I’m curious what people think of this. Personally, living in the city they want to return the dog to I am not a fan…
The actual owner of this dog may be very capable of keeping the dog in an appropriate yard and acting as a good member of society.
My dog was almost killed by a pit bull that thought she was a rabbit.
That is just what prey drive in any dog means, some times it will attack something smallish that catches it’s eye.
Some breeds are worse than others about that, some are so strong they are more deadly if they attack.
The problem there is not the dog so much as the one on the other end of the leash, that is not careful enough, knowing what kind of dog it has and keeps it extremely well trained, under control and when necessary, muzzled.
Any one that has a dog with high prey drive just needs to recognize their dog may do the same and take care it doesn’t happen.
Remember, that same prey drive may happen toward’s a little kid playing on the floor, with the same horrible results.
Little kids and dogs really have a right to be safe from being attacked just by being small and existing.
[QUOTE=Marshfield;7783606]
The actual owner of this dog may be very capable of keeping the dog in an appropriate yard and acting as a good member of society.[/QUOTE]
I sure hope so- I guess the fact that this all started with the dog going missing makes me worried about the level of control. I guess everyone learns lessons though.
And BTW- I should not have put pitbull in the title I would feel the same about a chow, dalmatian or other breed.
Since the dog was not in the hands of the guardian, I personally believe the dog should be returned to said guardian. The dog was in the hands of a 16 yo. I also always have to wonder more about the situation…
The killer should be euthanized. If the city wanted to be marginally less irresponsible, they should designate the thing dangerous and force the owners who supposedly lost it to come up with the insurance, fencing, etc., required by the dangerous dog laws. But honestly, euth it. It was an appalling attack. And anyone who thinks it’s “just” something that larger, predatory dogs do to smaller, weaker dogs (and call them prey) is kidding themselves. That pit is wired wrong and it could easily turn that hyper-aggression onto a person.
A small dog sitting on its owner’s lap isn’t exhibiting “prey” behaviors and could not create “prey drive” in a normal dog. There have been any number of people straining for an excuse for this attack, but the truth is, the circumstances are not there to explain it away. The pit was with someone who liked it and not being hurt and urged onto the dog, who was smaller and weaker and didn’t even get a chance to escape, let alone fight back.
I’ve seen a lot of dogs act oddly towards small dogs that have been picked up/ put in laps. The dogs could clearly see that the small dog was a dog when it was on the ground, but once it was up in the air, apparently not.
I’m not sure if the dogs think it’s some kind of toy the person is holding? and try to grab the “toy”? Even my loves-little-dogs dog is fascinated by the sight of someone holding a small dog and if you watch carefully you’ll see why. Usually the small-dog owner sees the big dog, grabs their little dog and moves the little around in sudden swooping motions just like someone trying to attract a dog to play with a toy. Not surprisingly a lot of dogs who would never attack a small dog on the ground go after the flying “toy”.
anyway, it should it be pretty easy to test this particular pitbull for dog and human aggression and make their decision based on that.
[QUOTE=Marshfield;7783606]
The actual owner of this dog may be very capable of keeping the dog in an appropriate yard and acting as a good member of society.[/QUOTE]
This is true. High prey drive can occur in any dog not just pit bulls. But owners of this kind of dog need to be especially vigilant.
I have a pit bull and a lab/plott hound mix.
A year ago, my lab mix got into a fight with the neighbor’s dog when the neighbor’s dog came onto my property.
While Scarlett was outside at the time, she did not get involved in the fight…and she is a pit bull.
There are a lot of people on this board who would kill all pit bulls…at least one has posted on this thread. However, not all pit bulls are bad. And not all bad dogs are pit bulls.
Sherman is a lab/plott hound mix. He does not like other male dogs. However, he lives peacefully with two cats and Scarlett with no problems. Another neighbor’s cat came into our fenced yard with Sherman outside. He did not go after the cat (although he did bark at it). It CAN be done although many people are incapable of seeing that.
I’m not sure that relocating the dog back to Colorado is in the best interest of the dog. The current state law concerning a “dangerous dog” would require that this dog be killed for causing serious bodily injury to another domestic animal. Fortunately for this dog, his aggressive action was not in the state of Colorado. The article is unclear as to how the dog ended up in Oregon. If the dog was stolen, taken to Oregon, attacked the poor little dog, it seems that the owner was not responsible for that incident and should be able to have his/her dog back. It’s certainly a liability for the owner to have that dog in Colorado, as the statute calls for some pretty stiff criminal penalties if your dog harms a person or domestic animal.
[QUOTE=vacation1;7783968]
A small dog sitting on its owner’s lap isn’t exhibiting “prey” behaviors and could not create “prey drive” in a normal dog.[/QUOTE]
Ummm…I didn’t see ANYWHERE in the article that this small dog was sitting on its owner’s lap. Where did you find this little fact? Or is this just part of your “all pitbulls need to be euthanized” rhetoric?
However, we’re not talking about all pit bulls here, we’re talking about one that killed another dog. That doesn’t put it high on my “good dog” list. If it hadn’t killed another dog, it could make that list.
The whole story is a little off. Not sure that I buy the idea that the first owners are so much better than the 16 year old it was with. If the dog got loose & ran away, then no they don’t have my vote as good owners. IF the dog was stolen, then maybe they were OK owners, but that leads me to ask what the dog was doing while it was stolen. If the dog was stolen, used in fights, then killed another dog, I sure wouldn’t want it back. The article was not all clear about the chain of ownership.
[QUOTE=asb2517;7784470]
Ummm…I didn’t see ANYWHERE in the article that this small dog was sitting on its owner’s lap. Where did you find this little fact? Or is this just part of your “all pitbulls need to be euthanized” rhetoric?[/QUOTE]
It’s a pretty good guess that the owner of an adorable little fluffy dog is carrying said dog when traveling in a streetcar. I don’t think it really matters to the core of the story, though.
I’m surprised any dogs are allowed in streetcars. Where I live, you might be able to sneak a small dog on in an inconspicuous carrier but no way could you get a pitbull in there. Strange dogs, and strange people in a cramped situation can lead to all sorts of things.
I love dogs. One of my favorite dogs is a pitbull. But this dog didn’t just bite another dog - he killed another dog. I do think a dog like this can be safely kept with very careful management, but I’m skeptical of most people’s ability to manage their dogs that well. I would euthanize him if he were my dog.
[QUOTE=wendy;7784330]
it should it be pretty easy to test this particular pitbull for dog and human aggression and make their decision based on that.[/QUOTE]
Life tested it and it failed. What’s the point of redoing the test? We know it readily uses extreme violence in random settings - that’s all we need to know. Yes, it’s very sad for the pit bull that it has this “issue” that 99.9999% of dogs don’t have. But as people have said quite often on this board, there are worse things than euthanasia sometimes. And knowingly expanding the tragedy of this unpredictably violent animal by prolonging its life and its ability to do harm is a worse thing.
Yes, that’s right - latch on to a trivial detail, use snark and then launch a counter-attack. I think you’re really mastered the art of pit bull owner “argument.” I assume the small dog was up, either on a lap or a seat, because most people carry them when they’re in a crowded area such as a train, where being on the floor could get them crushed.
Apparently there were several dogs on the train, all against the law. Dunno if the others were snuck on, but the stories all said the pit was taken on openly.
The owner in Colorado will have major issues with animal control, and their insurance company. Also, if they live in a neighborhood with covenants and regulations, this animal is going to be a problem with that also, since the article has been widely published. If this animal moves back with the owner, and does anything with a person, or another animal, then the owner will be sued and the plaintiff will win.
Just wondering why this little assumption was added to your comment? You know what they say about assuming…it could just as easily be that the Pom was being a little yappy thing that ran up to the Pitbull to try to make friends and it ended badly. How many threads have there been about owners of little dogs letting them do that?
I just find it interesting that you added a little detail about the vicious pitbull snatching the innocent little dog off of its owner’s lap, when the article didn’t say ANYTHING about it. This is just the scenario that fits best into your “pitbulls are evil” agenda.
[QUOTE=red mares;7784660]
The whole story is a little off. Not sure that I buy the idea that the first owners are so much better than the 16 year old it was with. If the dog got loose & ran away, then no they don’t have my vote as good owners.[/QUOTE]
I guess you are perfect and have never had a dog slip out and decide to explore the neighborhood. So anybody that has is a bad owner?
My lab and Eskie made it a few miles down the road once. The front door wasn’t latched properly, blew open and they popped open the screen door. Somebody caught the lab and called my husband’s cell phone. It was 5 in the morning and I was blissfully sleeping. I don’t consider it that they “ran away”. They were being dogs. Hey, we are FREE, lets follow our noses, chase rabbits, run around COOL!!! They were just exploring.
Another time my Eskie popped open the screen on my window and hopped out into the unfenced area of my yard. I was home so caught him quickly. I now only open my windows down.
I once had 2 dogs show up on my property. A lab and a JRT. The lab was owned by idiots who let the dog roam. He went to the neighbor’s house and dug the JRT, who was in heat, out of her very nice kennel run. They showed up at my house an hour away.
I am a bad owner? How about the JRT owner’? What happens if the person that found my dogs decided to not call DH and essentially “stole” him.
In life, manure happens- even to good people and good owners. I would not assume that just because the dog slipped out and took a jaunt that the owners are bad owners.
I think the article was unclear on the chain of possession since nobody yet knows how the dog went from missing from CO owners to being in OR. I think the ownership is clear. The owners are from CO and reported the dog missing in June.
I see nothing in this article to suggest that the dog was used for fighting. Just that it was living with a bunch of homeless youths.
The article stated repeatedly that they don’t know what happened.
I have a JRT/SheltieX. She provokes fights with my doberman female (we keep them separated so this doesn’t happen). But she always growls, lunges at her and snaps at her first. My dobe female generally just stands over her and growls, but it wouldn’t have shocked me if my JRT/SheltieX would have been fatally injured in such a tussle (which is why I keep them separated). My dobe isn’t a “dangerous dog”, she’s just a lot bigger. The real provocateur is the little dog.
Since they are returning the dog to the former owner, I’m going to guess that there was enough information to indicate that perhaps that might have been the case here.
[QUOTE=SonnysMom;7786188]
I guess you are perfect and have never had a dog slip out and decide to explore the neighborhood. So anybody that has is a bad owner?
My lab and Eskie made it a few miles down the road once. The front door wasn’t latched properly, blew open and they popped open the screen door. Somebody caught the lab and called my husband’s cell phone. It was 5 in the morning and I was blissfully sleeping. I don’t consider it that they “ran away”. They were being dogs. Hey, we are FREE, lets follow our noses, chase rabbits, run around COOL!!! They were just exploring.
Another time my Eskie popped open the screen on my window and hopped out into the unfenced area of my yard. I was home so caught him quickly. I now only open my windows down.
I once had 2 dogs show up on my property. A lab and a JRT. The lab was owned by idiots who let the dog roam. He went to the neighbor’s house and dug the JRT, who was in heat, out of her very nice kennel run. They showed up at my house an hour away.
I am a bad owner? How about the JRT owner’? What happens if the person that found my dogs decided to not call DH and essentially “stole” him.
In life, manure happens- even to good people and good owners. I would not assume that just because the dog slipped out and took a jaunt that the owners are bad owners.
I think the article was unclear on the chain of possession since nobody yet knows how the dog went from missing from CO owners to being in OR. I think the ownership is clear. The owners are from CO and reported the dog missing in June.
I see nothing in this article to suggest that the dog was used for fighting. Just that it was living with a bunch of homeless youths.[/QUOTE]
Maybe this pit’s owners had bad luck; maybe they were like my parents and got lazy about keeping gates locked (so a JRT spent 3 days on the run). I don’t know. This is an agressive dog that has already killed another dog. It’s owners don’t have the luxury of bad luck anymore. Their neighbors now get to worry about their previous inability to contain this dog though.
It’s not inconceivable that the dog could have been in fights. It wasn’t mentioned, but I wouldn’t say it’s impossible. When people need money they occaisonally do not nice things. They don’t always admit to doing illegal things either.
I’ve seen enough articles about agressive/killer dogs (even of kids) returned to owners that I don’t put much stock in animal control agencies’ judgement any more.
[QUOTE=asb2517;7786085]
Just wondering why this little assumption was added to your comment? You know what they say about assuming…[/QUOTE]
Really?
[QUOTE=asb2517;7786085] it could just as easily be that the Pom was being a little yappy thing that ran up to the Pitbull to try to make friends and it ended badly.[QUOTE=asb2517;7786085]
The problem with the “it could have been” defense is that it depends on everyone agreeing to be as willfully mindless as the person making it. It is reasonable to assume, without evidence to the contrary, that the owner of a tiny 13yo dog was not letting it scamper merrily about the floor of a crowded streetcar and run up to strange dogs. Are some people innocent enough to let this happen? Sure. But it’s ridiculous to assume the victim’s owner was one, and deeply offensive to shrug off the irrefutably vicious actions of the pit and scrutinize “could have been” scenarios based on wishful thinking.
[QUOTE=asb2517;7786085] How many threads have there been about owners of little dogs letting them do that?[QUOTE=asb2517;7786085]
Lots. And lots of them are populated largely by people who freely use “yapper” and “rat” to make their own dog’s aggression seem more palatable.
The article also didn’t say if the people on the streetcar were bipeds, if the streetcar itself ran on gasoline or on rainbow fumes, or if Lady’s owner (remember Lady? the small old dog who died in agony?) was upset by seeing her pet killed in front of her. The reporter, not being a pit bull owner, assumes readers will fill in those blanks based on past experience, reason and basic literacy skills.
BS. I’m a dog advocate. I love dogs. I don’t like seeing stories about them being maimed, mauled and killed for the “crime” of being on a streetcar. Or, in your version, being “a little yappy thing” that “ran into the pit’s face.” I don’t like bullies and I don’t like their pets.
I don’t think animal control always uses good judgment either. On the San Francisco Animal Cops there were two dogs, had already attacked passers by on several occasions, and the owner had a list of restrictions. The animals both ran out and seriously attacked a person passing by the house, on public property. The behaviorist for AC decided one dog was an instigator, and that one was put down. The other dog was given back to the owner, and because she didn’t want the restrictions on the dog, was given to her adult son in San Diego. Dogs with multiple attacks were given back to the owner, until the last time when one was destroyed. I can’t help but wonder why anyone thought this dog was an acceptable risk, and I can’t believe the son was any better of an owner than his parent was either. I have wondered what happened after that, and if any other poor person was attacked after this.
