Has anyone out there ever had any experience with placing a lien on a horse?
It looks like I am going to be forced to go that route with a horse in my possession, but I have never had to deal with anything like this (or anyone like the owner of record, but that’s for another time) before, and I’m looking for a little guidance.
Thanks
Hire a lawyer if you don’t have one.
I’m guessing you have a contract or other paperwork that allows you to place the lien?
You’ll need to go to the courts to get the lien filed with them, I don’t remember which section you’ll need, but you’ll have to carry the contract or paperwork you have with the owner that includes the owners signature. This keeps the owner from filing a theft report on you, or if they try you’ll have the needed documents from the court or lawyer if you can get them to do it for you.
It is called a stablemen’s or agister’s lien. You do not need an attorney. You do need to go to your state’s website and look these up and follow to the letter. Usually it means you send a certified letter to the last known address (sometimes they provide the wording but you need to give 30 days notice of intent), fill out paperwork at the court and either post a copy of the furnished paperwork filled out, at the courthouse or in the local paper. Sometimes you have to sell it at local auction, sometimes not. It all depends on your area.
You don’t say where you live. Your jurisdiction determines what you can, and cannot, do. If you make a mistake it can be costly (including being charged with theft). So, go here to start:
http://asci.uvm.edu/equine/law/statutes.htm
Find your state’s rules and you’ll get an overview of your options. Then call your attorney and get specific guidance on what’s done in YOUR county.
Yes, this is going to cost you some money. It’s just a cost of doing business. Learn to live with it.
G.
Some States make it very easy a lot don’t. In KY very easy to file a Stablemen’s lien. 30 days, auction on the courthouse steps, buy it back or sell for what and or more than is owed. If bought back in the case of a TB the court will direct the Jockey Club to issue new “papers” in the lien holders name. Here in PA not so simple. It can take months and we are responsible for care, feeding, and vet bills. Unless the horse is worth far more then what is owed IMO and experience you are better off asking nicely to move the horse and stop the “bleeding”. You can always go after them after the fact. IME few walk away from a horse that is a lot more than a past due board bill. When the economic collapse hit we got hung for close to $75,000+ and had to look after a bunch of horses for over a year until we got title so we could give away most. Almost put us out of business and have not fully recovered. Even if you are owed thousands, cut your losses and “beg” them to take it somewhere else. IMO this is where the term “nightmare” came from.
Tax note; you can not write off what is owned just direct expenses.
Have you sent a letter yet saying “pay $__ owed by X date, or a lien will be filed against horse on X date”? Sometimes that shakes loose the funds owing.
If such a letter doesn’t result in payment of what is owed, consider settling with the HO for a lesser amount than is owed, plus HO moves the horse by a given date (after payment clears). Not the ideal outcome, but it might be significantly better for you financially than the expense of the lien. Your lever could be that, having sent the letter and reached the deadline you gave the HO without result, this is HO’s very last chance to settle, pay and move the horse, all done immediately, or the lien will be filed.
You could add an option that HO could settle by signing the horse over to you along with registration and all other papers (Coggins etc.). If that’s an acceptable solution. Tell them the deal is not done until they deliver the paperwork.
Sometimes the legal system is actually the most expensive, least favorable option for the injured party. It’s a good idea to consider all alternatives, looking for the most favorable. Of course you may have already done all this.
Good luck and I hope things work out for you.
In Michigan for instance, it is an “Agister’s Lien” and is very simple, they even provide the wording for the letter.
http://asci.uvm.edu/equine/law/srv_lien/mi_srv.htm
And, has been said by a previous poster, there are good reasons not to file a lien. Here they are:
http://www.equinelegalsolutions.com/ReasonsNottoForecloseAgistersLien.html
[QUOTE=gumtree;7972623]
Tax note; you can not write off what is owned just direct expenses.[/QUOTE]
I suggest contacting a tax attorney or CPA.
I “believe” if your business is using accrual basis of accounting the expenses would be a deduction but not if on Cash Basis of accounting
[QUOTE=clanter;7972826]
I suggest contacting a tax attorney or CPA.
I “believe” if your business is using accrual basis of accounting the expenses would be a deduction but not if on Cash Basis of accounting[/QUOTE]
To be clear, if a client “walks away” from their horse and board owed. They owe say, $2,000 in board. You get title to the horse. You either sell for next to nothing and or give away the horse. You cannot “write off” the full $2,000 against income. If sold this is deducted from what’s owed. You can only write off direct expenses, in other words your direct costs for feed, hay, vet etc. on the balance. You cannot include your profit margin. If a company loses all of its “widget inventory” in a fire. It can only write off their direct cost. Not what they would have sold for in a store, the “street value”.
We went through this a couple of years ago. For considerably more than $2,000. Our accountant is one of the best “horse” accountants in Lexington KY. If you have the bum’s SS number you can file an IRS form stating what was “forgiven”. They will owe income taxes on this.
We are an LLC
I do not run a boarding barn - the situation is that I was verbally promised papers on this horse two years ago when it was given to me for free, and the owner of record has never followed through.
I would like to show the horse this year, and while I have absolutely no problem showing in the Open English classes at our breed shows, I really want the security blanket of registrations papers. Obviously, the situation is no longer anywhere nearing amicable, otherwise I would just ask for the papers. Someone advised me that at this point the only way I can force the issue is to place a lien, and take the horse on back board and vet bills.
I am in Ohio, which states -
[I]CHAPTER 1311. LIENS LIEN ON ANIMALS 1311.48 LIEN FOR CARE OF ANIMALS
As used in sections 1311.48 and 1311.49 of the Revised Code “animal” means any animal other than man and includes fowl, birds, fish, and reptiles, and “owner” means and includes the person who holds legal title to an animal, or any other person, having lawful custody of an animal, who contracts for food, board, or professional services for such animal.
Any person who feeds or boards an animal under contract with the owner shall have a lien on such animal to secure payment for food and board furnished.
1311.49 SALE OF ANIMAL TO SATISFY CLAIM
If the owner of an animal, upon written demand by the lienholder, fails to satisfy a lien acquired under section 1311.48 of the Revised Code the lienholder may sell the animal at public sale to satisfy such lien, provided that before the animal is offered for sale the lienholder shall give ten days’ notice of the time and place of sale in a newspaper of general circulation in the county where food or board was furnished. The lienholder, on the day following publication, shall mail a copy of the public notice to the owner by registered mail at the last known address of such owner. If the animal is sold for a price which exceeds the amount of the lien, plus costs incurred by the lienholder, the remaining balance shall be paid by the lienholder to the owner or to such other person as may be legally entitled to receive same. If the lienholder sells or otherwise disposes of any animal without first giving the notice required by this section he shall not pursue any deficiency upon such obligation.[/I]
I am trying to find out if i HAVE to sell the horse to finish the lien, or once the 30 days are up if the registration papers would automatically be transferable to me? I’m sure it would be no problem to buy this horse back at public auction, I just don’t want to risk taking them to the nearest weekly (which is the dreaded New Holland), and be at risk of losing the bid, or winning the bid and then having to quarantine the horse after I brought it back to make sure it’s not bringing any bugs back to our barn.
[QUOTE=HorseShwBrat;7972188]
Has anyone out there ever had any experience with placing a lien on a horse?
It looks like I am going to be forced to go that route with a horse in my possession, but I have never had to deal with anything like this (or anyone like the owner of record, but that’s for another time) before, and I’m looking for a little guidance.
Thanks[/QUOTE]
and
[QUOTE=HorseShwBrat;7973074]I do not run a boarding barn - the situation is that I was verbally promised papers on this horse two years ago when it was given to me for free, and the owner of record has never followed through.
I would like to show the horse this year, and while I have absolutely no problem showing in the Open English classes at our breed shows, I really want the security blanket of registrations papers. Obviously, the situation is no longer anywhere nearing amicable, otherwise I would just ask for the papers. Someone advised me that at this point the only way I can force the issue is to place a lien, and take the horse on back board and vet bills.
I am in Ohio, which states -
[I]CHAPTER 1311. LIENS LIEN ON ANIMALS 1311.48 LIEN FOR CARE OF ANIMALS
As used in sections 1311.48 and 1311.49 of the Revised Code “animal” means any animal other than man and includes fowl, birds, fish, and reptiles, and “owner” means and includes the person who holds legal title to an animal, or any other person, having lawful custody of an animal, who contracts for food, board, or professional services for such animal.
Any person who feeds or boards an animal under contract with the owner shall have a lien on such animal to secure payment for food and board furnished.
1311.49 SALE OF ANIMAL TO SATISFY CLAIM
If the owner of an animal, upon written demand by the lienholder, fails to satisfy a lien acquired under section 1311.48 of the Revised Code the lienholder may sell the animal at public sale to satisfy such lien, provided that before the animal is offered for sale the lienholder shall give ten days’ notice of the time and place of sale in a newspaper of general circulation in the county where food or board was furnished. The lienholder, on the day following publication, shall mail a copy of the public notice to the owner by registered mail at the last known address of such owner. If the animal is sold for a price which exceeds the amount of the lien, plus costs incurred by the lienholder, the remaining balance shall be paid by the lienholder to the owner or to such other person as may be legally entitled to receive same. If the lienholder sells or otherwise disposes of any animal without first giving the notice required by this section he shall not pursue any deficiency upon such obligation.[/I]
I am trying to find out if i HAVE to sell the horse to finish the lien, or once the 30 days are up if the registration papers would automatically be transferable to me? I’m sure it would be no problem to buy this horse back at public auction, I just don’t want to risk taking them to the nearest weekly (which is the dreaded New Holland), and be at risk of losing the bid, or winning the bid and then having to quarantine the horse after I brought it back to make sure it’s not bringing any bugs back to our barn.[/QUOTE]
Quoted for posterity
So you own the horse (“given to me for free years ago”) but want to put a lien on it so the former owner is forced to hand over papers?? Color me cornfused.
Also, if you are in possession of the horse, and, if you own the horse, how can the former owner take it to new holland?
[QUOTE=Ambitious Kate;7973106]
and
Quoted for posterity
So you own the horse (“given to me for free years ago”) but want to put a lien on it so the former owner is forced to hand over papers?? Color me cornfused.
Also, if you are in possession of the horse, and, if you own the horse, how can the former owner take it to new holland?[/QUOTE]
The legal owner can not take the horse to sale (well, actually they can, by right of legal ownership). The wording of the revised code implies that the only way to complete the lien is to take the horse to a sale to recoup money lost. THAT is what I am worried about.
[QUOTE=Ambitious Kate;7973106]
and
Quoted for posterity
So you own the horse (“given to me for free years ago”) but want to put a lien on it so the former owner is forced to hand over papers?? Color me cornfused.
Also, if you are in possession of the horse, and, if you own the horse, how can the former owner take it to new holland?[/QUOTE]
The legal owner can not take the horse to sale (well, actually they can, by right of legal ownership). The wording of the revised code implies that the only way to complete the lien is to take the horse to a sale to recoup money lost. THAT is what I am worried about.
Also, as long as this horse is “paperless”, she is essentially useless - can’t be shown at breed shows in all but two classes, can’t eventually be bred, and if anything where to happen to me, unsaleable within our breed because of no papers. With me this horse is a lifer I would like to have some fun with, with the owner of record she was starved and a week away from the non-stop truck to Canada.
Your case sounds pretty specialized, it might be best to contact a lawyer that specializes in horse stuff to get the best answer to solve your problem.
I assume you have already talked to the registry about getting some duplicate papers?
[QUOTE=HorseShwBrat;7973074]
while I have absolutely no problem showing in the Open English classes at our breed shows, I really want the security blanket of registrations papers. [/QUOTE]
What security are you expecting to get from the registration papers?
[QUOTE=trubandloki;7973164]
I assume you have already talked to the registry about getting some duplicate papers?[/QUOTE]
Our registry does not hand out duplicate papers to someone who is not owner-of-record. You have to have proof of sale or a court order to get them.
I’m going to be contacting an attorney friend today, to see what they can advise me.
[QUOTE=RockinHorse;7973178]
What security are you expecting to get from the registration papers?[/QUOTE]
The usual security that one has with registration papers?
I do think you HAVE to publicly advertise the horse and then sell it if you want to pursue the lien. There is nothing stopping you from having a friend/ family member bid on and buy the horse for you, however. This is because the owner is owed any money above the amount of the lien.
I’m not sure how this would work in your situation-- to clarify, you were given the horse with a verbal promise of the papers-- were you given a bill of sale or ANY paperwork? What do you actually need in order to get duplicate papers? The lien or auctioning off the horse and buying it will give you legal title to the horse (i.e. bill of sale) but it won’t necessarily replace the horse’s papers or allow you to replace them. I think you would be better off trying to offer money to get the owner to cooperate.
So clearly when this friend gave you this horse they did not give you a bill of sale (or you would have mentioned that).
Do you have any correspondence with them regarding your ownership of the horse?
I am not sure registration papers equal ownership anymore than a hand written bill of sale will.
[QUOTE=HorseShwBrat;7973190]
The usual security that one has with registration papers?[/QUOTE]
Are you looking for the papers as proof of ownership? Typically, having papers in hand is not, in and of itself, proof of ownership.
Also, I am confused. You say you own the horse (was given to you) but you also want to say you do not own the horse (owed for board etc?) Which is it you do, or do not, own the horse.
Finally, did you have any agreement with the prior owner that they would pay for board and vet? If not, I am not sure how you can retroactively go back and demand that now.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
