Pawing when tied

[crazybootlady]

Not really sure where to post. I’m an aspiring ammy eventer bringing my four year old along as much by myself as I can.

His only real issue is tying. He ties, doesn’t pull back or spook (and on the off chance he does, he has always stepped back up). The issue is that he paws horribly. In cross ties, or a single tie. We went XC schooling Saturday and even after a few hours of riding, when he was tied to the trailer with his haybag he still just stood and pawed.

I should know the answer to this but I’ve tried all I know, leaving him tied for hours, tying with aforementioned haybag, in view of other horses and by himself, I just feel like I am out of ideas.

Thanks for any suggestions.

[SuzieQNutter]

You can’t teach anything - Horse, dog, husband - to do anything unsupervised.

Supervised you can teach him to stand still. Unsupervised you can only hope.

[crazybootlady]

I guess my worries are when he’s tied to the trailer at a show and I. have to be able to leave him long enough to change, get water etc… There are going to be times when he has to be somewhat unsupervised. Just fishing for ideas, thanks for your input.

[rizzodm]

I had a Haflinger that always left a hole from all her pawing. She was fine at home, would just do it away from home. The only solution I found was to pay for a stall at the show grounds.

[beowulf]

four is still young. you may not know it since it sounds like your guy is very reasonable pawing aside, but they are so terrible limited in their patience and attention span.

that being said if they paw tied, they USUALLY paw during other times… most of the pawing-while-tying i’ve seen has been from horses who get treats… they trained their person to dispense the treats when they’re good… and then the person tries to reward them for just standing instead of pawing… it’s not a nice cycle.

IMO i don’t tolerate pawing. any horse that paws in front of me gets a very sharp whack (with a whip) to the offending leg. they usually try it one or two more times (i had one that was very smart and would lift up the leg on the opposite side i was standing on…) before they give up. i personally think pawing is a very dangerous habit… not just to themselves but to people who may be within striking range.

[crazybootlady]

Beowulf- I really don’t notice him pawing other than when tied. He VERY rarely will paw when I am near him, and the dressage whip is how I got my previous horse to quit. He took one or two good cracks and really didn’t have a problem after that.

I will agree with you, he has been trained to paw. From weaning til his two year old year, he was owned by an elderly couple who indulged him with treats and pets when he became impatient and pawed when tied.

[walkers]

My horse paws , when tied, when eating, when happy, when the trailer is not moving. I talked to a few trainers and they sayit takes a lot of time to break the pawing habit. Do NOt HIT your horse.What terrible advice.
Goggle pawing and you’ll find some good advice but its time consumming and I’ve just been to lazy to spend the day breaking the habit.
He came to me with the problem and he was a show horse that traveled a lot before i got him. You can train him with soft hobbles but never use them in a trailer or unsupervised.
Good Luck

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=walkers;8071394]
My horse paws , when tied, when eating, when happy, when the trailer is not moving. I talked to a few trainers and they sayit takes a lot of time to break the pawing habit. Do NOt HIT your horse.What terrible advice.
Goggle pawing and you’ll find some good advice but its time consumming and I’ve just been to lazy to spend the day breaking the habit.
He came to me with the problem and he was a show horse that traveled a lot before i got him. You can train him with soft hobbles but never use them in a trailer or unsupervised.
Good Luck[/QUOTE]

is your horse pawing, as in digging in the ground? or is he lifting his leg? i’d never discipline a horse that was only curling his leg (like the TBs OTT seem to do during feed time). but pawing, loudly and obnoxiously? it’s dangerous. i’ve seen a horse that was being bratty while tied manage to slide his leg through the round pen panel he was tied to (safety tied, w/ twine on the post too) get his leg stuck and panic. he flew back and took three panels with him. the tie broke right away and the post stayed put but his leg brought the entire fence down.

entirely, completely unavoidable if his owner had of disciplined him for pawing instead of constantly hand-feeding him treats while tied.

i disagree it’s terrible advice. it’s quick and it’s the horse’s language. you think the herd boss tolerates a subordinate pawing in his/her face? i don’t think so. YMMV. what is your advice to stop this behavior?

[Sparrowette]

My mare paws when I’M AROUND AND NEARBY. When I’m on the other end of the world, she’ll stand fine. It’s the prima donna thing with her. “It’s all about ME, ME, Me!” COME PAY ATTENTION TO ME!

How does yours behave when you’re not handy? Might be different…

[walkers]

My horse is digging though i’d call it pawing, not dangerous except if he put a crack in the wood floor of my trailer( i check). He doesn’t paw/dig if the trailers moving. He has dug a hole in front of his food bucket, he eats outside from a black tub tied( old twine) to fence post. All horses are tied to eat so its not anxiety but a bad habit which he came to me with from a very successful trainer.

I’d love to find a way to stop the pawing. He is out 24/7 but i know if he were in a stall he’d probably dig which is curious as being a show horse he was stalled much of his life till I got him . He is a dirty, messy, trail horse now.
So love to learn how to stop this behavior. He’ll stop if I verbally correct him but not for long.

I have never found negative reinforcement to be effective except in the short term and the horse will behave when he sees you or when you carry a crop. But this doesn’t change his conditioning and he will do it when you’re out of sight.

Remember intermittent reinforcement is the most effective way to reinforce a behavior. So unless you can always hit him when he paws you are unintentionally
strengthening this behavior.
You can use a classical behavioral schedule to change his pawing but I’ve been warned it takes a long time and since my boy is just annoying and not dangerous I’ve honestly been too lazy . Its a big mistake to start a battle you aren’t going to win (my time and energy vs his).

[crazybootlady]

My guy paws if I am NOT right by him. If I’m just out of his sight, he’s worse. If I’m actually grooming or messing with him he doesn’t paw.

[cutter99]

Hobble break him. Or find a professional to hobble break him for you! Stops a pawler every time!

[kcmel]

@walkers;8073063

Remember intermittent reinforcement is the most effective way to reinforce a behavior. So unless you can always hit him when he paws you are unintentionally
strengthening this behavior.

This isn’t intermittent reinforcement. It’s intermittent punishment. It will take longer to extinguish the unwanted behavior, but won’t strengthen it.

–A behavioral neuroscientist

[chicamux]

I went thru this with one smart mare that I “rescued”. Yes, she quit as soon as I walked up to her. So I resigned myself to having a long day at the barn, brought a book along to read, then put her in the crossties. Because of the concrete aisle you could hear her pawing from quite a distance. I walked away from her and returned because she didn’t paw. I walked away further and waited, if she didn’t paw I would walk towards her then pause. If she pawed I walked away. I set up a chair at the far end of the aisle and read. When she quit pawing I would walk towards her, even touch and talk to her for a bit if she didn’t paw then leave and sit in the chair. Pawing drove me away, standing quietly would bring me back but she may have to wait a while. In under 2 hours she had it figured out.

She also pawed in a trailer every time it stopped. But after the crosstie training the trailer training was a piece of cake. Just walk away until she quit pawing go back to her but makemher wait and maybe wait more before unloading. Try it!

[crazybootlady]

cutter 99- Ive had that idea, but would it become like a dog being ‘collar’ smart with an E collar? Pawing only when there aren’t hobbles?

Chicamux–I may have to try that one. thnks

[cutter99]

Leave the hobbles on in any situation where he might paw. Eventually he will learn. Either that or you have to be on him constantly and make pawing “A VERY BAD THING” with an immediate punishment. You have to anticipate when he is going to paw and correct him if he even thinks about it.

[goodhors]

[QUOTE=crazybootlady;8075043]
cutter 99- Ive had that idea, but would it become like a dog being ‘collar’ smart with an E collar? Pawing only when there aren’t hobbles?

Chicamux–I may have to try that one. thnks[/QUOTE]

So what if he only quits pawing when hobbled? He HAS stopped the pawing!! Usually with time, the horse improves his behavior because he DOES spend time wearing the hobbles, so he gets out of the habit and is “less likely” to resume pawing when not hobbled.

I would put the hobbles on any time he MIGHT paw, he learns to not even bother as he doesn’t get to do it.

I suggest working with a trainer to teach the hobbling, to do things safely. Horse is NOT ALLOWED to EVER just “fight it out” as a training method. RUN from a trainer using this method. Get hobbles that are easily cut or removed if he should fall, nothing that might be too small in pulling his front legs tightly together. Many commercially made strap hobbles, figure 8 style, are just too small for wide chested horses. Can be painful to wear, certainly not helping fix his habit.

OP might do a search for hobbles, read what other folks have to say about teaching a horse to hobble WELL. I think learning to hobble, stand quietly tied, is good for a horse to know. Might save him from injury in another situation where he gets tangled up in something, stands and waits to be found instead of fighting to get loose.

[Griffyn]

This is one situation that I think clicker training would work well

[aliceo]

i’ve had success with the ignoring and walking away if pawing, coming to the horse and giving attention when the pawing stops. you have to be very consistent.

[wendybird]

If it’s anxiety separation ( and who would know?) tie your horse where it can see you most of the time, or hear your voice when you are, say, changing inside the truck.
Hitting and hobbles sound like punishment. I would ignore it unless he was in imminent danger of hurting himself.