Please, saddle gurus: wide wither & spine ideas

[Saskatoonian]

Pulling my head out of the sand and recognizing that my well loved Amerigo DJ is no longer working, and the fitter was adamant about that. No surprise: the horse was already voting. He also rejected (again) my Antares (Contact? Connection? IDK). She described him as having a wide spine and withers. He also has a short back and big shoulders, and wants my balance forward and upswept panels. Well, ok then: at least I have info to work from.

So far on the list to consider are Prestige, Equipe (huh, thought that was Amerigo’s less $$ line), Black Country (never sat in one I liked), and County. Maybe an Amerigo Largo. Any thoughts on other possibilities? Here’s the other problem: I will confess that, while I don’t judge anyone else’s tack, I’m an enormous leather and tack snob and cannot stand ugly/garish/bulbous saddles for myself. I know this is going to mean that he wants a Voltaire … because stripes.

TIA!

[LazyA1]

You’re going to get a zillion opinions here. I’d go to one of the better used saddle sellers, who will look at pictures and help you. I’ve used Pik & Louie and Goldfinch with great success.

I also have a local fitter who has been a huge help getting me in the ballpark of what I need for each horse (I have multiple horses).

Also, avoid those on line saddle fit Facebook groups. They abhor French saddles and anything with short tree points. They may have some valid points, but mine go just fine in their Tad, Antares, and DelGrange, respectively.

[IPEsq]

Some Equipe saddles are quite pricey. It’s a totally separate brand, but they are made in the same factory in Italy as Amerigo. They are foam paneled versus the flocked panels for Amerigo. Lots of different models and tree shapes. What isn’t fitting about the current saddle? Did it ever fit? What size is it? Maybe the Amerigo HC Largo would be better?

I mentioned in another thread that I have a wide tree Equipe EKGO I’m selling—PM if you are interested. Not sure from your description if that would be good shape or not for your horse but it did offer better spinal clearance for my guy for a while after he no longer tolerated the first saddle I was using. Ultimately had to custom order him something even wider fit.

[Against_All_Odds2]

I have an Amerigo Largo and it is lovely. I’d go up to at least a 3+ though.

I have an Erreplus Contact SL coming as my Amerigo tree is twisted and I need something in the meantime. From the photos it looks even more generous than the Amerigo Largo

DJ Largo:

Erreplus:

[Saskatoonian]

Thanks, everyone. I fully expected - and want! - lots of opinions. Happy to sift through and I will be working with the fitter and reputable sellers. Let’s see about the questions…

The report on the current saddle - a MW - is that the rails are too narrow under my leg, and he needs more room for his wide withers. Basically a wider gullet, maybe dropped panels, IMHO. He’s a TB but stout. It worked for a couple of years but for the past 6 mo or so he hasn’t really been happy and I’ve been trying to work out what was up. Yeah, saddle. Ugh.

Wouldn’t have thought of Erreplus - will take a look.

[onlyTBmares]

I just ordered one. I have a WB with tall TB like withers that are very wide. I rode him in the demo and he immediately dropped his head and lifted his back. It’s supposed to be here in 3 weeks so fingers crossed. It’s a little less “classic” in appearance than I would prefer but my horse is happy and I liked the balance.

[IPEsq]

What does the stamp/serial number say? Is that a +1 or +1.5 tree? I found the DJ also was too much of a squeeze in the rails on my normal spine but high withers and big shouldered horse. He goes in an Equipe Allegra now. I never bothered with trying to find other Amerigo demos because he hated the one DJ demo so much. The Allegra has a cutback tree and can accommodate longer withers. But the Allegra will be too narrow under the stirrup bars for a horse who is really thick at the base of the withers (like my horse who used the +2 EKGO—hates the Allegra even though the angle in the shoulder is nice for him).

Erreplus is another brand that my wider horse didn’t object to as far as shoulder fit, but of the 4 models I tried, only one of them was even remotely the right shape elsewhere. I forget the different model names, but if you need more of an upswept panel feeling in the back, you likely need to go with one of their deeper seat models, not a flatter seat. Ultimately, I bought a wide tree Voltaire Stuttgart. I don’t think the fit is all that wonderful (as sometimes it wants to bounce in the back), but the horse likes it, so . I didn’t get the extra wide channel option since I was getting the wide tree which is a bit wider in the channel as well, but they do have that option available.

[TheJenners]

@onlyTBmares

It’s a little less “classic” in appearance than I would prefer but my horse is happy and I liked the balance.

That’s how I feel about my Hastilow, but I figure my butt and thighs cover most of it

[Against_All_Odds2]

In my photos thats a +2 Amerigo DJ Largo Tree and a 34 Erreplus tree. And they say ladies clothing is all over the map in sizes

The horse is a fairly flat backed round QH so I think he’ll even prefer his temp saddle

[Saskatoonian]

It’s a +1.5, and the gullet looks generous, so it never occurred to me that the rails might be too tight. Now I wonder if the Largo has a different tree or if the rail problem will remain…

Freaking horses!!

[Against_All_Odds2]

I was told its a more open “U” head iron. Not sure on the tree. There is one at Sprucewood (ontario) if you want to try it

[Saskatoonian]

Thanks!

[onlyTBmares]

I wanted the flatter seat and the fitter told me no. I had to go with the deeper seat to get the upswept panels to fit the horse’s back. You and I had been discussed the Amerigo, which I think I would have been thrilled with, but I couldn’t find what looked like the right one used, and when I contacted the rep she said it would be 6-12 months until I could get a new one. That was a deal breaker for me. That would be different depending on the area, our local rep would need to order demos.

[IPEsq]

The rails should be set wider on the Largo. It’s not a model for longer withers though, so the question is whether widening the gullet and rails is enough or if you just need a different shape. Or a different size tree. The HC will fit with a more upswept back part of the saddle and comes in a Largo version.

[IPEsq]

This is what my EKGO looks like and the moose it used to fit. (Would need a +3 at least now)

[Belmont]

The good news is if you need a wider gullet for the spine, most of the on-brand french saddles are out. SO no ugly stripes!

[Saskatoonian]

Now that’s a very good looking moose! The gullet on the saddle doesn’t look that much wider than my Amerigo, though I guess a small difference in appearance can feel vastly different to a horse, and mine seems to be a bit of a princess.

Sad about no on-brand French saddles! When I pulled out my Antares to give it one last try I was floored again with how beautiful it is - just gorgeous leather and perfect workmanship, and no stripes! LOL (Come on, Voltaire, I have my own colors and they are emphatically not brown and blue.)

[awaywego]

No idea about anything else but Forestier saddles have an exceptionally wide channel.

[Festivity]

It may be too weird looking for you, but I’d recommend looking at the jumping saddle that EQ saddle science has. They can be customized in all sorts of ways and you can set the panels in such a way to give him lots of spine clearance. They’re also good at providing great shoulder freedom. My mare and I love the dressage saddle we have from them.

[IPEsq]

The gullet in the back probably isn’t. But the rails shape is different, head iron is different, and the depth of the gullet is different to fit longer withers better, and the tree is wider by 1/2cm from your saddle. We tried a DJ on him at one point, but my rep only had a medium, and he looked like he was wearing a top hat not a saddle. Fat guy in a little coat! If you put your palm in the gullet of my CWD it would also appear wider, even when that saddle was squeezing him and the EKGO provided better clearance and more room. The gullet can appear wide also just due to how the panels are set. If your horse isn’t a shelf across his back, you may not need the gullet that wide in terms of where the panels sit. But under where your leg goes and where the stirrup bars are set, the shape of the rails makes a huge difference, which is partially reflected in the gullet width but not totally depending on how the panels are attached and the height of the gullet.

I was trying dressage saddles on another horse yesterday. One saddle looked fine in width and profile. But it was too much of a squeeze at the stirrup bars on that horse (making it unstable side to side) and then bridged behind that despite having a more upswept rear panel. Different saddle was even straighter in the tree but did not bridge because it was more roomy under the stirrup bars so settled onto the horse better / with more stability at that wider part and then followed the horse’s shape on back.