t impose that upon others. They can post as they choose.
Torture is inessential for animal cruelty to occur in CA - that’s why “malicious and intentional killing” is listed separately.
I could easily have interpreted your post as suggesting that what PV did was simply to destroy his own property in any manner in which he chose - and that that’s okay. I hope that’s not what you intended. It’s not okay under CA law. It MAY be okay in his state, or at least the state animal laws there may not have prohibited electrocution as “humane”.
There are many ways to destroy an animal. The CA penal code explicitly outlaws some, but is also sufficiently broad to prohibit many others.
Remember people. the AHSA was its own entity and is NOT the new USEF. The USEF is similarly NOT the “old AHSA.”
I want to say that the impetus for some of the more recent animal cruelty laws (especially becoming a felony) is due in part to the horse insurance fraud cases. Insurance fraud was the best they could do since there were no felony laws for animal abuse. Now there are:)
Yes, BlueShadow, you posted facts. But not facts pertinent to PV’s case. There are plenty of facts out there that could be posted, but not all are pertinent.
If you were solely addressing my comment that a horse could be put down in any manner of ways, even in CA you may or may not be prevented from using electrocution. It would have to be deemed torture, cruelty or torment and/or you would have to prove it was done maliciously.
But again, not much of that is pertinent to the PV issue as it did not occur in CA.
