Piaffe... How to teach.

Hello again. Another post from the H/J rider.

I have a very balanced and fancy dressage type gelding. I use him for H/J because he is one of those can do anything horses. He has a lot of dressage basics and even some fancier moves (ie. tempi changes). I love flatwork and have taught my horse a lot of it as I don’t really have the money to show. I don’t think a horse can ever learn too much of it.

I was at a dressage barn a few years ago with a very accomplished Prix St. George rider and trainer. I came one day and she came running out asking me if I knew what my horse had done. I was a little concerned thinking he had caused some trouble since he is a bit of a comic. She went on to explain that she had seen my horse doing Piaffe in the field on his own. I was quite shocked and excited as this is probably my favorite dressage move out there.

My question is, how do I teach this? For those of you who have jumping experience, would the commands for it interfere with any of the commands I currently use for jumping (not too different I don’t think)? I have done all the training on him thus far and he and I seem to work really well together and I think this would definitely be a fun addition.

To do it correctly - it would probably take you about 10 years. How old is he now ?

Try this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnnQt2mjPiQ

[QUOTE=Equibrit;4197733]
To do it correctly - it would probably take you about 10 years. How old is he now ?[/QUOTE]

In no way am I implying this is an easy thing to do. I realize that he will probably never master it. It would just give us something to work on for a while. If not how to teach it completely how can I get the basics for it started? I have been told it is a form of collection. Would I just start to very gradually collect?

Hmmmmm. A horse doing piaffe in the field is usually very different than a horse doing it under a rider. On their own, horses might often “trot in place”, usually at a fence line. They usually DO NOT use their topline muscles to support this. An exception might be a particularly razzed up horse whose forward moving trot was blocked by say, another horse or a dog or a goat and he piaffed for a few steps and then trotted on. Under a rider, a horse has to bend his hocks and sit down behind and lighten the forehand while carrying the rider, which is piaffe and DOES use the topline muscles. This takes ALOT of strength on the horse’s part to do correctly, and is akin to being as fit as a body builder. It also takes ALOT of coordination, looseness and feel on the rider’s behalf or else you interfere with your horse.

You can get your horse to trot in place under saddle, but that is not piaffe. Since it is a strenous exercise and if done incorrectly can really work all the wrong muscles in your horse and cause muscle strains and tension, I’d suggest not even bothering with it unless you are working with an Intermediate II or Grand Prix rider, which is where the movements are tested. If ridden incorrectly, it really makes for a righteously unhappy horse!

My two cents!

I’ve watched a trainer teach a lot of horses to Piaffe, over the course of many years, and it’s not like there’s just a certain cue and the horse figures it out. Literally I watched a horse spend three years developing it. It’s layers and layers of dressage training. It’s not explainable, any more than you could teach someone and their horse to jump five feet when they’d never jumped ever before. First they’d need conditioning, and ground poles, and cross rails and learning two point and how to release and finding their distance and a million other things that seem easy after you’ve spent years learning them.

experience counts!

Find an experienced rider/ trainer to train him:yes: and then teach you; It will save you a lot of time in the long run:yes:.

Some people teach the horse to prance up and down as a circus trick. There are many people eager to teach that and they will be eager to take your check.

A dressage piaffe starts with very early training at training level and is developed slowly over time out of very ordinary things like half halts and transitions.

I would suggest not teaching your jumper to piaffe. Jumping is plenty of work itself.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I think what people are trying to tell you here, is that you don’t just start to teach piaffe.

Piaffe is an extension of all the other things a horse learns as he progresses through the levels.

If you want to teach him to piaffe, get a dressage instructor and learn all the training level movements. Then the first level movements. Etc. If you are a super good rider, and with a very good instructor, you might be able to start playing around with “half-steps” in a few years.

:lol: You did ask the question how to I teach my horse to jump a 6 feet jump :lol: While may be it seems straight forward and takes only a second, as a jumper you know that it’ll take time and talent to jump it.

but it could be an interesting conversation how people started their horses on half steps?

Piaffe and passage are taught by first getting a “half steps” and yes, you can start to teach your horse half steps as early as at age 4. With such young horses you “boil milk” and let go as soon as you feel milk is overflowing. Be careful, if you don’t have experience, you might get hurt by a young horse while “boiling milk”. While piaffe and passage has quite strict rules, half steps are generally something that resembles either one. Getting from half steps to real piaffe and passage is a huge deal in itself. Getting from half steps in turn out to half steps in arena is a huge deal. Getting from half steps that are taught on the ground to half steps that can be done under the saddle on a queue is another huge deal. I’ll repeat that please be very careful, it’s easy to get hurt teaching half steps.

Another way is to complete the prerequisite work:

*Clear transitions: down and up transitions should be very clear and on the bit and lowering the hunches in those transitions.

*Clear transitions with in the gait: extended trot to collected trot and work on the 2-3 steps of those transitions, since this is where the half steps live.

*Obedient canter/walk transitions in self carriage focusing on loading of the hunches = to develop hind end muscles + abs.

  • Marching walk pirouettes with marching hind legs on the spot = to explain the idea of marching on the spot.

  • Loaded, correct Rein Back with correct loading of the hunches = to explain the correct loading of the hunches.

If you have those prerequisites, you can start on the actual exercise of teaching half steps. Start on collective walk on the long side and at E do a walk pirouette with the hind legs clear picking up and down in the even rhythm almost on the spot = on the last step of the walk pirouette ask for the very collected trot and think “rein Back” to boil milk for 10 steps. After 10 steps ask for the Halt/Rein Back then trot out of it in very collected trot and keep boiling milk. How to boil milk? With gentle touch, minimum aids and feeling! That’s how I was taught.

Some horses can get half steps in weeks from that. Others will take years. The real difficulty if teaching half steps is a danger of being hurt if you don’t know how to teach half steps. When milk over-boils it’s almost impossible to fix it and horse starts to be more and more dangerous with every over-boiling of milk.

PS: you say “very accomplished Prix St. George rider and trainer” = remeber there are many PSG riders and trainers who have no clue how to teach half steps :wink:

Don’t know how accomplished the trainer is, but I have never seen a horse piaffe on his own in the field. A horse of course can prance or jig on the spot in the field. Maybe she is just joking.

For goodness sakes, please don’t teach the horse to piaffe. If you have to ask how to do it, or how to teach, please don’t do it. It is not that you are not allowed to ask, but it means you have no idea what it means. I personally know how to ask for piaffe, but only on a horse that knows how to do it. I wouldn’t know how to teach a horse, without a GP level trainer eagle eyeing my every move, and most likely she will not suggest that I even try. With my huge limitation, at least I know I should not teach a horse how to piaffe. :slight_smile:

Hey, I think people are being a little too DQish about this. You can teach a 3-4 year old to start to piaffe and have a really good one in a few months. And no, its not forced and your not going to ruin your horse if you start this early. Just make sure your horse is always happy and enjoying what you are trying to teach. Obviously depends on the horses talent for it too, but most horses can do it and it is really not that hard if you start in hand and reward your horse lots with sugar cubes. I really like the Arthur Kottas videos on www.dressagetrainingonline.com, they are close to how I train piaffe, although I reward a lot more- and of course use sugar cubes! :slight_smile:
Here is another video, although I like Arthur Kottas’s better, this guy is a little too aggressive and does not reward enough in my opinion, and this is a VERY talented horse:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUoKtanhOXM

Another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H19UwQx-NU

Just reward for little hints of piaffe and quickly you will have several steps. Its not a huge deal, it does not take 10 years to teach (you can keep improving on it for 10 years though) your horse does not have to be able to collect under saddle first or know how to half-pass or anythin, and YES I have seen horses piaffe out in pasture (sometimes in the horse trailer too when a big truck comes up behind you! ). Just chill and make it fun and reward lots! Lots of sugar! And show those DQs how its done!

CLFPP,

I really enjoyed those videos. But I also noticed another one on "How to teach Piaffe. Here it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnnQt2mjPiQ&feature=related

That’s all well and good, but how do you suggest this neophyte recognizes a good response as opposed crap ?

Monkeys and razorblades !

I concur whole heartedly: shaved monkeys are not as cute as furry monkeys. But maybe thats a discussion for another thread.

TAKTMAW

Amazing. A horse actually piaffe in the field and he actually can piaffe without collection. What do I know. They should start asking for piaffe in intro, why the wait. Come to think about it… while out on a hack one time, my horse piaffed the whole two hours. Goodness that was fun… and he was very round the whole time too… well I guess if I am to choose between piaffing and bolting home, I can at least keep him in a piaffe. hahahaha (Some very ignorant lady commented to me “wow he is the most beautiful horse I have ever seen”. I should have sold him as a schoolmaster then right there.) And one time in a parade, my horse did two Levades when we were to cross some railroad tracks. Everyone was very impressed. One time when I was in the arena and it started to hail, he did a capriole, I bailed… I mean got off… in a very elegant manner… I thought such advanced movement should be done from the ground, like they do in theee classical style.

Hm. Carol Lavel, who rode Gifted in the Olympics, said she used to teach horses to piaffe in hand when they were 5, because someone else had convinced her to, and after some time, decided not to, because it did nothing to help any later work.