People Attempting to Undermine Safe Sport

[skydy]

@Denali6298

@skydy Quite frankly the storm started when a friend joined the conversation saying “can we get back to Packy for a minute?” Everyone else had moved on.

I know, but the “storm”, started before @jennifersw decided to continue defending her friend.

It’s too bad we can’t all stay on the subject, which is: people attempting to undermine Safe Sport, but that is human nature.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@jennifersw

@Virginia Horse Mom you started a real [edit] storm here & fueled the fire at every opportunity. And now you want to shut it down. By all means…mom up and shut it down!!! This is a garbage thread!!!

I’m sorry for the loss of your friend.

On that topic… go back and read my comments. I mentioned MULTIPLE times that reports were he died in his sleep and we should leave that at that.

I also commented MULTIPLE times many people have struggled with substance abuse, and that, solely in and of itself, is not a reason for ANYONE to be sanctioned by Safe Sport. I specifically said I did not know details, and specifically said if he was in recovery, I hoped someone came forward who had facts and would share that information.

I do not know what the root of his opposition to Safe Sport was , other than what he chose to publicly share.
But yes… he did have a very well known edgy personality, had taken a VERY outspoken stance AGAINST Safe Sport, and was indeed quite loyal to a person who was banned from the sport for assaulting minor students… and yes… I’m obviously on the other side of that debate. Frankly… many people in the equestrian community are.

I really don’t wish to argue with you. You’ve come on this thread to rebut comments made about someone who was a friend of yours. Comments that you felt were unfair and not accurate. That’s fair, especially correcting the record and ending speculation on cause of death. And sharing that he had made a commitment to recovery, and been sober for his last years, and that is something which should be remembered and respected. I’m glad you came on the boards and shared that in particular. It’s important.

At this point though, I think it’s best for everyone to refocus additional comments on discussion relevant to the reason the thread was started. That was the reason for my prior comment. The mods are the only people with authority to shut down a thread. A lot of people do actually think the ongoing discussion about Safe Sport is really important, and a lot of people wish to know which professionals have taken a firm stance AGAINST it… and those folks probably don’t want to see the discussion closed now, or go further down this sidetrack. That was where my comment was coming from.

[FlaxenChestnut]

Wow. This took a nasty turn. I think I agree with the comment above that the Mods might want to take a look at some of the speculative accusations here. Despite any publicly available information, I fail to see how someone’s financial situation, or any financial decisions made by family members, has any bearing on a discussion of SafeSport. And speculating on cause of death, without access to, or knowledge of medical records or coroner reports is not only in poor taste, but harmful, IMHO.

[jennifersw]

@Virginia Horse Mom

I’m sorry for the loss of your friend.

On that topic… go back and read my comments. I mentioned MULTIPLE times that reports were he died in his sleep and we should leave that at that.

I also commented MULTIPLE times many people have struggled with substance abuse, and that, solely in and of itself, is not a reason for ANYONE to be sanctioned by Safe Sport. I specifically said I did not know details, and specifically said if he was in recovery, I hoped someone came forward who had facts and would share that information.

I do not know what the root of his opposition to Safe Sport was , other than what he chose to publicly share.
But yes… he did have a very well known edgy personality, had taken a VERY outspoken stance AGAINST Safe Sport, and was indeed quite loyal to a person who was banned from the sport for assaulting minor students… and yes… I’m obviously on the other side of that debate. Frankly… many people in the equestrian community are.

I really don’t wish to argue with you. You’ve come on this thread to rebut comments made about someone who was a friend of yours. Comments that you felt were unfair and not accurate. That’s fair, especially correcting the record and ending speculation on cause of death. And sharing that he had made a commitment to recovery, and been sober for his last years, and that is something which should be remembered and respected. I’m glad you came on the boards and shared that in particular. It’s important.

At this point though, I think it’s best for everyone to refocus additional comments on discussion relevant to the reason the thread was started. That was the reason for my prior comment. The mods are the only people with authority to shut down a thread. A lot of people do actually think the ongoing discussion about Safe Sport is really important, and a lot of people wish to know which professionals have taken a firm stance AGAINST it… and those folks probably don’t want to see the discussion closed now, or go further down this sidetrack. That was where my comment was coming from.

SafeSport is very flawed, and Packy was a (very competent) lawyer. Without rehashing any of it, and with no desire to become a permanent fixture on the thread, and while I did not agree with him about George Morris (and told him so to his face. He always swore he had more facts about the investigation than I did; I said the same to him in return; in the end we agreed to disagree and moved on), I did and do agree with him that SafeSport is flawed, dangerously flawed, and needs fixing. The number of people who pop up on the list, have their careers and lives interrupted and tarnished, only to be cleared & disappear from the list is appalling. If my opinion about this makes me an “underminer”, I’ll wear my badge proudly. Either fix it or get rid of it AND get rid of it UNTIL you fix it, was Packy’s opinion and is my opinion, too.

but @VirginiaHorseMom, you join in the snark and gossip all along here, the poking fun at the age of Bernie Traurig’s wife, getting sucked into @LexInVa’s BS conspiracy theory about Packy. I’ll say it one final time: SHAME ON ALL OF YOU. Get off of here and do something useful with your time. Start or join an actual advocacy group made up of people in the business; people with enough courage & self worth to stand on the front line and USE THEIR REAL NAMES, instead of lurking behind the hedgerow going by false handles. People whose work is based on solid proof and facts, not idle gossip and lies. Judging by your handle, you are somebody’s mom, so act like someone you’d like your kid to emulate! Peace be with you!

[jennifersw]

@skydy

To most of us,this thread is exactly about its title, not about deceased peoples real estate transactions.

Sexual abuse of minors has to stop. Safe Sport is the first step in the sports world and the equestrian world seems to be the sport that is kicking and screaming against it more than any other sport.

Why are people freaking out about a reasonable attempt to bring the horsey world into easily abided by guidelines that most professions already have in place? This is the discussion we were having.

To some of you it has become very personal.

If you have friends that are very anti Safe Sport, that have joined a public lobbying group against it , who want to financially support George Morris because he was their “friend” or “mentor”, and who support people that are bashing Anne Kursinski and all of the other victims that have been abused, I am surprised that you are here.

To correct speculation about his real estate transactions or his issues from the past? Why bash people that are having a rational discussion? You’ve gone after everyone on this thread? Have you read the whole thread or only the part where your friend was mentioned?

Perhaps you can join the anti Safe Sport group, or give some money to pay George’s rent as a memorial to your friend.

This is not a “garbage thread” and I’m sorry that you have lost a friend, I really am and I’m sorry that your friends real estate transactions came into discussion.

It is a difficult, hurtful, subject for many people. but Safe Sport needs to be discussed.

@Virginia Horse Mom did you read that?? “…give some money to pay George’s rent as a memorial to my friend?” Wow. Are you still proud of your thread?

@skydy Please see elsewhere, where I said that I disagreed with him on George- though I did and still do agree with him that SafeSport needs to be fixed, and gotten rid of until it is fixed. But a whole lot more than his real estate transactions were “discussed” here, so please don’t minimize the “discussion.”

And I’ll close with this. The powers that be at Chronicle of the Horse, who owns this forum, encouraged and supported Packy’s contributions to these controversial discussions such as SafeSport, safety in eventing, and so on. When was the last time the #1 horse publication in the country asked for your opinion, using your real name???

[rah]

“the powers that be…” also supported leaving George Morris’s name up on their stadium after he was banned and until his appeal was decided. They even released a statement in support of the decision only to take the name down a few days later. I would imagine they would be a little more ‘sensitive’ to stuff like this from now on considering how scarce sponsors will be for the foreseeable future. Usually the bigger corporations don’t want anything to do with a business that supports sexual predators of minors.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@jennifersw

SafeSport is very flawed, and Packy was a (very competent) lawyer. Without rehashing any of it, and with no desire to become a permanent fixture on the thread, and while I did not agree with him about George Morris (and told him so to his face. He always swore he had more facts about the investigation than I did; I said the same to him in return; in the end we agreed to disagree and moved on), I did and do agree with him that SafeSport is flawed, dangerously flawed, and needs fixing. The number of people who pop up on the list, have their careers and lives interrupted and tarnished, only to be cleared & disappear from the list is appalling. If my opinion about this makes me an “underminer”, I’ll wear my badge proudly. Either fix it or get rid of it AND get rid of it UNTIL you fix it, was Packy’s opinion and is my opinion, too.

but @VirginiaHorseMom, you join in the snark and gossip all along here, the poking fun at the age of Bernie Traurig’s wife, getting sucked into @LexInVa’s BS conspiracy theory about Packy. I’ll say it one final time: SHAME ON ALL OF YOU. Get off of here and do something useful with your time. Start or join an actual advocacy group made up of people in the business; people with enough courage & self worth to stand on the front line and USE THEIR REAL NAMES, instead of lurking behind the hedgerow going by false handles. People whose work is based on solid proof and facts, not idle gossip and lies. Judging by your handle, you are somebody’s mom, so act like someone you’d like your kid to emulate! Peace be with you!

Jennifer, again… I do NOT wish to argue with you.

But I said absolutely nothing about Bernie’s wife. That was a different poster. So make sure you have your facts straight before lashing out at people. I mentioned that his career was mainly as a hunter jumper rider, after someone had commented they thought he was an eventer.

Snark and gossip to call Bernie Traurig a hunter jumper and renowned equitation rider and coach?

You are correct - I am a wife and mother… and significantly younger than my own husband. I’ve got no opinions on anyone else on that front either. Go back and check posts.

I do indeed have an interest in, and opinions regarding Safe Sport because… as my handle indicates… I have CHILDREN. First and foremost, I try and stay informed on these issues, and stay current on things like

1. Who is on the Safe Sport offender list

2. Who is on the local sex offender lists

3. whether any of the people volunteering to coach my kids’ Little League/Lacrosse/Soccer teams have significant “gossip” about them on the related community parent forums (there are many parent forums) that lead me to believe the person might be a coach who…

Is verbally abusive to the kids (there’s a lot of those)

or

Is prone to being verbally inappropriate/edgy/telling overly sexualized jokes around kids (there’s a few folks with that reputation as well)

The good news though is that for all of my kids Little League/Lacrosse/Soccer community leagues, all coaches have to take and pass a criminal background check. So I don’t have to worry about that issue.

USEF does not regulate people who coach minors in our sport this way though. All we have is Safe Sport, and peoples’ own reputations to go by. when choosing coaches for kids or ourselves. Many people, including myself, were well aware of Packy’s reputation for being “edgy” as you put it. He was indeed a VERY intelligent person. But his periodic humor was something myself, and other folks with kids coming up in this sport, would not seek out in a coach or mentor in the sport.

I’ve already made the point that I think we all need to be more aware of WHY some of these jokes, etc, can be a concern when it comes to coaches and professionals. And… one more time just to be crystal clear… I am not saying ALL people who tell bawdy jokes are guilty of any sort of abuse… but SOME people who did indeed abuse minor students DID INDEED also have a reputation for this sort of humor, and it is considered a grooming behavior.

Last… when it comes to the topic of the thread, Safe Sport and undermining it and disinformation… do you have actual names and numbers to substantiate your allegation about professionals names are popping up on the list left and right, and their lives and careers being tarnished or outright ruined?

I believe when it comes to equestrian sports, the number of names who have gone on the list, and then been removed like this is in the single digits. The most well known example is Tommy S (I don’t want to use his full name and inadvertently cause this thread to pop up on Google). His wife has spoken out about their experience… and it sounds AWFUL. But last time I checked, their business as professionals was no better or worse off than anyone else’s. Jonathan Soresi’s name also came OFF the list after his Safe Sport ruling was overturned on appeal. But he is not even participating in the sport as a professional anymore. Perhaps because he was also a victim of abuse. And he has a criminal record that almost everyone is aware of at this point. So there’s that too. Who knows - it’s a really sad case though.

Feel free to let me know if I’m ignorant and there are dozens of people beyond these two who had their names listed as banned for life by Safe Sport… then mysteriously removed from that list. But in equestrian sport, that is not the case. And in the other sports my kids participate in, their is MORE regulation and screening by community leagues and youth organizations, above and beyond such a rudimentary singular screen like Safe Sport which is all equestrian pros have to worry about… and consequently… there are far fewer coaches in those sports worried about this issue and being banned from coaching from what I can tell.

Feel free to let the post go for your own emotional well being, or to respond and educate me on the issue of MANY people getting their names unfairly listed by Safe Sport… as you state is an issue. If I’m wrong, I’d like to know. I don’t want to argue with you about someone you are grieving though.

I do reserve the right to correct the record when I am unfairly accused of comments that I actually didn’t make though. I can be snarky, and I certainly do have a terrible issue with “foot in mouth“ quite often… but I’ve said nothing about anyone’s wife, etc.

[Ghazzu]

@jennifersw

SafeSport is very flawed, and Packy was a (very competent) lawyer. Without rehashing any of it, and with no desire to become a permanent fixture on the thread, and while I did not agree with him about George Morris (and told him so to his face. He always swore he had more facts about the investigation than I did; I said the same to him in return; in the end we agreed to disagree and moved on), I did and do agree with him that SafeSport is flawed, dangerously flawed, and needs fixing. The number of people who pop up on the list, have their careers and lives interrupted and tarnished, only to be cleared & disappear from the list is appalling. If my opinion about this makes me an “underminer”, I’ll wear my badge proudly. Either fix it or get rid of it AND get rid of it UNTIL you fix it, was Packy’s opinion and is my opinion, too.

but @VirginiaHorseMom, you join in the snark and gossip all along here, the poking fun at the age of Bernie Traurig’s wife, getting sucked into @LexInVa’s BS conspiracy theory about Packy. I’ll say it one final time: SHAME ON ALL OF YOU. Get off of here and do something useful with your time. Start or join an actual advocacy group made up of people in the business; people with enough courage & self worth to stand on the front line and USE THEIR REAL NAMES, instead of lurking behind the hedgerow going by false handles. People whose work is based on solid proof and facts, not idle gossip and lies. Judging by your handle, you are somebody’s mom, so act like someone you’d like your kid to emulate! Peace be with you!

You lost me here.
Defending a deceased friend is one thing; defending abusers is entirely another.

[Denali6298]

Why is it that people always claim people went on the list and came off the list had their lives ruined but will not (cannot?) name who. The list hasn’t changed all that much since it’s inception.

Going through an investigation must be awful. Anyone who speaks about should be truthful though. In the case of TS it was conveniently left out that the attorney handled it pro bono. I think it’s disingenuous to speak to how much it costs beyond arbitration fees and leave out that many BNTs are getting a free lawyer. To act like they sunk a bunch of money into fighting the case is just ridiculous.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

As far as the powers that be go… either at USEF or for this publication…

In the end, the name came down off the wall of the stadium. And USEF has done a really great job of revamping the Safe Sport section of the website, and the Town Halls with Michael Henry. Most folks agree on that.

The Chronicle has published opinions from MANY different people on the topic of Safe Sport. And came out with the story about Jimmy Williams first. I have no idea who offered to write different opinion pieces, or who they went and solicited and opinion from. All I can say is that overall, their coverage has been good.

As far as being “proud” of “my” thread? This isn’t “my” thread. It’s just a discussion I started. Specific to the ongoing efforts of a particular group of people to overturn Safe Sport on the equestrian world. If you think this is the only thread on this topic with some controversy… you must not be aware of the Jimmy Williams or Rob Gage threads. Both of those are MUCH longer, with many more people weighing in with controversial opinions and stories to share, etc.

What I AM proud of, after participating in all three threads, is the fact that MANY people have raised their voices in our sport to let the powers that be KNOW… LOUD AND CLEAR… that we do not consider the sexual abuse and exploitation of minors and working students or other employees to be something that the sport should continue to sweep under the rug, or only whisper about… If the sport wants to survive and grow… people need to realize that mothers like me really care about this stuff. I care far more about my children being protected from predators, and having coaches and mentors who are NOT child predators… than whether or not any coach has won at an international level. Protecting my kids from abuse like that is one of the very FIRST things on my list of stuff I need to do as a mother. And I REALLY resent people who want to make it HARDER for me to do that, by getting rid of Safe Sport…

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@Denali6298

Why is it that people always claim people went on the list and came off the list had their lives ruined but will not (cannot?) name who. The list hasn’t changed all that much since it’s inception.

Going through an investigation must be awful. Anyone who speaks about should be truthful though. In the case of TS it was conveniently left out that the attorney handled it pro bono. I think it’s disingenuous to speak to how much it costs beyond arbitration fees and leave out that many BNTs are getting a free lawyer. To act like they sunk a bunch of money into fighting the case is just ridiculous.

Truth.

I’m unsure who legally represented GM for the duration of his investigation and during the appeal. But he lost. And most reasonable people are not breaking out the tiny violins regarding his legal fees.

Also… didn’t Michael Henry say something about Safe Sport waving arbitration fees, or helping out with them for people who wish to appeal but can’t afford the fees? And isn’t there something about Safe Sport having to pick up the legal tab for cases that are overturned once they go to arbitration? I might have that last bit wrong, but I seem to recollect that the loser picks up the legal fees…

It’s interesting to note the longer these threads go on, how PERVASIVE misinformation about Safe Sport seems to be.

[Denali6298]

@Virginia Horse Mom

Truth.

I’m unsure who legally represented GM for the duration of his investigation and during the appeal. But he lost. And most reasonable people are not breaking out the tiny violins regarding his legal fees.

Also… didn’t Michael Henry say something about Safe Sport waving arbitration fees, or helping out with them for people who wish to appeal but can’t afford the fees? And isn’t there something about Safe Sport having to pick up the legal tab for cases that are overturned once they go to arbitration? I might have that last bit wrong, but I seem to recollect that the loser picks up the legal fees…

It’s interesting to note the longer these threads go on, how PERVASIVE misinformation about Safe Sport seems to be.

I would be very surprised if GHM has to pay the fees himself.

You are remembering correctly. They have a process for hardship and Safe Sport pays the costs of arbitration if it’s turned over.

[atl_hunter]

@FlaxenChestnut

Wow. This took a nasty turn. I think I agree with the comment above that the Mods might want to take a look at some of the speculative accusations here. Despite any publicly available information, I fail to see how someone’s financial situation, or any financial decisions made by family members, has any bearing on a discussion of SafeSport. And speculating on cause of death, without access to, or knowledge of medical records or coroner reports is not only in poor taste, but harmful, IMHO.

The mods won’t shut this down, just as they let other wildly speculative threads go on for thousands of posts before finally shutting them down (Barisone, for example).

One thing for everyone to keep in mind is that these threads are MONETIZED. What does that mean? COTH makes money off the banner adds that flank the content.So it is to their benefit to allow this to go on and to have their brand evolve into the Daily Mail or the National Enquirer. It’s a business and they are making money. Good for them!

I would even suggest that they like to help stir the pot a bit knowing that they will drive impassioned players like Denali and Virginia Horse Mom, who clearly have the bandwidth to spend the hours needed per day to create the content that continues to drive lurkers back. They are all playing their roles quite well! COTH posts an article with a group that they know is polarizing, and then BAM, like clockwork VHM takes the bait, posts a thread, and then Denali and friends chime in, gang up and it’s game on! It’s like a slot machine for COTH!! Interesting business model but this thread and others proves it works for them. They will edit out a profanity but choose to leave very interesting speculative remarks. And we all know that VHM and gang love a good speculation!

Keep putting your quarters in the slots, my friends! One thing is clear - it’s the house who always wins, regardless of what is right or wrong!

Regardless of your stance, you are all being played! But don’t hate the player - hate the game!

[MHM]

@Keep it Simple

Bernie was a phenomenal hunter rider and a very successful Grand Prix jumper rider representing the US for many years. He rode Gozzi in the late 70’s and was based out of Pennsylvania until he moved to the West coast, I think late 70’s early 80’s. He rode with/for Frank Chapot and Ronnie Beard early in his career. He also won both the Medal and the Maclay.

Yes, of course. I thought his accomplishments in the H/J/E field were common knowledge, particularly here on the H/J board, which is why I did not mention them. His early success as an eventer at the top level and his later success in dressage were both impressive. He had more success in all three disciplines than most people have in just one. Which is irrelevant to the topic at hand, but still an interesting side note.

Jennifersw, I don’t know you and I did not know your friend, but I am very sorry for your loss.

[FlaxenChestnut]

@atl_hunter I don’t think this thread should be shut down. I think discussions around Safe Sport are worthwhile. However, I do think certain posts cross lines (when they are unfounded or turn into personal attacks) and should be moderated.

(The Barisone threads, on the other hand, seem to have been overwhelmingly littered with wild speculation and mud slinging. I always cringe when I see threads like that spiral downward for pages on end before they are shut down.)

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Aaahhhh… I was waiting for you to show atl hunter.

For those who don’t know, atl hunter has some sort of association/friendship with key Athletes for Equity people. In the past, when myself and others have shared PUBLIC STATEMENTS made by Dianne Carney and Bonnie Navin regarding Safe Sport topics on any of the three major Safe Sport related threads in the Chronicle Forums, atl hunter has gotten VERY upset.

Admittedly, the statements from these industry “professionals” regarding Safe Sport that I’ve chosen to copy, past and share are NOT particularly good publicity for these folks. At least not in the eyes of clients with children who ride.

But instead of focusing on the issue of WHY industry professionals are dedicating themselves to defending well known fellow professionals who have been accused of abusing children, investigated, and then banned by Safe Sport…

posters like atl hunter want to make it all about myself or Denali. And now the Chronicle engaging in some sort of click bait strategy.

I guess what atl hunter really wants is for people who have been rumored to have molested children for DECADES in many cases (Yes… there were rumors for DECADES about GM, RG, and JW)… to never actually be outright accused, for these rumors to never really be investigated, for victims to never really be heard, and for the general public who doesn’t know enough to know the rumors to never catch on…

So that they all can continue to pretend it never happened and continue to pay “lawn gnomes for hire” for clinics. Without dealing with the uncomfortable issue that said “lawn gnome” sexually assaulted vulnerable children.

If that’s not quite fair… by all means… speak up atl hunter. Because I guess it is possible you just want to defend the defenderz of the lawn gnome. Otherwise known as Athletes for Equity. And when folks such as myself share the objectively RIDICULOUS and INACCURATE public statements made by the #1 Lawn Gnome Defender…

well…

It’s kind of hard to continue defending her.

Lash out again at myself, Denali, and now the Chronicle itself for the umpteenth time if that helps you come to terms with this. Or… ignore us.

Or… try and take a moment and consider that maybe there is a serious problem in the sport, and people rallying around and supporting child molesters just because they are really popular is frankly… GROTESQUE.

[Denali6298]

@atl_hunter

The mods won’t shut this down, just as they let other wildly speculative threads go on for thousands of posts before finally shutting them down (Barisone, for example).

One thing for everyone to keep in mind is that these threads are MONETIZED. What does that mean? COTH makes money off the banner adds that flank the content.So it is to their benefit to allow this to go on and to have their brand evolve into the Daily Mail or the National Enquirer. It’s a business and they are making money. Good for them!

I would even suggest that they like to help stir the pot a bit knowing that they will drive impassioned players like Denali and Virginia Horse Mom, who clearly have the bandwidth to spend the hours needed per day to create the content that continues to drive lurkers back. They are all playing their roles quite well! COTH posts an article with a group that they know is polarizing, and then BAM, like clockwork VHM takes the bait, posts a thread, and then Denali and friends chime in, gang up and it’s game on! It’s like a slot machine for COTH!! Interesting business model but this thread and others proves it works for them. They will edit out a profanity but choose to leave very interesting speculative remarks. And we all know that VHM and gang love a good speculation!

Keep putting your quarters in the slots, my friends! One thing is clear - it’s the house who always wins, regardless of what is right or wrong!

Regardless of your stance, you are all being played! But don’t hate the player - hate the game!

Well yes, I have opinions about Safe Sport and yes I can multi-task and yes I have lots of time now since my class is on a two week hold due to some people needing to quarantine and I’m living in a hotel.

Anyway… atl_hunter is it really necessary to randomly jump in on these threads and chastise people for not doing as you do? You routinely lash out anytime someone posts a thread about the H/J world that doesn’t sing it’s praises. So who is being played? I don’t think it’s us who are discussing a topic that has impacted many of us personally.

I do believe atl_hunter it is you being played, since it has always been too hard for you to stomach reading about the seedy underbelly of the horse world and specifically the H/J community. You reject any negative idea when applied to your discipline. It’s okay to put the koolaide down, remove the rose colored glasses, and still love your sport.

[Analternateperspecti]

Has it ever actually occurred to you that people whose names came on and came off the list DONT want to stand up and shout it out, because, besides the fact they were found “not guilty” by SS dubious standards, they still experienced the shame of being put out on a pedestal for people like you to judge them? No matter how much they don’t care about you or your opinion, it’s still a very hard circumstance.

As someone else here has said for those of you who wish to speculate and smear, put your real name on here. Standby your convictions

I had close interaction with someone on this list for a period of time, and yes this is an alter because none of us close to the situation have any wish to reopen a very painful timeframe. Despite what I just said about revealing your own name, you have no idea the stress and shame and cost it actually is when you did nothing wrong and safe sport doesn’t give a toss about how long it takes for you to clear it. I can quickly think of six people who came on and off that list in the last year in equestrian sports And from what I understand gymnastics track and several other sports are way worse… And NONE of them had committed any offense worthy of SS attention yet they still languished in the list for months until SS got their woefully underfunded, understaffed, and misguided prejudices around to turning their attention to the case

You can all drink the coolaid but it’s well known for those who have gone through it that what SS puts out there as their procedures are quite different from the reality. Have any of you ever been part of an organization that spins the message to the public vs the reality behind the scenes? Be honest with yourselves.

To anyone here with a rational thought in their head, it is very very possible to have two separate opinions on this, the desire to protect minors and at risk people but also feel that there are many improvements that could be made to this process. You’re wasting your time here with a lot of these keyboard warriors. They have apparently endless amounts of time and will shout louder than you so close the thread and go do something worthwhile with your family and your horses.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@mroades

So…I’ve been reading a book about Cambridge Analytica. It used something called just -world hypothesis. "This is a cognitive bias where some people rely on a presumption of a fair world: the world is a fair place where ‘bad things happen for a reason’ or will be offset by some sort of ‘moral balancing’ in the universe. We found that people who displayed the JWH were, for example, more prone to victim-blaming in hypothetical scenarios of sexual assault. If the world is fair, then random bad things should not happen to innocent people, and therefore must have been a fault in the victim’s behavior. Finding ways to blame victims is psychologically prophylactic for some people because it helps them cope with anxiety induced by uncontrollable environmental threats while maintaining a comforting view that the world would still be fair to them."

Rather than continuing on with unfortunate back and forth exchanges with people who are firmly on the opposite side of Safe Sport issues, I thought I would take a minute to go back, and bring up THIS post again.

It was really insightful.

Maybe those of you who are very angry at myself, Denali, LexinVa, LadyJ or others who have participated in this thread, should instead pause and consider this post a bit.

Perhaps those of you who are very intent of defending the people who have very publicly chosen to go out and defend and raise money on behalf of folks who have been accused of child abuse, had these accusations investigated, and been found guilty by a preponderance of the evidence standard…

maybe just pause and think about it all just a bit more.

I have empathy for people who are struggling because longtime friends have gotten caught up in this whole situation over the last two years, and it is all very sad and ugly. And I have empathy for people who are grieving the deaths of friends who have passed away.

But I also have empathy for the victims of abuse both past and present, who are part of the sport. The fact of the matter is, many of the ISWG people have engaged in some remarkable victim blaming.

Anyway, I thought it worthwhile to bring up this comment again. Right now. It’s a rather thought provoking comment.

[Denali6298]

@Analternateperspective

Has it ever actually occurred to you that people whose names came on and came off the list DONT want to stand up and shout it out, because, besides the fact they were found “not guilty” by SS dubious standards, they still experienced the shame of being put out on a pedestal for people like you to judge them? No matter how much they don’t care about you or your opinion, it’s still a very hard circumstance.

As someone else here has said for those of you who wish to speculate and smear, put your real name on here. Standby your convictions

I had close interaction with someone on this list for a period of time, and yes this is an alter because none of us close to the situation have any wish to reopen a very painful timeframe. Despite what I just said about revealing your own name, you have no idea the stress and shame and cost it actually is when you did nothing wrong and safe sport doesn’t give a toss about how long it takes for you to clear it. I can quickly think of six people who came on and off that list in the last year in equestrian sports And from what I understand gymnastics track and several other sports are way worse… And NONE of them had committed any offense worthy of SS attention yet they still languished in the list for months until SS got their woefully underfunded, understaffed, and misguided prejudices around to turning their attention to the case

You can all drink the coolaid but it’s well known for those who have gone through it that what SS puts out there as their procedures are quite different from the reality. Have any of you ever been part of an organization that spins the message to the public vs the reality behind the scenes? Be honest with yourselves.

To anyone here with a rational thought in their head, it is very very possible to have two separate opinions on this, the desire to protect minors and at risk people but also feel that there are many improvements that could be made to this process. You’re wasting your time here with a lot of these keyboard warriors. They have apparently endless amounts of time and will shout louder than you so close the thread and go do something worthwhile with your family and your horses.

So it’s cool to use an alter so long as you agree with AFE? Sorry, but you cannot condemn people for using screen names and then not at the very least use yours.

On the flip side, do you know what parents go through when they find out their friend, coworker, and occasional baby sitter gets consecutive sentences to prison for child pornography and sexual molestation of multiple children from an infant up to seven years old? The case was built after the person moved involving no one from the previous area. Do you have any idea what that is like for them? I do. That dirt bag is eligible for parole in 110 years and the parents I spoke about are my friends. Not sentenced to 110 years, eligible for parole.

Further more, most people don’t just randomly get caught up in things that Safe Sport deals with. I’m pretty sure you are talking about the only known case that got dropped. Welcome to the actual world where people need to watch their behavior, be aware of their surroundings and act like a professional 100% of the time at work. It’s not hard to apologize if someone is offended and professionals should act in a manner where someone can say they are offended.

I’m not sure what else to say beyond welcome to having an HR department and not being able to do or say whatever you want without consequences. It’s not hard to avoid accusations like these. Millions do it every day.