Absolutely I don’t think he would go on a random killing spree, either. However, it does show that he put what should be his very first priority at the very end. As horsemen, we put the best interests of the horse ahead of everything else.
I don’t think he’d go on a killing spree, but I would know that he doesn’t put the horse’s best interests first. That would be enough to make me feel uncomfortable if I were taking a lesson and my horse felt “funny”. I think rather than cancel the lesson, he might say the the horse is fine.
[QUOTE=alterbecauseimacoward;2659246]
So I’ve been searching online for stuff about Paul Valliere, because I’ve been taking a few lessons with him and wanted to know more about this whole horse-killing thing. Of course the Chronicle forums came up in my search, and y’all clearly really hate him. My question for you is: why? I mean, yes, it’s terrible that he had a horse electrocuted for the insurance money. But it was a mistake made like 10 years ago. So what exactly is the problem with him?[/QUOTE]
anyone that stoops that low in order to get money as they cant afford horses isnt worth p in a pot
by the way i have never heard of him and owuldnt even give him the time of day
that wasnt a mistake as far as i have read it factual to gain money by deception which is fruadulent
if he cant afford horses or cant get enough lesson then he should change his carreer plan of either owning horses or teaching with horses here it would be a no no struck of for good
No one thinks he will go on a killing fest, but what he did shows a lack of empathy, or connection to the horse, and animals in general. Working with animals is not for someone that treats them as a tool, or an inanimate object to be used at will. He has shown that they are nothing to him but dollar signs. That is not someone I want near a horse.
To those who replied to my post, thanks for your insight, and fwiw I believe we are on the same page. I only posted because the “what if he decided to kill your horse?” posts just strike me as ignorant and rub me the wrong way for some reason.
Oh, and jetsmom, if PV still operates like he used to when I rode with him, if your horse appeared lame in a lesson, he wouldn’t have you keep riding it, he’d have one of his grooms bring your horse back to the barn and bring out another one for you. Incidentally, that was the only thing that bothered me about riding with PV: the sense that the horses were disposeable and replaceable. Althogh I learned a lot about riding from Paul, it was other trainers who taught me about horsemanship if I was on a horse that came up lame - the kind of trainers who would walk their students through the diagnosis of a lameness, and teach them how to medicate, wrap, rehab, etc. I didn’t see a lot of that going on at Acres Wild.
Vandy - but at Acres Wild you were paying Paul to train you to RIDE horses and ribbon at finals. You paid day care for the grooms to care for your animal. You paid for full service at Acres Wild, and that’s what you got. If you wanted horsemanship, you should have been in Pony Club.
(not knocking pony club! i was in it for years, and worked for PV for several as one of those people who fixed your lame horse)
I am a student of the 80’s and Paul was at the top of one of the highest pedestals ever created back in my junior years. Sadly, he fell off it and I am not going to ever be one to lift him back on. There are lots of good and decent trainers out there. It is just as easy to train with the good ones. Sorry.
I’m still trying to figure out how anyone can say “he lost everything”.
[QUOTE=Quinn;3723872]
You know something OBAS? For a living, I recruit and interview people. I place them in very high places and not so high places. One thing I do with each and every one is “behavioral based” interviewing. That means interviewing around how an individual reacts to different scenarios, how one meets challenges and overcomes obstacles. The reason behind this type of interview is finding the true person because PEOPLE DO NOT CHANGE. That is a simple fact. I may have improved myself over many years but my base, my beliefs and my core are the same. I HAVE NOT CHANGED. And that my dear poster is the way it is. Have a good night.
http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff[/QUOTE]
How do you know they dont change? All you do is interview them. That’s like a cop saying everyone I arrest is guilty. The premise of your employment is that people don’t change. I don’t think you have a leg to stand on.
[QUOTE=slainte!;3725092]
Vandy - but at Acres Wild you were paying Paul to train you to RIDE horses and ribbon at finals. You paid day care for the grooms to care for your animal. You paid for full service at Acres Wild, and that’s what you got. If you wanted horsemanship, you should have been in Pony Club.
(not knocking pony club! i was in it for years, and worked for PV for several as one of those people who fixed your lame horse)[/QUOTE]
True. But I also rode at other full service barns which were competitive at finals, where my desire to be more “hands on” with my horse was encouraged. At Acres Wild, I felt like I was interfering if I wanted to groom or hand graze my horse, and it always made me feel a little uncomfortable. Just a personal thing I guess, but I felt like part of the “full service” I got at other top barns included horsemanship and stable management. Trainers or barn managers willing to take the time to teach these things seems like an valuable “full service” perk to me.
And really, it seems a little ironic to me that the kids riding with Paul, many of whom were on their way to becoming professionals, were missing this part of their education, while kids who ride at a rinky-dink barn like the one I own today, who will likely never be pros, are learning tons about horse care. As a trainer and BO, if my only education had been at Acres Wild, I might have learned how to be a good rider, but I’d have been grossly unprepared to handle my daily job.
Sorry to derail here, back to your regularly scheduled public stoning of PV 
The man is a criminal who purposely killed horses for money.
If it happened yesterday, or 20 years ago, he still did it.
I don’t even see an OPTION here except to not support such a person in any endeavour concerning horses.
I cannot think of a GOOD reason to choose him over another trainer unless one is more concerned with WINNING than they are with what is ethical? And if those pretty ribbons are the reason to choose this trainer, then those students need more than a bulletin board to talk some sense into them.
Does he have Junior riders? Do their PARENTS know his history?
The mind boggles.
Next time one of you sees his students at a big show, ask them to explain why they have chosen PV, despite his criminal activity in the past. I’d be interested in the justifications.
NJR
You’ve got to be kidding
Everyone has indeed been young. Many of us have done some things that we regret. Very few of were involved in an insurance scam that involved killing horses.
You cannot seriously think that what PV was convicted for doing was the only thing he ever did. It is only what he was caught doing. For many of us, 20 years doesn’t seem like it was that long ago. Certainly I remember. I also remember much of what people said about PV and other trainers during that time period. Sadly, much of what was said was proved in court to be true.
People who abuse their profession to this degree should not be allowed to sweep it under the rug and be done with it. Geez, if he had been convicted of having relationships with some of his young riders (which is not an uncommon occurance among male trainers who coach teenage girls) would all of you be lining up to ride with him? Or would you say that 20 years ago he made a mistake but you trust him to never do it again.
There are a lot of young riders who don’t know what happened; it is important for those riders and their parents to know who they are dealing with so they can make educated decisions. No one is bringing up the rumors. It’s enough to state the facts.
ahhh, Bogie…I so agree with you, but I fear our younger riders, from the OP to OBAS have a different view…
I have to ask these young people…is owning a horse something that comes at the expense of ANYTHING else in your life? I ask because I get a sense that there is very little real investment in the horse - either from a “wow, I’m SO incredibly lucky I can HAVE a horse” or even a “I love my pony and want him in my room” standpoint. I cannot help but wonder if horses aren’t just another toy, like a new iPod, to be simply tossed and replaced when broken for people like that…
That anyone can say “well, yeah, he had a horse killed, but, like, it was way before I was born so why should anyone care?” boggles the mind, and truly makes me question what kind of parenting and homelife is present.
Murder for money - of ANY living being - is, at least in my low rent world, WRONG. There are no shades of grey there. Showing no public remorse for that murder, and showing blatant disrespect of the industry by flaunting the spirit of its censures after the murder, say all anyone raised with a shred of a conscious needs to know IMO.
I spoke with a racehorse trainer today who had a client call him up asking to “get the horse gone” to collect on an insurance policy after the horse incurred an injury that required some time off. The trainer told him, “Take the horse and don’t you ever call me again.”
It isn’t hard to do the right thing.
[QUOTE=ohbrotherandsister;3723867]
so after reading most of the things that have been stated against paul and knowing him personally and riding with him, I will be the first to stand behind him. While he is my secondary trainer I would proudly show under his name anyday of the week.
mud sticks and you wouldnt get far, you would be tared with the same brush
While I do understand that some of you cannot get past the past and I do understand as I would NEVER even be able to function should this happen to my horse I WILL swear by Paul as a trainer and a person.
is he good looking ? young fluffs love the attention of a good looking bloke and will swear down to to stick by them until one day the light switch is turned on and they realise
they been duped by charm
Everyone is young and has done things they are not proud of and has had to deal with the ramifications of those actions, Paul has done so and is still doing so SO BACK OFF!
most people dont over step the line----- as when young ones taught right from wrong at a very early age, ------ he did over step the line by doing what he did so there there no back out of his own actions-- he that to himself for money
any good trianer if in hardship times would sell the horse or re home it somehow
and us e a business management team which are avaible from all banks and proffesional services as to where in his business he can utilise his services with out the need to excute a horse for insurnace monies
its called a cash flow programme ie a budget plan
we all have one to work to when we start work as our wages have to cover our costs
You don’t like him FINE stay away BUT do not ever tell one of his stuents that they are unwelcome or unwanted becasue they choose to ride with him, its our choice like its yours not to!
maybe but like i said mud sticks- see how far you get then decide
mabye its because hes cheap and thats all you can afford
what you pay for is what you get
Paul is not only an amazing trianer BUT he has a heart of gold I know that most of you will say I’m wrong or lying but Paul is one of the best people I know and I do believe that in his heart he is sorry and would take it back if he could
he can be a good trianer but theres always a but good trianer dont do wha he did in order to survive and good trianers dont need to as there repretation keeps them in work 365 days of the year
all good qualified trianers are listed on all associated web sites with the FEI
listed as either accredited trianers or coaches
which in includes the american pony clubs or 4- hclubs
also hunts as the often have a pc club running alongside of them and driving, dressage and show jumping
there are also in your country many british qualfied trianers
there no excuse not to find a decent trianer that has a proven background
in order to teach and trian you
. I understand that you do not like him but do not knock him if you don’t know him personally NOW. Pauls a man of great intentions and one of the only people I would ever trust with my horse, who is my life.
a leopard dont change his spots
Paul made mistakes yes and maybe back then he was different but now I know him and I can say I have never seen someone so dedicated to the horses in his life or those beyond it.
obviously you love this man with great affections---- no one change your feelings
but be aware truth is always honest
I bet most of you on here didn’t know this but Paul paid to have shippers go into LA when Katrina hit so the horses could stay at his barn or others even when the owners couldn’t pay full board. Paul is also dedicated to those he trains, he tells them that they can show under whoever they choose so that they do not feel the repercussions of his actions.
bully for him so did a lot of other people and rescues
and they didnt need to do it just to get a status in the world they did it out of love
while I do respect your opnions I think you all need to stop being so judgemental of someone you don’t know. I was the same wayabout Paul and then I met him and saw what he does with horses and riders and I have never respected someone more then him…he lost it all and came back determined to show everyone that yea he was wrong but he CAN and HAS done different and continues to do so.[/QUOTE]
i dont respect those that dont respect living things be it animal or human
my dear people use people to gain things ytou remember that as i bet he sure dont repsect you in the same way you respect him
and i surely wouldnt have anyone like that on my yard or asscoiate myself with
his actions someone that has no quarms about killing ahorse for money has no guarms
for doing it to a human ------ and someone that can do that has an odd up bringing
as its the most cold and callous thing
its not and wasnt a mistake - its was pre meditated in a court of law with a human being
he would be inside for life
Gosh this post is still continuing. :eek::no:
I thought I read that a horse had kicked seven bells of sh** out of him and he was seriously ill in hospital.
Does this mean the scum bag recovered and became well enough to be around a horse again? Shame if so!
And is this low life Paul Valliere still actually being supported and paid by folks with horses?
Are people honestly gullible enough to think this scum bag can and has changed his preferred behaviour? He’s cruel, heartless and dishonest. Leopards don’t change their spots and no one will ever persuade me that what he did was a single act of a moments aberration and by a desperate man. It was a planned criminal act which involved cruelty to an animal that trusted him and purely so he could profit. What a puke!!!
Or does being foolish enough to think he’s reformed just make some feel better and help with guilt avoidance to justify supporting him?
I’m of the strong view that anyone who pays him to learn to ride or to train a horse believing he’s a reformed character is just endorsing cruel and illegal practice and has no moral fortitude.
He’s not fit to be around horses and genuine horse people and with a bit of luck he’ll get more just deserves with a kick in the gonads next time he’s sitting on the fence side.
I doubt that he is one bit sorry he did it. I bet he is probably sorry he got caught though.
And I bet he does tell you all that you can show under whoever you choose, since he can’t be on a showgrounds and can’t sign your entries.
Again. It’s the dog/flea thing I mentioned before.
Good thing he is teaching you to ride. Get someone to teach you to write. It’s called a paragraph, and it’s usually made of COMPLETE SENTENCES.
Wow! You guys really get nasty! The way I look at it is that Paul got in a really bad and pressured situation and did the worst thing possible in murdering that horse. Don’t think for a minute it didn’t upset him to do it. Have you looked at pictures of him before and after? He fell apart with guilt! His life went down the tubes and his marriage failed (probably a good thing in hindsight). When he got caught, he was honest about what he had done which is more than many of the others did! He got death threats, he was spat on. He paid!
I guess my question is, how long does he have to pay? Can he do anything to be forgiven? Horses are what he knows so that is his job. While I completely condemn what he did, I think he has done his time and deserves to be returned to society on probation. This is just my opinion.
[QUOTE=Lessonlady;3727417]
Wow! You guys really get nasty! The way I look at it is that Paul got in a really bad and pressured situation and did the worst thing possible in murdering that horse. Don’t think for a minute it didn’t upset him to do it. Have you looked at pictures of him before and after? He fell apart with guilt! His life went down the tubes and his marriage failed (probably a good thing in hindsight). When he got caught, he was honest about what he had done which is more than many of the others did! He got death threats, he was spat on. He paid!
I guess my question is, how long does he have to pay? Can he do anything to be forgiven? Horses are what he knows so that is his job. While I completely condemn what he did, I think he has done his time and deserves to be returned to society on probation. This is just my opinion.[/QUOTE]
You rationalize it any way you want to if it makes you feel better about it.
Have you looked at pictures of the horse he killed, before and after? How long does HE have to pay? Oh, that’s right…FOREVER…because HE’S DEAD.
Poor Poor Paul. Whatever.
I would think it’s STILL a violation of USEF rules…
No Matter who signs your entries as Trainer, your a student of and showing for the benefit of PV, think about a couple years ago when Michael Cintas was suspended and sent his assistant to the show with his clients, I know that’s A LITTLE DIFFERENT, but I would say not much. Anyone who trains with a PERMANENTLY suspended person, could get in trouble at shows for showing to the benefit of that person, in this case PV…
