Pessoa style lungeing rigs your honest complete thoughts.

[OTTB2]

I feel like i’m walking into a minefield here but hey its horses right? I have been riding for about 7 years and just recently bought a really nice OTTB prospect last year. Before I bought him he had a year in a felid to chill and the previous honor decided she didn’t really want to go through with training after-all and sold him. Long story short a freak injury which has healed fully with no restrictions had him laid up for a few months and now we are going through the process of legging him up again and getting him 2 where he was before he was injured doing 2’6 courses and moving up very well to a goal of 3’0-3’3 maybe higher if he shows he can do it. A friend suggested a pessoa style system and I had mixed thoughts.

-I really don’t like gadgets and would never crank down on a horse with any lungeing system or other aid for that matter. But if they are used properly and the horse shows a positive improvement and not just cranking down I am fine with them. Im a big believer in natural horsemanship and spend lots of time working with ground work.

-But I have seen this system work well for many horses who use it once maybe twice a week on a loose setting for 10-15 min so they get a good workout a guess you could call it. SO my question is what are you honest thoughts on a system like this for my situation. My intended use would be once every week or every other week for 10-15 to help my horse along with getting him back up and finding his balance again. I want to hear your true and honest thoughts. Also no way i’m spending 200 bucks for some rope and a few pulleys who has made these before and who has had good luck?

Thanks in advance!

[bamboopole]

The ropes? We love them. Necco himself taught me how to use them (and not use them). When used correctly, they create a very flexible horse.

[OTTB2]

Yes sorry just noticed the title is not really fitting… Can you go through what correctly really is like how you start a horse in the system and get them accustomed.

[Winding_Down]

I use the pessoa rig and love it. Keep it loose and it really does work much better in getting the horse moving from behind in comparison to side reins and Vienna reins. My second favorite is Vienna but the pessoa really is clever with the strap behind the butt, nudging the horse if he flips his head up.

[Xanthoria]

I did a comparison of some of the various lungeing gadgets for my own edification once, and looking at the physics of them you can see that the only one that encourages a horse’s head forward and round on the lunge is the chambon.

Pessoa, Vienna, bungies etc only encourage downward motion ie the bit describes a fixed arc and there’s pressure on the bars, and maybe poll. If you can’t engage a horse’s butt without a butt strap as seen on the Pessoa by using your voice and whip, take some lunge lessons to help (or create a simple butt strap if you prefer: they’re not evil alone, but horses do get used to them and tune them out, then you’re back to needing to use other aids anyway)

A chambon etc works by exerting gentle pressure over the poll and on the bit if the horse raises its head too high. Once the horse stretches, the chambon becomes loose. And they can stretch down and out, not just down.

The Pessoa also nags at the horse’s mouth, as every stride the ropes get pulled by the action of the horse’s legs, and in my experience (I used one for a few months, weekly) the horses didn’t improve.

That’s my $0.02! :yes:

ETA: found an article that supports this: http://www.sustainabledressage.net/tack/gadgets.php

[OTTB2]

Just for understanding/ conversation sake what is the difference between the chambon and say a standing or running martingale? Is it where the pressure is applied? Im having trouble understanding how the chambon functions I see that it is like a standing martingale attachment wise but applies the forces in a different direction?

[Xanthoria]

Martingales are generally corrective devices for use when ridden (not lungeing) and are limiting devices, designed to prevent the head going too far up beyond a neutral position and whacking the riders face. They only work in extremis - when the ish is hitting the fan (unless they’re incorrectly adjusted too tightly)

(Limiting devices that that stop heads going too low, conversely, would be things like daisy reins, overchecks etc)

Lungeing gadgets are devices that supposedly improve head position/musculature by pulling them downwards or only allowing them to travel up or down along a prescribed arc (side reins) where most horses will get tired and drop their heads pretty quickly.

A chambon is different: used correctly it puts pressure on the mouth and poll when the horse gets high headed and releases when they stretch down and out. It’s like a lungeing martingale in a way.

[copper1]

I like the Pessoa system and it has really helped horses that are having a hard time understanding the concept of moving up from behind to round their back. I use it as a reminder to some older guys or remedial types! My biggest objection is the price: expensive when one can make it themselves from stuff around the barn!

[17handponyrider]

I had great results using a Pessoa rig. My horse’s top line improved tremendously and this allowed him to carry me better. I did feel a bit bitter to pay some ungodly sum for a bit of clothes line and pullies. But the results are worth the price. I never had a problem with the nagging on his mouth. I wonder if the one person had it set up correctly. I do know one horse that it did not help, so I would borrow before buying.

[Small_Change]

For what it’s worth, there’s also a company that sells a copy of the Pessoa rig, but without a surcingle, for quite a lot less than the original rig goes for. I just can’t remember who sells it…

[DMK]

schneiders. however it does run a bit small. I think you would be fine up to 16’1, maybe 16’2 (when you have it adjusted for long and low and just starting out). I’ve used it on my very stout 15’3 horse and there wasn’t a ton of spare line. Two caveats - I start out very loose - loose enough that it only bumps them when they are outside of where their natural balance point is and I use these great little elastic rein extenders. They were some half baked idea of a tack store gadget to attach to reins so beginners couldn’t pull on reins. In that regard I think they are fairly useless, but as something to attach to a solid line like a pessoa rig, they are great. But that also gives me another 2.5" of length

[OTTB2]

Can someone give me an idea of what the different positions are. e.g. like to the D-ring of the surcingle or the points along the side. Our barn has a surcingle that is “public use” that fits my horse great so I don’t have to buy one.

[babecakes]

[QUOTE=OTTB_;8457631]
Yes sorry just noticed the title is not really fitting… Can you go through what correctly really is like how you start a horse in the system and get them accustomed.[/QUOTE]

You can edit your title by going back to the first post and clicking on advanced.

[ToTheNines]

I use it once or twice a week on mine. In a nice big round pen with good footing.

I do not use a bridle – I attach the snaps to the side rings of the halter. I also never use it very tight. I start with it loose, and sometimes I might shorten it an inch or two, 2/3 through. I never do more than 25 minutes with lots of walking and a good warm up at trot. I never use it with the goal of working them down to ride, etc. I rarely ride them after in fact. I think of it as a substitute for really good flatwork, without the interference of a rider.

Mine are low level hunters, so I am looking for rhythm, balance, and looseness.

The adjustment depends on the horse. In general, starting out, I adjust so it fits the natural head position at a standstill, maybe tighten an inch if that much, then warm up a bit, and maybe adjust from there. I certainly DON’T crank it in to achieve some kind of desired “frame” – the beauty of the Pessoa is that they learn to figure it out for themselves. I can see mine shifting to find a balance – you want to let them do that. In general, I want to see the stomach muscle working, as well as that neck muscle right in front of the withers. And I want to see some loosening of the back behind the saddle area. It takes time to develop all this, so don’t try to force it. Your job is to make it relaxing and urge them to find a rhythm, they need to learn to do the rest.

For a green horse, I would not use it until they were good in the round pen. Familiar with voice commands, use of the lunge whip, how to turn around, etc. As indicated above, they need to be relaxed, so if one were too fresh for the Pessoa, I doubt I would use it. I had a young one that wanted to run from it a bit, so I spent a lot of time teaching him to walk around in it.

[Jumper_Princess1988]

My TB was injured in a paddock accident a while back and needed surgery/stall rest to recover. He lost what little top line he had to begin with (he was a rescue when I first got him, with a body score of 2) so his surgeons recommended the Pessoa system as a way for him to build up muscle before we began tack walking.

The trick with the system is to not abuse it. Adjust it properly (not too tight, not too floppy), work on good footing and on as big of a circle as possible, and keep your sessions short. I think we started off with five minute sessions a day, and gradually worked up to 15-20 min sessions, five days a week. My trainer at the time was pretty useless, quite frankly, so I had to really rely on the surgeons and his daily vet for advice when to work him harder. Fortunately they were thrilled with his progress over the eight weeks we lunged him. I also switched out his bit - I generally ride in a French link snaffle, but lunged him in a rubber mullen bit. He has very soft, responsive mouth…like butter!

We have since moved to a dressage barn and my new trainer can’t ride for a bit due to advanced pregnancy…she will long line him for a tune up, and when my work schedule gets crazy, she’ll work with him 2-3 times a week. It’s another way to build top line, and doesn’t require a Pessoa system. Long lining is an art form, and I’m not quite sure it’s something you should try if you’re not familiar with it already…but if you can have someone help you the first few times, it’s another option for you to consider.

I actually used the “balanced lunging system” that Dover sells, and I think all the ropes, surcingle, etc you need (other than a lunge line and whip) comes as a set - it cost just over $100.

It’s definitely with spending the time to make sure your pony develops the right muscles…good luck!

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I’ve seen them work for some…but honestly, never thought it was worth the money. I’ve found a de gogue most useful…it can also be easily converted to a chambon. It encourages a very good stretch and working accross their back…akin to doing a lot of long and low. I think the Pesso rig might do more to collect them…but since I’m more often just looking to work them long and low while lunging…I’ve personally reached for a De Gogue. That said… a lunging tool is only as good as the handler…you have to know how to have your horse working correctly. I’m also very careful to not work them for as long as they can get sore.

http://www.doversaddlery.com/de-gogue/p/X1-30059/?ids=hbq1zqo34xn1iibp50yk3w3z

ETA: if it is balance that I want to work on…I’ll long line a horse. That is also extremely effective when building up a horse or schooling new things…also gets you off the circle! Also adding cavaletti helps a ton too.

[Jleegriffith]

I really love it especially for some of the tb’s that I have gotten in that are super tough in the mouths and tight over the back. It allows them to loosen and learn to use their parts correctly. I typically start in side reins, then Vienna reins and then the pessoa because the pessoa can really work them so you don’t just want to start until they have a bit of an idea of softening into the bridle. I have also seen it totally transform horses with bad strung out canters…I had a horse that just couldn’t canter in balance and voila pessoa system really did wonders for him.

I like it this time of years when the horses are fresh and I am trying to work them but don’t always have good turnout.

[fordtraktor]

I am not a fan of longeing in this or other gadgets. I think they tend to teach horses to go behind the contact in a way that is very hard to correct. Or – maybe not hard, but takes longer than doing the job right to start with. I’d rather just teach them to give on their backs where I can offer a release myself at the right time.

[SendenHorse]

hate it.

I don’t like gadgets, but i’m primarily a dressage rider.

I like balancing reins for longing. I want to avoid downward/backward acting reins of any sort.

http://ultimatesidereins.com/images/ultimate_side_reins.png

[Ready_To_Riot]

One of the best trainers I’ve ever ridden with used one. If had one for years before I started training with her, but developed a full opinion on the matter after she approved. Some of her horses have competed for the USA