Pop Rocks Users Check In

[SuckerForHorses]

Someone posted a question about the paste made in Canada by PreRace (or wahtever its called!)…

Does the paste from Abler have anything specific as far as ingredient that will ensure it bypasses the stomach unharmed and into the small intestine?

It seems like if you aren’t going to use UlcerGard or GastroGard, and want to order from one of these other companies, that the safest one to use would be the pop rocks since Hey 101 tested the coating and proved that they should successfully make it thru the stomach acid. Nobody has been able to test the paste versions yet, correct? So therefore, if you prefer a paste, the only one we know FOR SURE works properly and effectively, woudl be the UlcerGard or GastroGard.

Anyone want to chime in here?

[SuckerForHorses]

Just saw this on the Abler site, for their paste form:

AbGard™ Benefits:
Specially formulated Omeprazole in a paste form. A basifying agent in the formulation protects the Omeprazole from degradation in the acidic conditions of the stomach.

[deltawave]

Omeprazole can be protected very nicely by using a base to buffer the stomach acid. Once you get the first few doses in, the stomach pH is usually high enough anyway for the drug to survive.

I just hate to paste or monkey with horses to give meds if I don’t have to. The pop rocks are so easy to feed and none of mine object to the tiny serving in the slightest.

[Lieslot]

The prerace website would make one believe the paste is protected to make it thru the stomach, but seems they copy their info from the GG site.
So nope, we don’t know if the prerace paste is formulated to make it to the small intestine.

Personally I wonder if one could give the prerace paste combined with a handfull or the U-gard pellets as a buffer, perhaps that might work somewhat.

[SuckerForHorses]

My mare is a SUPER PICKY eater, but very easy to dose with a syringe, so for me a paste is easier.

[hey101]

@deltawave;6119285

Omeprazole can be protected very nicely by using a base to buffer the stomach acid.

This is very true, and is the entire basis of how UG/ GG works, dressed up in a paste formulation. While doing my day job, (<-- love it when my day job and horsey lives collide! :D) I had a conversation with a colleague recently about Zegerid and similar formulations… even I was surprised at how little sodium bicarb it takes to neutralize stomach acid. The Zegerid product contains 1100mg of Na2CO3, which is enough to neutralize about 200mL of stomach acid.

anyone know how much acid a horse’s stomach contains?

In any case, if one were to follow the same ratio of omeprazole: Na2CO3 as Zegerid (40mg) to pop rocks dosage (700mg), you would need about 20g of plain 'ol Arm&Hammer baking soda to protect the omeprazole. A 1lb box of A&H is about $3 and would last you about 3 weeks.

Breaking news: This conversation with my colleague just happened late last week, so I got on the horn wiht some API suppliers and am now trying to find out if I can purchase neat omeprazole drug legally as a private individual within the US. I have absolutely no idea if I can as I’ve never tried to do something like this, but since it’s available OTC, I thought it might be possible. If I am successful, I’ll be sure to report back with cost and legality! This would give a very viable option to those who do not want to do the BPR for whatever reason (legality, ex-US, etc), and based on my (extremely knowledgeable, first-hand experience) colleagues’ feedback, I feel quite confident this would be just as effective as BPF or GG/UG. it would be as easy as dumping 0.7g of neat omeprazole and ~20g Na2CO3 on to your horse’s feed or dosing in a syringe full of water (water is neutral pH so will not harm the omeprazole)

Stay tuned…

[omare]

I am thinking the canadian prerace has calcuim carbonate (oops not soduim bicarbonate) in it–that seems to be what is in the Big-Dee product and most of the others.

[KitKat987]

Ok, after two doses of pop rocks my horse appears to be feeling really, really, really good…

Instead of coming trotting into the paddock as per usual when called, he is GALLOPING, hitting the brakes before running me down, then proceeding to do a big fancy trot in circles around me all playfully throwing his head in the air. He just looks so full of beans or bananas or something. It’s refreshing to see. He’s always been a bit this way, but tonight it was over the top.

When I rode today he was WAY more forward than usual. He tends to be a nag with the spurs kind of ride, but tells me off with a good buck a few times every day. Today no bucking, and I was constantly asking him to slow down.

He was happy to let his mate eat right beside him. There was no chasing the other one off.

When I picked his feet out he stood quietly. No shaking of the back feet, no trying to walk away. (This was probably the biggest change - I don’t think he ever hasn’t swung his back legs around when one is picked up.)

I’m leery to believe this change could happen so easily and suddenly and wondering if I’m imagining these things. I guess I’ll see what the next month brings, but as of right now he seems like a very happy pony

And for anyone wondering, he was always a very easy keeper, nice and shiny, just some of his behaviour like the lack of ‘go’ under saddle and the bucking led me to suspect ulcers.

[Alibhai_s_Alibar]

[QUOTE=Alibhai’s Alibar;5951822]
Update: After a month of 3 sachets per day, I see zero change. There has been no change to him whatsoever. On to the next experiment

Wizard’s a picky eater, and he had no issues eating the granules. He does tend to flip his feed tub over, so I put a blob of molasses on top of his feed and emptied the packets directly into the molasses. This meant that 1) he ate them first and that 2) they did not scatter all over the place.[/QUOTE]

Update to the update…

Wizard was scoped today and it revealed some grade 1 to 1.5 ulcers.

So this is my question…

If he was treated with 3 sachets a day for a month in October 2011, did the ulcers 1) come back or 2) never get healed?

Since he was not scoped before the treatment, I know that there is no way of really knowing, but in general, how fast can ulcers come back?

[tabula_rashah]

[QUOTE=Alibhai’s Alibar;6246595]
Update to the update…

Wizard was scoped today and it revealed some grade 1 to 1.5 ulcers.

So this is my question…

If he was treated with 3 sachets a day for a month in October 2011, did the ulcers 1) come back or 2) never get healed?

Since he was not scoped before the treatment, I know that there is no way of really knowing, but in general, how fast can ulcers come back?[/QUOTE]

Probably came back- They can develop really fast, like in a few days. Progressive has a really good FAQ page on ulcers

[Alibhai_s_Alibar]

[QUOTE=tabula rashah;6246611]
Probably came back- They can develop really fast, like in a few days. Progressive has a really good FAQ page on ulcers[/QUOTE]

Wow- thanks for the link!

[Alibhai_s_Alibar]

So now I’m torn between treating with UlcerGard and trying the pop rocks again. I saw zero change last time we tried them.

[Cody]

Ok, I bought the BPR to try after I had my boy scoped and knew for sure he had an ulcer. Followed the instructions to the letter. Had him rechecked this week. The ulcer hasn’t gotten any worse, nor any better. So I guess I’ll just finish out what I have and wait to reorder.

[SuckerForHorses]

[QUOTE=Alibhai’s Alibar;6246618]
So now I’m torn between treating with UlcerGard and trying the pop rocks again. I saw zero change last time we tried them.[/QUOTE]

He may not have had them when you tried them before. Ulcers can develop in a matter of a day or two depending on the situation, and some horses (I can’t find the link to the study) have developed ulcers in a 200 mile trailer ride.

[SuckerForHorses]

[QUOTE=Cody;6277408]
Ok, I bought the BPR to try after I had my boy scoped and knew for sure he had an ulcer. Followed the instructions to the letter. Had him rechecked this week. The ulcer hasn’t gotten any worse, nor any better. So I guess I’ll just finish out what I have and wait to reorder.[/QUOTE]

Did you also alter his management to further help prevent/heal them? More turnout? More/unlimited hay? Low starch concentrate? Limit stress? Etc?

[islgrl]

I tried Pop Rocks. After one week I saw no change whatsoever. I am sucking it up and going for GastroGuard. I know it can take longer than a week, but on the days he has been given sucralfate he clearly feels better, so I have decided I need the big guns.

I had already ordered the canadian prerace tubes because I wanted to fill the gap batween when I ordered the remaining 80 packets and then realized I didn’t want to keep risking a treatment that didn’t work. I cancalled my abler order, but the canadian one had shipped as of Monday. I contacted them to cancel or return and they told me I can’t return so now I have 14 tubes of the candian stuff on the way and I am not convinced it works. I’m not sure what to do with it…

[deltawave]

Sucralfate works by an entirely different mechanism than omeprazole. Feeling better on sucralfate does not mean omeprazole is not working . . . the one coats the ulcer (theoretically relieving pain) while the other prevents more acid from happening thereby allowing the ulcer to heal. Omeprazole is NOT a pain reliever in any way, shape or form and instantaneous relief with this drug does not happen with ulcers. Declaring it a “failure” because the horse does not immediately feel better is not logical.

[islgrl]

DW - I know they work differently. (My point in mentioning the sulcralfate was that I KNOW the issue is ulcers - I made the point in my head but not in my post - sorry…)

I also know that its entirely possible that in 1 more day, or 2 more days I would have seen a difference. I made a decision, to ease my mind, to stop the trial and go with what I know for a fact works. It was not an easy decision, and it may not be the best decision for my wallet, but it will be a good decision for my horse and will make me feel that I am leaving nothing to chance.

[SuckerForHorses]

[QUOTE=islgrl;6277832]
I tried Pop Rocks. After one week I saw no change whatsoever. I am sucking it up and going for GastroGuard. I know it can take longer than a week, but on the days he has been given sucralfate he clearly feels better, so I have decided I need the big guns.

I had already ordered the canadian prerace tubes because I wanted to fill the gap batween when I ordered the remaining 80 packets and then realized I didn’t want to keep risking a treatment that didn’t work. I cancalled my abler order, but the canadian one had shipped as of Monday. I contacted them to cancel or return and they told me I can’t return so now I have 14 tubes of the candian stuff on the way and I am not convinced it works. I’m not sure what to do with it…[/QUOTE]

One week is DEFINITELY NOT ENOUGH TIME. I tried my mare on GastroGard for 8 days, full tube, with NO improvement whatsoever, so the vet assumed she did not have ulcers. $$$ later and finally a trip to the clinic, she had severe ulcers. Sometimes it takes more than a week. My mare was on UlcerGard, 1 tube daily for 28 days, immediately when we discovered her ulcers. It wasn’t until the 30th day that she even seemed better. BUT, we rescoped and the ulcers were healed, so obviously that was not why she didn’t seem better. Dont’ discredit something after one week. www.photobucket.com/ulcers They were bad. No wonder a week didn’t make her feel “much better”

[KrazyTBMare]

This is probably answered on this thread but Ive tried reading through the posts but theres just a lot of info on here.

I had my mare on 3 sachets a day of the pop rocks for 5.5 weeks and then bumped it down to 2 sachets a day 1.5 weeks ago.

I did the trial and after about the 5th day I did notice the pacing of the fence line was not as bad.

Of course by the time I got the additional 80 sachets, she had reverted back to her pacing constantly, being grumpy, etc. It took a little longer to see a positive result the second time but after about 2 weeks the pacing was almost totally gone. After 3 weeks, she would not pace at all (she would pace before meals - even up to 2-3 hours prior to the meal with free choice hay, nice grass pastures with 22 hr turn out) even if I got home late. She is more relaxed in her stall for dinner. Shes nicer to my gelding. Poops are better formed. Just really great results and I am very pleased.

My question is in regards to suggestions on continued dosing. She is a very internalizing horse anyways, has a tendency to pace/weave if stressed, etc. A big stresser to her was not being able to go to the paddock behind the barn. I have since adjusted the fencing and they have access to that area as well (just put the round pen panels up so they cannot go to the fence to physically socialize with the neighbors horses as that makes both of mine goes fruit bat crazy).

After 11 yrs of ownership, I finally have her figured out and she is healthier mentally and physically than ever before. I am worried about lowering the dose and having a flare up, etc but dont want to keep her on 2 sachets if not needed esp to help with cost, etc.

So what has everyone been doing as far as maint. dosing esp for more highly prone horses?