Paul valliere

I think there’s a HUGE difference between the WORDS (which we probably have all used at some point about some living being in our lives) and actually CONSIDERING the action. The words are (usually/hopefully) an expression of momentary frustration - although I prefer “she’s gonna drive me to drink - A LOT!!!” since there’s more than one superstitious bone in my body. Blowing off steam - NOT downing a quart of Jack.

On the other hand, SERIOUS consideration about killing her (which to me would include the REAL desire to see her dead and thinking about how to accomplish that) would concern me enough to suggest seeking counseling.

Yes, thank you. I can say all day long I want to kill someone, shoot them, run them off the road, etc but I’m not seriously considering it. Nor would I ever consider it.
So what’s the reply to the scenerio? If PV had the chance to cash in again on insurance by having a horse killed and he knew there was no possible way to get caught or suspected of it…can those supporting him honestly say he never would?
He’s not shown remorse except for being caught. He was darned quick to jump for the rat deal too over the issue. He’s flaunted the rules for years, thumbing his nose by not even trying to be discreet about it.He killed horses for money, he surrounded himself with clients happy to do the same, he turned rat the second the ship was sinking, he showed no remorse for the actual deaths he caused and he ignored the rules and basically almost gave the finger to the entire show world by being blatant about it.
Yeah, wonderful person to align oneself with. Sure he’s got talent. Sure he’s got a “name.” (although not a good name, just an infamous one to the majority) And as long as his clients win…they don’t care. This business never was one known for ethics and morals and his clients prove that point. Nobody is surprised he has clients though…after all he was part of knocking off his clients’ horses with their knowledge. So having clients isn’t unusual, there’s always folks willing to go for fame, ribbons or money no matter how far into the bottom of the barrel they have to scrape to get it. :no:

So are PV riders winning???

I am NOT the IrishRyder who posted previously on here and wanted this to end. I’d be happy if the horse world NEVER stopped talking about it so there wouldn’t be people stupid enough to call this a “little mistake”! And another thing - while it’s not murder, putting spikes in horses’ jumping boots needs to be stopped (while I’m on the topic of animal abuse)! These are precious animals who generously give of themselves, and WE have an obligation to look out for their welfare throughout their lifespan!! How can you call premeditated murder for hire and financial gain, a little mistake??!

[QUOTE=shade;3706770]
So are PV riders winning???[/QUOTE]

Does it matter?

[QUOTE=shade;3706770]
So are PV riders winning???[/QUOTE]

Only short-term. It’ll catch up with them eventually. Trust.

[QUOTE=justathought;3719140]
Does it matter?[/QUOTE]

Nope not at all…just curious.

PV

The reality is that he was caught once. Who knows how many times he got away with this but it certainly was more than once and once was more than enough. I own a Paint horse that I bought from an abusive “trainer” to save the horses life. The only reason I can think of to give money to unscrupulous, abusive or murderous “professionals” would be to save the life of an animal. Anything else is just hypocritical selfishness. You can’t really expect anyone to believe that you are a true lover of animals if you give your money to an abuser of animals. What you really are is someone who is only interested in your own advancement no matter what the avenue you have to take to get there (ie one step away from a person who would kill an animal for money). If your neighbor murdered their child because they were strapped for cash would you help them to continue to live a comfortable life by supporting them with your hard earned money? Only if you were not so much a lover of children. A prostitute breaks the law because she needs the money. PV obviously has marketable skills and could have found other ways to make a buck in a tight economy. Shame on any one who helps him to continue to live a comfortable life. If he feels regret about his past actions thank goodness for that but his regretfullness should not illicit our forgetfullness.

What happened in Aachen w McClain? I think it was before I was hunter/jumper ing

[QUOTE=luvs2ridewbs;3720013]
What happened in Aachen w McClain? I think it was before I was hunter/jumper ing[/QUOTE]

Yes, someone please fill us in…I’ve been out of the H/J loop for many years.

In 1999 McLain was found to be reponsible for plastic chips that fell out of one of his horse’s boots at Aachen – http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=1587

Oh yes, I do rememeber hearing about this

For anyone that has not read the book, Hot Blood, it really is a gripping story. Amazon has it used for $4 bucks including shipping. http://www.amazon.com/ Hot Blood by Ken Englade

so after reading most of the things that have been stated against paul and knowing him personally and riding with him, I will be the first to stand behind him. While he is my secondary trainer I would proudly show under his name anyday of the week. While I do understand that some of you cannot get past the past and I do understand as I would NEVER even be able to function should this happen to my horse I WILL swear by Paul as a trainer and a person. Everyone is young and has done things they are not proud of and has had to deal with the ramifications of those actions, Paul has done so and is still doing so SO BACK OFF! You don’t like him FINE stay away BUT do not ever tell one of his stuents that they are unwelcome or unwanted becasue they choose to ride with him, its our choice like its yours not to! Paul is not only an amazing trianer BUT he has a heart of gold I know that most of you will say I’m wrong or lying but Paul is one of the best people I know and I do believe that in his heart he is sorry and would take it back if he could. I understand that you do not like him but do not knock him if you don’t know him personally NOW. Pauls a man of great intentions and one of the only people I would ever trust with my horse, who is my life. Paul made mistakes yes and maybe back then he was different but now I know him and I can say I have never seen someone so dedicated to the horses in his life or those beyond it. I bet most of you on here didn’t know this but Paul paid to have shippers go into LA when Katrina hit so the horses could stay at his barn or others even when the owners couldn’t pay full board. Paul is also dedicated to those he trains, he tells them that they can show under whoever they choose so that they do not feel the repercussions of his actions.

while I do respect your opnions I think you all need to stop being so judgemental of someone you don’t know. I was the same wayabout Paul and then I met him and saw what he does with horses and riders and I have never respected someone more then him…he lost it all and came back determined to show everyone that yea he was wrong but he CAN and HAS done different and continues to do so.

You know something OBAS? For a living, I recruit and interview people. I place them in very high places and not so high places. One thing I do with each and every one is “behavioral based” interviewing. That means interviewing around how an individual reacts to different scenarios, how one meets challenges and overcomes obstacles. The reason behind this type of interview is finding the true person because PEOPLE DO NOT CHANGE. That is a simple fact. I may have improved myself over many years but my base, my beliefs and my core are the same. I HAVE NOT CHANGED. And that my dear poster is the way it is. Have a good night.

http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff

[QUOTE=ohbrotherandsister;3723867]
so after reading most of the things that have been stated against paul and knowing him personally and riding with him, I will be the first to stand behind him. While he is my secondary trainer I would proudly show under his name anyday of the week. While I do understand that some of you cannot get past the past and I do understand as I would NEVER even be able to function should this happen to my horse I WILL swear by Paul as a trainer and a person. Everyone is young and has done things they are not proud of and has had to deal with the ramifications of those actions, Paul has done so and is still doing so SO BACK OFF! You don’t like him FINE stay away BUT do not ever tell one of his stuents that they are unwelcome or unwanted becasue they choose to ride with him, its our choice like its yours not to! Paul is not only an amazing trianer BUT he has a heart of gold I know that most of you will say I’m wrong or lying but Paul is one of the best people I know and I do believe that in his heart he is sorry and would take it back if he could. I understand that you do not like him but do not knock him if you don’t know him personally NOW. Pauls a man of great intentions and one of the only people I would ever trust with my horse, who is my life. Paul made mistakes yes and maybe back then he was different but now I know him and I can say I have never seen someone so dedicated to the horses in his life or those beyond it. I bet most of you on here didn’t know this but Paul paid to have shippers go into LA when Katrina hit so the horses could stay at his barn or others even when the owners couldn’t pay full board. Paul is also dedicated to those he trains, he tells them that they can show under whoever they choose so that they do not feel the repercussions of his actions.

while I do respect your opnions I think you all need to stop being so judgemental of someone you don’t know. I was the same wayabout Paul and then I met him and saw what he does with horses and riders and I have never respected someone more then him…he lost it all and came back determined to show everyone that yea he was wrong but he CAN and HAS done different and continues to do so.[/QUOTE]

IT WASN’T A MISTAKE!!! A mistake is forgetting to take your martingale off for a flat class, or going off course. It’s NOT paying someone to kill a horse for money!!!

And he has to tell “his” students to show with whomever they like, because he cannot take credit as a trainer or be on the showgrounds because HE PAID TO HAVE A HORSE KILLED AND TRIED TO COMMIT INS FRAUD. He’s not being “kind”.

And we all knew about the Katrina thing, because he had a HUGE ad telling how wonderful he was hoping to sway USEF to reinstate him.

Please pass the Koolaid. My hands are feeling like two balloons. Hello, is there anybody out there… your lips moving but I can’t hear you speak…

And I bet you think the authorities are just picking on OJ…

Sure, but that’s because he CAN’T sign your entry blank because he is suspended. And if a trainer is acting on his behalf they’ll get suspended too.
It really has nothing to do with him worrying about clients avoiding repercussions.

Just for fun, the next time you show try to get him to sign your entry blank.

So, in other words, if he had killed your horse you’d be non-functional, but because he killed a horse that didn’t belong to you, it’s all good.

Interesting ethical calisthenics, that.

Every time PV comes up, people inevitably say things like “I wouldn’t trust him around my horse” or “what if it had been your horse that was killed?” People, Paul is/was not a “thrill killer”. His motivation was insurance money. The point was getting an insurance check, and if his name or the name of a client who was in on the scam wasn’t on an insurance policy, what would be the point of killing the horse? Anyone who implies he randomly killed horses is misinformed.

FWIW, I was a client of Paul’s years ago, and I learned a huge amount from him. I would not, however, ride with him or do business with him again once I found out about his crime. Morally, I still have big issues with him, and I choose not to support his business based on that. But I certainly wouldn’t worry about the safety of clients’ horses in his barn, or be concerned that he would go on a killing spree some night!