[QUOTE=farmer2;2702751]
What else can he do other than what he knows best? [/QUOTE]
Hustling? :lol:
[QUOTE=LexInVA;2702887]
Hustling? :lol:[/QUOTE]
Perfect…
and I must add again alot of you PV supporters have NO idea what went on “behind the barns”
[QUOTE=FrenchFrytheEqHorse;2702819]
What do you say to a 14 year old (supposedly less-privaledged compared to his/her competitors) when they win this national competition, then end up in his barn, showing his horses? That, my friend, is NOT OUR KIDS’ FAULTS. THAT is our INDUSTRY.[/QUOTE]
I don’t disagree with you, but here’s what you say to said 14-year-olds: that by training with ANY of the suspended parties, they themselves risk suspension, and they better read the rule book pretty darn carefully.
[QUOTE=farmer2;2702751]
What has gone unsaid regarding the death of Roseau Platiere, for his own reasons, Paul will not divulge. Not even to lessen the legal charges against him. [/QUOTE]
Are you saying Paul actually had some higher moral reason for offing a loser and if we only knew the truth, we would all welcome him back with open arms?
WHACK!!! Beats- Dead- Horse!!!
response to midge
No. midge, there is no reason to open your arms in forgiveness or even be a little less offended by what has happened. If you love horses as I do. I how could you. I am saying one act does not define a person and things are not always as clear as we would like. To the offended one referring to slapping the dead horse. Maybe you shouldn’t read this thread anymore. I feel strongly about what I know and reading untruths is offensive to me, even after all this time. This is my last response. Enjoy your horses everyone! They are truly a gift in our lives!
[QUOTE=War Admiral;2703069]
I don’t disagree with you, but here’s what you say to said 14-year-olds: that by training with ANY of the suspended parties, they themselves risk suspension, and they better read the rule book pretty darn carefully.[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure you fully understood that part of my post, and I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear in the first place.
The Ronnie Mutch scholarship winner from 2 (maybe 3?) years ago was given the oppurtunity to ride and train in Wellington during WEF. Among other trainers with whom she lessoned, she rode with Paul Valliere quite extensively during her several week stay. At the end of her stay, she showed an equitation horse owned by PV (as stated by her in her webshots, and on other BBs) in the Maclay, USEF, etc.
The RM Scholarship is an amazing oppurtunity for young riders to gain valuable experience that might otherwise not be able to get their foot in the door with some of the bigger names of our sport. To dangle that kind of oppurtunity in a child’s face (as I believe she was 14 at the time), then tell her she risks suspension (which she really doesn’t, to be honest, considering the number of people currently training under PV) if she jumps on that oppurtunity is plain CRUEL. 14 year olds are NOT CAPABLE of making that kind of decision, and furthermore, the parents of the 14 year old are the ones responsible for making the judgement calls.
Therefore, it is our INDUSTRY, above all, that supports these people before anything. As long as the USEF continues to maintain such a nonchilant attitude regarding the participation (either directly or indirectly) of said individuals in our sport, they will continue to profit. This arguement has NOTHING to do with the decisions made by children showing- it is not the child’s pocketbook supporting training/showing/boarding bills. It is the support and approval of the child’s PARENTS who are responsible.
I apologize that I get so inflamed over this issue. But as a young person who feels she has achieved a relatively respectable level of moral conduct due largely in part to the efforts put forth by her parents as she grew up, I have to put in my two cents when I hear the kind of nonsense blaming KIDS for PV’s ongoing participation in the equine world. Children are impressionable beings- if a child has is under the impression that what PV and the other convicted individuals did was acceptable, there is something wrong with the guidance provided to that child in its formidable years. And THAT is the responsibility of the adult community around that kid.
One act, one moment in time, one decision most certainly can define a person. It happens all the time, for good and for evil.
[QUOTE=FrenchFrytheEqHorse;2703448]
At the end of her stay, she showed an equitation horse owned by PV (as stated by her in her webshots, and on other BBs) in the Maclay, USEF, etc. [/QUOTE]
The horse was NOT owned by PV. This has previously been discussed. The horse was owned by someone keeping it at the farm where Paul trains. The horse was most likely a sales horse - seeing that’s what he primarily was doing at the time. That was a misprint and the child’s mistake.
However, I agree with your post - blame the USEF.
So was Ted Bundy, I hear.
Ah, but was the horse “in the care, training or custody of a suspended trainer.”?
If our creator is good enough to offer grace and forgive then we can forgive a fellow brother who has confessed to the horrible mistake and deserves to put it behind him. I think 10 years is more than enough.
World, difference is we ask for forgiveness when we confess… PV was forced to confess, either that or go to jail… huge difference IMO.
[QUOTE=shade;2702675]
[.
What you see on the outside is not the man that exists behind closed doors.[/QUOTE]
BINGO…[/QUOTE]
Uh-yup!!! Been there…seen that!
[QUOTE=FrenchFrytheEqHorse;2702819]
Oh please. Not really directed just to you, but please get a grip. Please remember that Paul Valliere and the others involved in the killing of horses at that time are products of MOST OF YOUR generation, not “kids’ these days”. The problem is NOT that people continue to ride with him, it’s that our governing body/law enforcement organizations FAILED US in allowing him to have ANYTHING to do with horses at this point in time. Is he out there killing horses still? Probably not, but I can only say that with a fair amount of sureness because I bet he can’t insure horses at this point to save his life.
We live in a world FULL of sour grapes, and bad apples. But all you baby-boomers out there should remember one thing when you make comments pertaining to the education of our youth and their “poor ethics”- YOU ARE THE ONES EDUCATING US. PAUL VALLIERE WAS TEACHING US, AND OUR TEACHERS. BARNEY WARD HAD OUR TRAINERS IN HIS BARN! You want to talk about twisted ethics, I’ll say your generation took the cake!
Last time I checked, KIDS are not responsible for running the USEF. CHILDREN are not the ones making the decisions concerning with whom they ride. Their 45-60 year old PARENTS are calling those shots, and we all know what it’s like when someone has a horrible stage mother.
And what do you do when organizations like the RM scholarship take the winner and send them over to PV’s barn for equitation lessons? And then show PV’s horse in the Maclay? What do you say to a 14 year old (supposedly less-privaledged compared to his/her competitors) when they win this national competition, then end up in his barn, showing his horses? That, my friend, is NOT OUR KIDS’ FAULTS. THAT is our INDUSTRY.[/QUOTE]
Yeah. Every generation blames the one before it. What you should be doing is standing up for yourself and doing what is right and forget blaming others for any inadequacies you may have had in your education. Good character is innate, not taught.
FrenchFry, we’re totally in agreement that USEF needs to grow a spine. :yes: But I completely disagree that 14 is too young to make appropriate and well-reasoned value judgments. As I posted on the other thread, I saw one of these trainers doing stuff to horses that I didn’t approve of when I was 12. We showed on the same circuit but I’ve never met him b/c I decided right then and there that this was a person I was nevereverEVER going to have anything to do with, under ANY circs whatsoever. Spent the rest of my life blanking him whenever we passed.
Any kid who is tough enough to work their way up the Big Eq. scene is also intelligent enough to know the score. Half the problem is that competitors of all ages don’t bother reading the rule book any more; the other half is that they then proceed to ignore it, and USEF proceeds to let them.
Telling a rider of ANY age who trains with a suspended trainer that the rider risks suspension by so doing is NOT cruelty. It is a FACT. It’s there in the rule book for all to see. So unless the kid is a functional illiterate (always possible, but I find it kind of unlikely), the kid should be aware.
It’s the KID’s responsibility as the competitor to KNOW the rules and COMPLY with the rules.
Whoa there…
The USEF cannot do anything about things that happen that are NOT during a show. The Mutch scholarship was primarily held on OFF days down at WEF. This did come up before, nothing USEF can do about it. They do not own the property and no show was in session.
It is an admitted loophole but PV is within his rights legally.
[It is an admitted loophole but PV is within his rights legally.[/QUOTE]
There ya go…ah ha…sure making amends and “doing his time” finding and slipping through the loopholes…
As he has been all along. Not too contrite.
[QUOTE=farmer2;2702751]
What has gone unsaid regarding the death of Roseau Platiere, for his own reasons, Paul will not divulge. Not even to lessen the legal charges against him.[/QUOTE]
You know, every time this topic comes up, PV’s supporters throw out a line like this. If we only knew the truth behind what happened, we would all understand. But this truth behind what happened is never actually revealed. So what is it? Did PV kill RP so that humankind as we know it could be saved? Did someone threaten to blow up a major city or release some leathal virus on mankind and the only way to stop them was to off RP for the insurance money? Was RP an equine antichrist?
Ah…if we only knew. And PV is so alturistic to hold this information inside, even though it could enlighten all of us and lead to lesser charges for him. Yay PV!
