PV is moving permanently to Ocala? Do you know what farm?
I certainly don’t. That said, the sport (via it’s governing body, the USEF) has spoken and many of the rank and file members agree; Paul Valliere and his farm should not be permitted to participate at sanctioned competitions. Many of the members of this board have been active in preventing his reinstatement.
I know others were involved and not caught or not punished as sternly. Some got away entirely. So what? If the guy who murders someone never gets caught does that mean that cops should stop investigating murders? The USEF knows what PV did and have punished him. Yes, it is too bad because he was (presumably is) a great trainer. It was his choice and he wasted what could have been a tremendous, long and successful career.
Do I think, with all the scutiny that he’d be likley to “off” a horse I might send to him (if I had one and would patronize him) today? No. It seems unlikely. That said, I simply wouldn’t care to use a trainer who once (even a long time ago) demonstrated such callous disregard for the life of horses entrusted to him.
[QUOTE=witherbee;3696768]
PV is moving permanently to Ocala? Do you know what farm?[/QUOTE]
Really? Is he selling the farm in Plainville, MA?
I’d hazard a guess that the majority of the people who still find the whole affair repugnant and horrific and want to see sanctions kept in place are, rather than “girls”, considerably older, or at least more mature, than you give evidence of being…
The one experience I had with Acres Wild Farm many many moons ago was enough to alert my parents to many red flags. That said, if a person chooses to take lessons from Paul Valliere, go in peace. If a person chooses to send a horse to him for training, go in peace.
But…for me personally, I wouldn’t let him near anything I owned that had 4 legs. He chose his own path and there are always consequences to one’s actions. It was his choices that landed him where he is today…always in the name of the almighty dollar.
Should any of us forget what happened? No. Should we all be reminded of his actions from time to time? Absolutely. We all know what happens when we become complacent around a horse…we should adhere to the same when it comes to the humans associated with the horse world.
Well said. Here-here.
[QUOTE=feather river;3695887]
you all know this happened 20+/- years ago? And it was endemic in the industy-not just Paul Vallier?. And even some of our big GP riders who skated by from the net that went out are guilty?
When are those of you who post this thread every fall going to get on with your lives? Quit being a pawn of the few who have an personal business agenda.[/QUOTE]
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
And glad to see they spanked another one for being associated with that scum. Hope they keep it up.
[QUOTE=Linny;3696772]
That said, I simply wouldn’t care to use a trainer who once (even a long time ago) demonstrated such callous disregard for the life of horses entrusted to him.[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
Do you think that any insurance underwriter would insure a horse in his care? It seems like you’d have a very hard time getting a policy if your horse was in training / in his barn. Maybe not though? Anyone know? I’m just curious.
UMMMM hell ya there would be a bit of an issue getting insurance if he was known to be in the facility.
[QUOTE=Linny;3696772]
That said, I simply wouldn’t care to use a trainer who once (even a long time ago) demonstrated such callous disregard for the life of horses entrusted to him.[/QUOTE]
But the owners were the ones calling the shots…it’s not like he just walked through the barn and picked out horses to have killed. The owners wanted to collect the money, it was a racket a scheme…I’m not defending him, by any means, but one thing that seems to falsely prevail over these threads is the idea the owners were not involved…and were somehow victims of this as well…the fact is they were complicent in this.
PV was the owner of that one IIRC.
Besides, that is no excuse.
Look. I bear the man no ill will. Just do not think he should be reinstated as he has flaunted his status and done everything possible to circumvent it instead of taking the punishemnt as intended. Those who choose to retain him are free to do so…but don’t flaunt the fact he is not allowed on the property and wink, wink the whole thing. Rather condescending IMO.
Far as others being involved, yeah. There were. But NOT everybody, not even the majority. That is about as much justification as a kid telling his parents “but everybody else does it”. Hogwash.
[QUOTE=Moesha;3697395]
But the owners were the ones calling the shots…it’s not like he just walked through the barn and picked out horses to have killed. The owners wanted to collect the money, it was a racket a scheme…I’m not defending him, by any means, but one thing that seems to falsely prevail over these threads is the idea the owners were not involved…and were somehow victims of this as well…the fact is they were complicent in this.[/QUOTE]
True dat, however, the correct response on PV’s part should have been “then go do it in someone else’s barn” not “well let me make some calls and set it up for you and give the killer access to the horses”. And when it applied and there was adequate proof the owners were prosecuted as well, I believe, at least some of them.
[QUOTE=Moesha;3697395]
But the owners were the ones calling the shots…it’s not like he just walked through the barn and picked out horses to have killed. The owners wanted to collect the money, it was a racket a scheme…I’m not defending him, by any means, but one thing that seems to falsely prevail over these threads is the idea the owners were not involved…and were somehow victims of this as well…the fact is they were complicent in this.[/QUOTE]
He was the owner of the horse he was convicted for.
In some cases, it is known that underperforming horses were killed without the knowledge of the junior owners. Any trainer who would have the ethics to talk to an owner about defrauding their insurance would probably also have the ethics not to bother having that conversation. Old horse is a problem, causing embarrassment; no better way to a fresh start (and another commission).
If I were an insurance company, I would not want to pay out on a horse who died in the care of someone convicted for insurance fraud. Insurance companies won’t have forgotten.
I have no problem whatsoever with believing that the “junior owners” may have been unaware, but really there is no such thing. If the rider is a junior, then their parents owned the horse and paid the bills. So I would imagine that any decisions made or discussions would have been made by and with them, not the kid.
[QUOTE=Jaegermonster;3697446]
True dat, however, the correct response on PV’s part should have been “then go do it in someone else’s barn” not “well let me make some calls and set it up for you and give the killer access to the horses”. And when it applied and there was adequate proof the owners were prosecuted as well, I believe, at least some of them.[/QUOTE]
I agree, I just was pointing out that he was not on some personal mission to kill people’s horses…there was a whole system in place, while he was an integral part of it there was no case where he killed a client’s horse for his own gain or vendetta…the client’s were in on it…I think that is an important lesson to remember from this as well…
I think we all agree that all parties in any way involved in this horse killing are reprehensible and repulsive wastes of oxygen.
However, PV seems to be the main one giving everyone the bird and thumbing his nose at the rules by sending his students and employees into places that he and his associates are not supposed to be. And that is where most decent people take exception.
Everyone makes mistakes. We all have broken rules. Fine. No one is perfect.
But when you do these things, then you should be prepared to suffer the consequences and take your medicine. PV seems determined not to do this.
And I don’t feel one bit sorry for those who have been fined for their associations with him.
When you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas.
[QUOTE=Jaegermonster;3697745]
I think we all agree that all parties in any way involved in this horse killing are reprehensible and repulsive wastes of oxygen.
However, PV seems to be the main one giving everyone the bird and thumbing his nose at the rules by sending his students and employees into places that he and his associates are not supposed to be. And that is where most decent people take exception.
Everyone makes mistakes. We all have broken rules. Fine. No one is perfect.
But when you do these things, then you should be prepared to suffer the consequences and take your medicine. PV seems determined not to do this.
And I don’t feel one bit sorry for those who have been fined for their associations with him.
When you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely! From his actions he seems to bear no remorse either. I love the “lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas!” (No offense to dogs of course!)
Killing horses for the insurance money has been around for a long time. Several prominent AQHA trainers/judges were convicted in the courts way back in the 70s. The AQHA has ZERO tolerance for this. The guilty could never, ever, have a chance of being reinstated. Several world-winning trainers ended up losing everything. To this day, 35 years later, they cannot set foot on the grounds of any AQHA-sanctioned show.
Does anyone know where in Ocala? I heard that he had been giving lessons at a farm here, but not that he was going to be located here.
Fined? Who has been fined?
