Please judge these NPA feet- post shoes

[RJC]

Hi, CoTH friends. This started on the NPA thread, but responses helped open my eyes to how little I feel I can trust my farrier right now. He’s coming tomorrow and I’m hoping we can get my boy in a better spot, as he’s currently chronically sore over his haunches and in his lumbar region despite SI, stifle, and muscle injections. I’m looking for comments on what is wrong currently and what needs to be done so I can ask for specific changes.

The photos were taken today at exactly 4 weeks since last trim. I see too much toe, issues with flare on the outside sides of both hinds, and underrun heels. I’m trying to learn about hoof mapping and trimming from resources posted on old threads, but it’s early days.

The rads are from two weeks ago (two weeks post trim). I did attempt to rasp his hind toes back a bit right after his vet appointment, but didn’t do much because I don’t know what I’m doing.

The pictures are labeled RF=Right Front/LH=Left Hind. The rads are RR=Right Rear/LR= Left Rear.

Please educate me. The plan is to shorten and remove sole from the toes and shoe all four (with leather pads in the back). I’ll also ask for comments on the post-farrier pics to see how urgently we need a new farrier or if good changes were made.

Thank you for any help!

[TWH_Girl]

Good luck tomorrow, Becky! Wish I had some insight into this but this is one issue I don’t know much about. Do you have to do repeat X-rays at a certain point?

[Cac0587]

Honestly, this are not aweful. Looks a lot better then my last farrier, front eh photos the growth seems normal for 4 weeks. The goal is to “back the hoof up” through the heel, not JUST the toe. I keep backing up the heels to the widest part of the frog. The goal is to get a really healthy and supportive heel, the rest of the foot will follow.

Not sure how to read the X-rays, hopefully someone will chime in, but the foot itself is not aweful.

[Ziggy793]

Agree not the worst I’ve ever seen, will likely be a relatively long-term process of keeping that toe back and encouraging heel growth. I do note that there looks to be some central sulcus thrush (evidenced by the deep crack in the central sulcus between the heel bulb) and getting that treated will likely help encourage better heel development. I love Artimud personally.

[fivestrideline]

Agree that I’ve seen worse. But those curving growth rings show that the heels are going to be priority number one! No matter how much you back up the toe, if the heels keep running forward you won’t see progress.

I’m still learning about all of this too, but I think a really good farrier/trimmed who knows what they’re doing can get these feet turned around in no time. Based on the X-rays there looks to be toe that can come off while encouraging the heels back without dropping their height - this will be easier than trying to do that on a horse with no toe to come off.

[RJC]

Interesting. No one has mentioned that to me before. Treating seems straightforward enough. Thanks!

[RJC]

I appreciate the feedback @fivestrideline, @Ziggy793, and @Cac0587!

I just snapped some really quick pictures because I needed to get back to work after a very long appointment, but I asked about the heels multiple times and he said they were fine. He didn’t touch the heels at all and didn’t take much off the toes either. He did put on hind shoes only and grind them down at the toe, but he essentially still says there wasn’t much toe to take off. My BO and I are in contact with another farrier who can take on new clients and from talking to him, he has a totally different approach, but we just don’t know enough to judge merit.

I asked my farrier to explain things every step of the way and he took time showing me measurements, hoof mapping, and contour checks and it seemed to mostly make sense…but I just don’t know. He said you need to take everything into account, from how the horse lives, to how they are ridden, how fit they are, and their histories to decide what to do with them. That vets see them for a moment in time and x-rays are a moment in time and vets don’t see these horses 10x a year like farriers do. I just don’t knoooowww.

Please note that I took the right hind pic from the left side, so you’re looking at the medial side of his foot.

[Ottbaxel]

Can I hijack this post and put pics of my gelding’s NPA feet as well? Would love opinions!

[RJC]

Have at it. I’m trying to learn about this as quickly as possible and I only have one horse to use as an example

[Ziggy793]

I think it tends to be pretty underdiagnosed! It’s definitely worse on his fronts than his hinds (was he previously shod up front?) so treating will likely not be a panacea for your NPA but can’t hurt!

[Ottbaxel]

Hopefully these upload correctly-this was pre first set of rads where we discovered the NPA. I will take pics of his current setup tomorrow, and find the rads!

[Ottbaxel]

Not sure these pics are any good (he was a little antsy on the crossties), but post-shoeing to fix NPA (only one shoe cycle in):

[Ottbaxel]

Just bumping this up since I posted it on the weekend when people probs aren’t perusing COTH forums as much!

[RJC]

General note- I met with a new farrier yesterday and he didn’t think what was done on the hinds was sufficient to instantly correct my boy’s angles, but if he grows enough heel with the shoes on, that make improve his angles by the time he’s ready for a reset.

This farrier said it’s “old school” to be afraid to put wedges on the hinds. That in most cases, you don’t leave them on forever, but it helps to immediately provide relief while they grow out and get shaped to be back in alignment.

He also pointed out that my boy’s medial and lateral hoof walls on both his front feet didn’t match in height, which could -over years- lead to issues like ringbone. I’m feeling optimistic that another reset after this can get us to a really good place.

[Ottbaxel]

@RJC

This farrier said it’s “old school” to be afraid to put wedges on the hinds. That in most cases, you don’t leave them on forever, but it helps to immediately provide relief while they grow out and get shaped to be back in alignment.

Hmm, maybe I’ll just give them a go. I don’t really want to go against my vet’s recommendation, but since it hasn’t worked for us thus far and he’s not rideable anyways I suppose it can’t hurt to say screw it and just go with the wedges.

I also saw in another thread that 3D mesh frog support pads worked really well for someone, so I texted my farrier to see what he thinks of that!

[RJC]

I also looked up those pads! I think that’s a good option if they need to be on for a longer period. I should ask new farrier about them.

I’m obviously still learning about all of this, but from what I learned from new farrier yesterday, your horse’s hinds just look so…tucked under and forward. Could you get a picture of what they look like when he’s standing so his cannon bones are perpendicular to the ground? It’s hard to see if there’s any alignment improvement with how he’s standing in the newer pics. (this thought brought to you by learning to draw a line down their leg to see where that line lands in relation to the foot)

[Ottbaxel]

I’ll try tonight - It’s really tough to get him to stand that way right now unfortunately. I tried the other day but I was wearing real clothes and he was covered in dust so I didn’t want to touch him too much and get covered in dirt hahaha. Right now if you put pressure on his hind end to move him around, he either refuses and leans back on you or hops around quickly, so it’s hard to actually place him where you want.

[fivestrideline]

FWIW - they should stand with vertical cannons most of the time. As in, that should be their default position when not moving or grazing. Being camped under like that most of the time is a sign of hind end discomfort (as you know) and often leads to NPA if not being caused by it.

[RJC]

Oh man he sounds really uncomfortable… when do you plan to retake rads to see if progress is being made on the angles?

[RJC]

Realized I never answered your question. He has worn shoes up front for short periods of time for show season in the past, but not for the last two years. I asked our new farrier about the central sulcus thrush and he poked around with his hoof knife and said that it might have started earlier, but there was no active thrush right now. We had kind of a wet spring and I was not good about picking out his feet regularly. Could that have been when it started and now with drier weather it cleared up on it’s own?