Please Talk Me Out of This Puppy!

I have four dogs. Three of them are seniors. The big 70# mutt is 12, the terrier/chi mix is no younger than 13, but could be well over that. The Peke is at least 10. (All 3 of the littles came from my municipal shelter with no previous info on them; the big dog was dumped at my house as a puppy so I know his age.)

I’ve wanted Pekes ever since I saw St Aubrey Dragonora of Elsdon win Westminster as a kid. Having Tricki Woo (who lost his sight due to glaucoma and an eye lesion) just confirmed that this is the breed for me! I love their toughness, non-Velcro tendencies and entitled attitude. :grin:

I’ve been looking at Peke breeders for several years but could never justify $2000+ for a puppy. But yesterday I found a mom-and-pop breeder here with two puppies for sale for $400 each. From the photos they appear to be well conformed to the breed standard, which I want.

There weren’t any pictures of the parents, or info on any health screenings, but obviously I would check on this if I more forward.

I’m hesitant because four dogs is a lot (but no problem) but five seems to give off an eau de hoarder. Though with three senior dogs, odds are that it wouldn’t be that many for too long.

I’m also hoping that my puppy mill young dog, who learned that life outside a small cage isn’t terrifying by being walked with the elderly terrier mix, might start bonding with a younger dog who will be around for a long time.

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I’m assuming you also saw Palace Garden Malachy (I think that was his name?) win Westminster 11(?) years ago? I fell head-over-HEEL in love with him the previous year and then again the next year. I think I saw one of his grandsons there a few years ago?

Go for the puppy. I would if it were a kitten and I were allowed 5 cats where I live and my one kitty [18yo[ had not told me multiple times that she does. Not. WANT. another cat in the house. But your situation and your animals are different. Go for the puppy.

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If puppies typically go for $2K and these people are charging $400, I would run from this particular breeder. Every time I’ve seen that much of a discount on a purebred dog, something has ended up not right.

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I agree with you, except for two mitigating factors. One, this is a very poor area overall and 2) I’ve only been using the breeder directory on the AKC website and searching for show breeders. The closest found was in Atlanta and the next closest is in Memphis. Both are a REALLY long trip from here.

This guy isn’t a professional breeder based on his ad, and Pekes aren’t popular around here, so the low price doesn’t scream “run away!” to me.

But if I proceed, I would insist on having 7 days for my vet to check out the pup, with any health issues enabling a return with full refund.

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A $400 puppy is at fairly high risk of being a mediocre breed representative. It’s darn expensive producing to the breed standard and ensuring healthy animals. I’d ask a lot of questions around the parents, meet the mom at a minimum, and see if they are willing to have a candid conversation around things like luxating patellas, herniated discs, trichaiasis, and of course breathing issues. They are very very temperature sensitive. I wouldn’t own one in the south personally. In the vet clinic I worked I found that many poorly bred ones are quite snippy. They aren’t bred to be overly affectionate so I’d make sure the core disposition is a good match and not just the aesthetic appeal. Driving farther for a well bred dog is rarely a bad investment in time and resources considering the animal will be with you 12-15 years (hopefully).

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I would say on anything really, not just dogs.

OP before you spend a bunch of time angsting on a decision, reach out to the seller with your questions and expectations. I have a hunch chances are you will get your answer pretty quickly.

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Thanks, everyone! I would definitely reach out for questions first!

I do have a Peke already (in the South) and he lives inside in the A/C except for recreation time, and when it’s really hot and humid he only goes out long enough to potty, so I’m comfortable managing a smooshed-face dog.

And to be clear, I would never spend thousands (or even one thousand) on a dog. No matter how well bred. To me that’s a crazy price for a living creature. I had just assumed that my future dogs would be small mutts from our shelter, until I stumbled across these pups. But I’ve carefully looked at their photos, compared them to puppy pictures in The Quigley Book of the Pekingese, and while they’re not show quality, they do seem to be good representatives of the breed.

The next stumbling block would be whether my office allowed me to bring the pup to work and keep it in the carrier in our warehouse area so I could walk it every few hours until it’s old enough to last till lunchtime when I could make the hour round trip home every day. If they say no, then the question is moot.

Here’s Tricki Woo. I still can’t believe he was dumped!

Younger, right after adoption and eye surgery:

This year:

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I too like Pekingese dogs from meeting some old champions as a child. My Gramma had a friend who spent winters at Gramma’s house with her two Peke males.

As an adult person, I have made it a rule to not get any flat-faced faced dogs because of breathing issues. They can have many problems, especially here in our very cold winter weather. The problems may be worse now, dogs being more flat-faced to show and win. Underbite may be an issue with defending itself with other dogs. Also with eating, not able to eat well if teeth are not aligned.

My small dogs need to be able to go outside in the fenced yard, run hard and play with the big dog. I am not much for carrying them, they have 4 good legs!! The long hair is not an issue for me, keeps them warm in our cold weather. Floppy, hairy ears might be a problem, holding in heat for ear infections.

Do get a Vet inspection before buying. Vets may know of or notice things you would not, within the breed. Not all backyard breeders are scumbags! You are not planning to show or compete, breed more dogs. Testing by breeders costs money, as do the shows needed to gain Championship points. Raises the cost of doing business when selling puppies! I have bought our last few dogs from home breeders and been VERY satisfied with the dogs. I like to think we can evaluate movement well, look at the parents, to make good choices. Ask the questions on breed issues, to make our choices. The AKC listed breeders were pretty snotty, did not respond when contacted, wasted a YEAR of my time trying to get a puppy. Supposedly “on the puppy list” for next litter. Never got called back, always an excuse why I could not get a puppy thru seven litters, various breeders!! I finally went online, found several home breeders near each other, unrelated dogs and lined up visits on a trip to look at puppies and parents. Went back to the first breeder after comparing all of them. We brought home a really nice female, and way less than half the cost of fancier breeders. Money back if puppy did not pass OUR Vet inspection and for a year’s health guarantee. No show record on parents but they were LOVELY movers, just floated across the ground. Nice minded when meeting us, after announcing our arrival. Did not care if we petted them, ran hands over bodies checking structure, hair coats.

A word of caution with short-legged, long backed dog, is to keep stair climbing to a minimum. Lift dog in and OUT of cars, trucks, onto chair or sofa furniture. No jumping up if possible. It is SO easy to damage their spines. Keep weight down, be able to feel ribs without digging! They run and play more when lighter weight. Even a pound or two extra, adds work to running. I do not give treats, human table scraps, or soft/canned dog foods. It is GOOD for teeth and gums, jaw muscles, to chew dry dog food if they can. I use a measuring cup to control portions, amazing how much that helps keep weight where you want it! Strenghtens everything facial with firm chewing. I am probably preaching to the choir, you have gotten your present dogs into old age in good shape. Our Corgi had no teeth or skeletal issues into her old age with this management, Vet always commented on that. Our other dogs live to be old too, in pretty good health.

I say go visit the puppies. Do NOT wait, it is puppy buying season, they will go fast. With older dogs, things can fall apart quickly, new puppy will be in place to help you with that. It does me and our other dog when we lose the old dog. Our old dogs can seem to be fine, then fall apart a month or two later, be ready to go. We got TWO puppies last year 3 months apart, The old dog had to teach them how to get on before we lost him to a fast growing brain tumor! He did well, both puppies have grown into quite nice doggie citizens.

Hope they are nice enough puppies to bring one home with you! For sure it will liven things up! Ha ha

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Do your due diligence, evaluating yourself the litter’s conformation and quality of health screenings performed, and with vet advice as needed – then get the puppy! The price alone doesn’t scare me, if everything checks out otherwise.

eta: What goodhors said. Absolutely agree that a backyard/small breeder CAN be fantastic. Go see the puppies and evaluate everything you can. Post pics when you get home!

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Have you thought about contacting the breed club in your area (or farther, if you are in a particularly isolated area) to see about potential young retirees from the show ring)? There is also an excellent Facebook group “Retired Showdogs and Wellbred Purebreds”).

I just got an excellent puppy, but would totally not go through the puppy stages again!

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Great idea! And I did do that. They sent me the same breeders listed on the AKC site. When I reached out to them about a puppy I also mentioned I would be interested in an older dog needing a pet home.

Only one guy got back to me and offered me an older female that his vet deemed infertile. Her price was $2,500! :flushed:

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Sent a text to the breeder asking about availability, sex, whether the bitch was available to meet, and if they’d honor a 7- day money back health guarantee.

I’ll see if they respond, and what the answers are.

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Oh, yikes. Please don’t support irresponsible backyard breeders, especially in a breed that’s so prone to problems :frowning:

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Beware of scammers. So many out there pulling all kinds of tricks on unsuspecting buyers.

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With no information except three puppy pix and age posted how do you possible know they’re an irresponsible breeder!?

If they reply back with a bunch of sketchy answers, then sure. But I’ve looked at a lot of photos of both well- and poorly-bred pups, and the conformation on these speaks to having come from “correct” parents. That’s not irresponsibly breeding to me….

Edited to fix typos.

Absolutely! If this did work out, money would change hands in person, and the pup would be taken with me, along with a signed health guarantee including full name and address matching the location where the pups lived.

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What kind of genetic testing was done on the parents for congenital issues? The puppy I got had fully tested parents and they were also actively showing with excellent results. Admittedly, I did pay a lot more for this puppy, but with a breed with known health issues I wanted all the help I could get!

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Because you’ve not stated anything indicating otherwise? How have the sire and dam been proven? What pre breeding screening was completed?

Makes public results of screening tests. Looking at the Pekingese, hips, cardiac, patellas, eyes and legg-calve-perthes is pretty standard for the breed. What’s been done here? You can search by kennel, so you should be able to pull up the sire & dam of this litter, if anything has been done.

Responsible breeders prove their dogs in some way, and screen before breeding to ensure they’re not producing problems.

Here’s the breed club in the US:

Breeders listed there have to agree to the club’s ethical guidelines. That’s a MUCH better place to start in looking for a puppy, rather than the AKC breeder listings. AKC guarantees nothing except parentage–there’s zero ethical obligation to produce mentally and physically sound puppies.

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This is what I said in my first post:

And I did also say I’d checked the breed club, where all the breeders listed on the East Cost were the same as those listed on the AKC site. I also said that if my only option is paying thousands for a puppy, then I’ll stick with shelter dogs because (IMO) it’s crazy to spend that kind of money on a dog unless you’re planning to show it.

Making general snarky statements about “backyard” breeders without knowing details of the particular people you’re insulting is completely irrational. After all, it’s only the last decade or two that families looking for pets have been driven to go to show breeders instead of relying on local community members. And most of our past dogs turned out to be wonderful healthy pets.

I’m not defending this person—I just don’t understand the hostility to considering a local breeder. I’m reserving judgment until I get more info about the pups.

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National Mill Dog Rescue has one that is cute and needs a home…

Then you don’t have to worry about any scammers –

Kacey is the dog’s name and they are listed alphabetically.