Paul valliere

[Mayaty02]

[QUOTE=BLBGP;2704766]
You know, every time this topic comes up, PV’s supporters throw out a line like this. If we only knew the truth behind what happened, we would all understand. But this truth behind what happened is never actually revealed. So what is it? Did PV kill RP so that humankind as we know it could be saved? Did someone threaten to blow up a major city or release some leathal virus on mankind and the only way to stop them was to off RP for the insurance money? Was RP an equine antichrist?

Ah…if we only knew. And PV is so alturistic to hold this information inside, even though it could enlighten all of us and lead to lesser charges for him. Yay PV![/QUOTE]
LOL LOL LOL :D:D

[Silk]

[QUOTE=BLBGP;2704766]
You know, every time this topic comes up, PV’s supporters throw out a line like this. If we only knew the truth behind what happened, we would all understand. But this truth behind what happened is never actually revealed. So what is it? Did PV kill RP so that humankind as we know it could be saved? Did someone threaten to blow up a major city or release some leathal virus on mankind and the only way to stop them was to off RP for the insurance money? Was RP an equine antichrist?

Ah…if we only knew. And PV is so alturistic to hold this information inside, even though it could enlighten all of us and lead to lesser charges for him. Yay PV![/QUOTE]

My school needs to charge you for a new keyboard;) School lunch looks pretty bad on a computer screen!!!

[Dispatcher]

BLBGP–Now THAT’s funny!!

How I wish we all could know the REAL truth!

[Coreene]

This thread has done wonders for increasing my “ignore” list.

[xegeba]

it would have been so much easier…

if that nasty PV had just taken the horse to Cavel and killed the thing via captive bolt and collected the going rate.

[slainte]

I think it’s hard for people like Flash1 and I to sit back and read these comments about what happens “BEHIND THE BARNS!” when we were the ones that WORKED there alongside the man… We’re just confused about exactly what you’re talking about. You can discuss his case loud and clear - and you can choose which side you take - but you can’t just make stuff up!

[system]

SILK - How do you really feel about PV

I would like to know how you really feel about PV Silk. You have both trashed him and supported him. Why is that? Is it because who you want to impress with your obnoxous opinions changes with the season - or with the barn/trainer - everyone in MA knows you have been to over a dozen different barns in the past 8 years or so?

I understand you have been trashing a certain former trainer of yours for (supposedly) buying horses from PV. I have also seen some recent posts (Sept 2007) that are clearly against PV:

Silk: “If you are referring to buying a horse from PV, NO…I would not!! I will not support him in any way”

Silk: “Womanizing homophobe is how I remember him…very free with his whip and spur…Not the best rider I ever saw (to put it mildly)”

But then in Dec 2005 you felt differently:

Silk: “Its going to be a powerful combination having Paul and David together. I don’t deny that either are anything but the best.”

Silk: “I have had contact with him; he was quite charming and lovely. He cared about my horse.”

And in Feb 2004 you even made posts suggesting that poor Paul was forced to kill RP:

Other poster: It’s not like someone held a gun to his head
Silk: “Or was it?”
Other poster:Why didn’t he just walk away or stay uninvolved?
Silk: “Not always as easy as it sounds”

And the most disgusting posts you made (again in Feb 2004):

Silk: “What difference does it make what she was bred for? The ultimate result is the same. Dead is dead. We all take part in killing. We all are responsible for the death of of other living things”

Does that make what PV did OK?

Silk: “I am just saying that PV’s case was a one time occurence, completely out of the ordinary for this particular individual.”

Silk: “Except for that one incident, he has played by the rules.”

Hello :eek:

[grey_mare]

[QUOTE=farmer2;2702751]
… He admits he made a horrible mistake. The mistake however is not as it appears to be…
…What has gone unsaid regarding the death of Roseau Platiere, for his own reasons, Paul will not divulge. Not even to lessen the legal charges against him…[/QUOTE]

You mean an explanation that makes this crime somehow less heinous ? But its not good enough to share?
hmmmm…

[RNB]

@findeight;2704334

Whoa there…

The USEF cannot do anything about things that happen that are NOT during a show…

Not true findeight (not arguing just want to let people know :)).

And I have a case to prove it. I was a victim of horse fraud…my two felons were charges with 76 counts each. These were “Federal” charges. There was a 5 year FBI investigation in 7 states…there was a plea bargain to which they plead guilty to one charge. All of the 76 counts brought against them were horse related but were not directly related to horse shows.

Last Sept 2006 the USEF paid all my expenses to come to Lexington to be a witness on their behalf at a hearing for these two individuals. They were banned from ALL USEF events and can not set foot on show grounds for a minimum of 5 years.

It all depends on the charges and the case. Perhaps this was taken more seriously because it was the first federal case of it’s kind…I can’t say for sure. But I do know the USEF stepped up to the plate and followed through, much to the delight of many horse folks!

[Janet]

I think the point is that USEF can IMPOSE a penalty based on things that happen off the show grounds.

But the PENALTY ITSELF can only restrict the person being punished from USEF activities.

The USEF can not impose a penalty that applies to working with horses away from any USEF activities.

@RNB;2711360

Not true findeight (not arguing just want to let people know :)).

And I have a case to prove it. I was a victim of horse fraud…my two felons were charges with 76 counts each. These were “Federal” charges. There was a 5 year FBI investigation in 7 states…there was a plea bargain to which they plead guilty to one charge. All of the 76 counts brought against them were horse related but were not directly related to horse shows.

Last Sept 2006 the USEF paid all my expenses to come to Lexington to be a witness on their behalf at a hearing for these two individuals. They were banned from ALL USEF events and can not set foot on show grounds for a minimum of 5 years.

It all depends on the charges and the case. Perhaps this was taken more seriously because it was the first federal case of it’s kind…I can’t say for sure. But I do know the USEF stepped up to the plate and followed through, much to the delight of many horse folks!

[RNB]

@Janet;2711392

I think the point is that USEF can IMPOSE a penalty based on things that happen off the show grounds.

But the PENALTY ITSELF can only restrict the person being punished from USEF activities.

The USEF can not impose a penalty that applies to working with horses away from any USEF activities.

This is true as per the USEF in my case:

“…found not in good standing and that effective immediately and until further notice, be denied any right to apply for membership to the Federation and that he be banned from any Federation Licensed competitions as a spectator, participant, or in any other capacity pursuant to Chapter 7, GR703.1b, and any horse or horses, completely or in par owned, leased, or of any partnership, corporation or stable of his, or shown in his name or for his reputation, whether such interest was held at the time of the alleged violation or acquired thereafter also be banned pursuant to Chapter 7, GR703.1c. The Hearing Committee also directed that it retains jurisdiction, and no sooner than 5 years from November 8, 2006, may apply to the Federation to be removed from the ban based upon affirmative proof of total rehabilitation, including proof that he has truly accepted responsibility for his actions and has taken steps to reform himself and has preformed community service to benefit the welfare of horses.”

This was taken directly from Equestrian magazine, Feb 2007 issue.

But the good folks in the Dept of Justice, Judge Richard L. Williams, set down these probation guidelines for 3 years:

“The defendant is prohibited from any employment - self-employment or employment through a legitimate employer - in the equestrian/horse industry. This includes but is not limited to the buying and selling of horses, the breeding of horses, acting as an agent during the sale of horses, acting as a horse trainer, or acting as an instructor for riding lessons to any individual.”

I only wish Judge Williams could rule in every case relating to horses!! :yes:

[findeight]

If they got indicted on federal charges and didn’t plea out a judge could do that. But if there is a plea deal or if they are unindicted? No go and USEF has no authority outside USEF events.

[RNB]

You are correct…the USEF has no authority over things outside of the USEF. However, the point I was trying to make, obviously badly, is the USEF can ban individuals from USEF shows even when the reason for the ban did not occur on show grounds. Sorry if I was unclear but after 8 years in the middle of this, working hand-in-hand with the DOJ and USEF it can be done. The USEF may not like to get involved in these types of cases and perhaps they need a little nudging sometimes. Personally I think they should and have told them so on many occasion. I also believe there will be some changes made in the near future.

[Snowbird]

The horse/horses could have been sold.

I think the point being made is that PV was not doing this to feed his starving family. He had contacts to arrange for the horse to be sold for maybe less money due it being for a lower level competition. BUT…he could afford the loss and it was not critical and the horse didn’t need to be killed at all. Someone would have loved to own such a horse who was just a level lower on the competition ladder. It could have been sold for less than the Insurance Value. Whose ego required that this option was not consiodered?

[Silk]

beautifully said, Snowbird!

Hey…I choose to Shhhhhuuuunnnnnnnnnn but its a free Country.

[Silk]

[QUOTE=Coreene;2704976]
This thread has done wonders for increasing my “ignore” list.[/QUOTE]

LOL…just added another myself;)

[Janet]

According to the latest Equestrian, PV has been found guilty of violating GR702.1a, d, g;GR703.1b and GR704.1

“While suspended, he participated in Licensed Competitions as a trainer and/or coach by directing… members of this Federation … to train or coach … on his behalf…”

As a result he “shall remain not in good standing and…continue to be expelled and suspended for at least 3 years commencing June 18 2007, and indefinitely thereafter.”

and further

“The Hearing Committee … retains jurisdiction for at least three years, and no sooner than June 18, 2010, can Valliere apply for reinstatement…”

Ther is no mention of action against the members of the Federation who “trained on his behalf”. But maybe that is coming soon.

BTW, hearing apparently took place in APRIL 2007, well before this thread was started.

[BarbB]

@Janet;2750842

“While suspended, he participated in Licensed Competitions as a trainer and/or coach by directing… members of this Federation … to train or coach … on his behalf…”

As a result he “shall remain not in good standing and…continue to be expelled and suspended for at least 3 years commencing June 18 2007, and indefinitely thereafter.”

Looky there…sometimes the system DOES work! :yes:

[hiddenlake]

Wow. Good for the USEF. Has anyone seen him coaching from the sidelines since his new suspension took effect?

I can’t help but wonder how he will react, and what his clients will do as well. Though I’m sure we’ll hear from them shortly.

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

@Janet;2750842

Ther is no mention of action against the members of the Federation who “trained on his behalf”. But maybe that is coming soon.

We can hope! That will be a very important step to stop him from thumbing his nose at the system.

THANK-YOU USEF!!