Well said :yes:!
Just to play devils advocate: If they did something else (got out of horses altogether) then why would they want reinstatement for USEF? Also, How do you prove that you are repentant and can be involved with horses without killing them for the insurance money? It would seem like they would have to stay involved with horses in some capacity in order to prove themselves worthy of reinstatement.
Also, PV did admit wrongdoing to the Feds. I don’t know about the others.
Yes, it pertains to everyone.
Yes, you should write to the USEF.
But it’s also important not to forget what happened and to educate new generations of equestrians.
I think COTH is a perfectly appropriate forum for that education to take place.
Many young riders (and the parents who pay the bills) are not aware of the crimes that certain people in the horse community were convicted of committing. It is wrong to hide that information. People should be able to make their own choices about who they choose to support with their pocketbooks.
There are plenty of excellent trainers out there who did not kill horses for insurance money or commit insurance fraud.
We are not talking about repeating unsubstantiated rumors here . . .
[QUOTE=Thoroughbred1201;4779771]
I think the reason this strikes such a chord for many of us is not only the crime, but the continued flaunting of the suspensions. Had they accepted the punishment, shown remorse, and done something else for the time period to prove they’ve changed their ways, I don’t know that people would be so resistant. People love to forgive the penitent.[/QUOTE]
Yes, it is the “in your face, I will do what I want, and you have no ability to punish me” that shows clearly the thug mentality.
Not just them - the whole sprawling issues of a wider population and their amoral goings on - nice crowd. Birds of a feather, we say. Creepy bunch.
It just reflects poorly on the USEF for being a wimpy juggernaut incapable of enforcing basic sportsmanship rules we pay them to govern.
I don’t know why you are all moaning about the USEF
If people simply refused to give them patronage, then none of these people would be in the horse business any longer. If there are people in the horse show world that can over look the most awful crimes, committed soley for greed, when let’s face it, there are plenty of very very good trainers who haven’t ever killed a horse (or had a horse killed) for insurance money, then why bitch and moan about the governing body? The industry should have self regulated them out of business by the sheer loathing.
But I’m sure those that still train and show with them have the same sort of need to be in that environment as say, women who become pen pals with and then marry, death row inmates. Really creeps me out. There’s no accounting for taste.
[QUOTE=slainte!;4779568]
Tegan,
Since you obviously don’t socialize in this crowd - it doesn’t pertain to you, now does it?
Paul Valliere and Barney Ward will continue to train horses and riders until the day they die. If you have a problem with that - write to USEF, not the Chronicle BB.[/QUOTE]
So, what-you are a part of this crowd?
Why on God’s green earth would you advertise such a thing?
I mean really.
[QUOTE=2ndyrgal;4780685]
If people simply refused to give them patronage, then none of these people would be in the horse business any longer. If there are people in the horse show world that can over look the most awful crimes, committed soley for greed, when let’s face it, there are plenty of very very good trainers who haven’t ever killed a horse (or had a horse killed) for insurance money, then why bitch and moan about the governing body? The industry should have self regulated them out of business by the sheer loathing.
But I’m sure those that still train and show with them have the same sort of need to be in that environment as say, women who become pen pals with and then marry, death row inmates. Really creeps me out. There’s no accounting for taste.[/QUOTE]
It’s not that simple. At this point in the game when bad actors are still able to influence the sport, the USEF as the governing body, should regulate according to their mission statement. It’s their mission, not my bitchin…
[QUOTE=2ndyrgal;4780685]
The industry should have self regulated them out of business by the sheer loathing.[/QUOTE]
Boy, no kidding. I think I’m more creeped out by the fact that horsepeople (and I use the term loosely) actually still ride with these two miscreants than I am with the actual acts they committed.
Go Fish, I’m with you on this one. It takes “guilty by association” to a new level. Greed is as greed does. Smacks of narcissism.
If the USEF really did their enforcement…
I think ANYONE who boarded and/or trained with a KNOWN suspended, especially LIFETIME BANNED, trainer. Would NOT be able to show themselves. Because they would be showing for the BENEFIT and REPUTATION of a suspended person. I know it would be difficult to follow, and hard to prove for positive.
I really wish they would do something about these trainers that DON'T belong on a horse farm anymore..[QUOTE=slainte!;4779568]
Tegan,
Since you obviously don’t socialize in this crowd - it doesn’t pertain to you, now does it?
Paul Valliere and Barney Ward will continue to train horses and riders until the day they die. If you have a problem with that - write to USEF, not the Chronicle BB.[/QUOTE]
This is quite a bizarre response to a poster just asking a simple QUESTION. What ‘crowd’ are you referring to? Greedy horse-killers or COTHers? Not sure why you think it doesn’t pertain to her, it pertains to ANY horseman as it is wrong and true crime in the sport. I thought that should already be very obvious.
I think it’s fine to post here and keep this very old thread resurfacing from time to time.
If the USEF did it’s damned job, it would not be necessary to ask that people remain aware of who PV and Co. are, what they did, and why anyone with a half-decent set of ethics ought to refuse to patronize them.
Really, voting with your wallet is the only recourse left since our governing body punted.
Originally Posted by slainte! View Post
Tegan,
Since you obviously don’t socialize in this crowd - it doesn’t pertain to you, now does it?
Paul Valliere and Barney Ward will continue to train horses and riders until the day they die. If you have a problem with that - write to USEF, not the Chronicle BB.
Keep talking slainte…Barney will love you for it:eek:. I was on the circuit when all this crap was going down…Barney is a bigger skank then Paul…trust me on this. Paul is a very close 2nd. Anyone who rides/trains with them is condoning their prior actions in my book. Don’t kid yourself that they have made amends and changed their ways…leopards don’t change their spots especially those two individuals. I guarantee their is still skanky underhanded crap going down at their barns today and every day.
You know, kenny, I usually don’t agree with your negativity but you are right on target here.
The sick thing is it is no secret. Won’t say that “everybody” knows but when you mention those (and some others notorious today for consistently skirting both USEF rules and basic ethics in dealing with horses and clients) names and whoever you are talking to hesitates or rolls their eyes??? Kind of a clue, ya think? unfortunately one that is usually ignored or blown off.
One thing though…the USEF is the governing body of a sport. Not a civil or criminal law enforcement agency and it must act within the rules of whatever jurisdiction this stuff goes on in. Only so far they can go and they cannot go off property operating under the USEF rules (showgrounds on a show day) and shut down a business. Long as people hire them to care for and train the horses, they can stay in business if no local laws are violated.
There is a shady underbelly of this sport (and all the others) and it is not hard to see it. But you have to look under the rock-many see a shiney top and never bother to turn it over (sorry for the metaphor but it fits).
There are more then enough ethical horseman out there to deal with. And more has gone on and will continue to go on then this particular group was convicted for. Not as openly dramatic, perhaps, but still totally unethical.
So are the reports of BW standing 3 ft off the show grounds true? The horses shown and ridden up into a trailer for a speedy get away?
Scary if true, incendiary rumor-mongering if not, but this was the kind of thing I have heard.
I can see those guys trying to stay in business just short of showing. After all, this is what they spent their adult lives doing and very few people really want to retool for an entirely different career. It just bugs me that the fallout is so minimal that they do stay, belly right up to the showing bar.
I don’t know about Barney doing it but saw with my own eyes Paul doing it. For the life of me I can’t remember the name of guy who is or was working for PV (he used to work with Mark Jungherr) but anyways, I had always thought that kid was a nice kid until I heard he went to work for PV. Just by taking a job with that skank , I have changed my opinion of him and not for the better. You lie down with dogs, you will get up with fleas…and even if you don’t…most everyone will think you have fleas just by association.
Findeight…I’m not negative about EVERYTHING.
[QUOTE=mvp;4781747]
So are the reports of BW standing 3 ft off the show grounds true? The horses shown and ridden up into a trailer for a speedy get away?
Scary if true, incendiary rumor-mongering if not, but this was the kind of thing I have heard.
I can see those guys trying to stay in business just short of showing. After all, this is what they spent their adult lives doing and very few people really want to retool for an entirely different career. It just bugs me that the fallout is so minimal that they do stay, belly right up to the showing bar.[/QUOTE]
I have not heard of BW doing it, but have seen PV doing it. He does it from off the grounds via cell phone or two way radio.
Thanks on the BW vs PV clarification. I stand corrected. We should try to be as accurate and fair as we’d like others to be.
