The Badminton XC course will definitely test the bravery of the horses. That’s quite a course design and Mary King’s reaction to it was sweet. You could see she was pleased.
I liked her comment that horses who are a little “precious” will have a hard time with the XC .
I watched a course walk with Eric Winter and Lucinda Green. She also said “precious” horses were going to have some trouble.
I liked the course for the most part. He used terrain and line more often, rather than skinnies from drop fences. And the bravery tests are reminiscent of the old days. We’re going to see some true “Badminton horses” shine in a few weeks!
So when we go to a local show at an eventing barn should we ban the boarders from competing since they’ve schooled the fences?
Ban people from schooling XC period if those fences are ever allowed in competition? No more schooling days just in case someone might not be able to make it?
Ban people from entering a show grounds if that show grounds will eventually be used for a recognized event?
Ban trainers from competing owner’s green horses to give them miles? Ban trainers from riding horses period?
Ban people from buying a horse already going Prelim?
What happens to eventing if we get busy leveling the playing field so nobody has an advantage? Everyone gets handed a unstarted 3yo of indiscriminate breeding and told “best of luck!”?
You really don’t see any difference between schooling cross country obstacles at a venue a couple months before an event, and schooling the stadium fences exactly as they’ll be set for the competition less than 24 hours before you compete?
You really don’t see the difference between the trainer riding the horse a couple times a week at home, versus the trainer schooling the horse over the fences in the warmup?
You really don’t see the difference between buying and competing a horse that has gone prelim before, versus having the trainer school your horse over every fence you’ll jump in competition the day before?
The playing field has never been and never will be perfectly level, but that doesn’t mean that adding more jump rounds and “prep” to our horses’ competition schedules is a positive thing for our sport.
Considering how many times I’ve seen people trash talk other people who purchase horses already successful at a level they want to compete in? “Oh she only won because that horse came from a pro who had it going Prelim” No.
People are always going to have more advantages than me. Better horses, more training, more money, more chances to school. If I got hung up on the advantages other people have over me, then I’m not having any fun.
I appears you haven’t evented very long. Yes, there was a time when courses were closed from even those who were at the facilities for a given period before the horse trial while the course was built. Course closure dates were listed on the Omibus. When I was on the organizing committee for the old Colorado Horse Park we would close the course 6 weeks ahead of the competition so we could build/modify the courses.
There were more restrictions on what “trainers” could and couldn’t do either. But there were also far fewer “trainers” out there.
You are not looking at this sport from a historical perspective. Again, back to the intent of what this sport was versus what it is now.
@Willesdon, as for Badminton, yes, and you see them bringing back so old school fences such as the broken bridge. I remember when we would see those on Preliminary courses. I know you understand my point. However, these tests will be far a fewer now as the other levels will focus on ridability/increased number of entries/rounds over everything else at all the other levels.
I’m aware of the history of eventing. I thought we were talking about people having advantages and not about kicking it old school.
And I thought we were talking specifically about whether people should be schooling the course at recognized competitions, not about any conceivable advantage somebody might have over others.
Life (and eventing) will never be perfectly fair, but schooling rounds are a “fix” to something that wasn’t broke to be begin.
I think it s location specific. I have been eventing for a long time (first recognized HT in 1970 or 71, then a 10 year break for college and grad school), maybe not quite as long as you. In the early 80s the Difficult Run PC HT ( VA) took place in Frying Pan Park (a county park), and the course was open for schooling up until the Wednesday before the competition.
On the other hand, there were (and still are) plenty of courses that are never open for schooling, or are open for schooling for one day, shortly AFTER the competition.
Schooling rounds are often a fix to keeping shows running by getting enough entries in to get the bills paid. Eliminate the extra income by offering schooling rounds and you might kill some shows for the sake of making sure people are on level playing fields.
I’m sorry. It was Lucinda Green, not Mary King.
Fair enough. Making money to keep events running is the one worthwhile reason I can think of to do it… However, I’d just as soon have them charge whatever it is they need to make ends meet via the regular entry/stall/ground fees, even if it means my entry fees cost a bit more. If they want to offer the chance to school, it could be done at the end of the event.
I’m a little confused as to why you’re arguing so adamantly in favor of schooling the course at recognized events, since you seemed to initially think I was mistaken that any recognized events even allowed practice rounds. If they’re an unambiguously good thing for the sport, why wouldn’t you expect them to be something that is regularly offered?
I agree with @Sticky_Situation and @RAyers.
The usual protocol at local CTs and Starter Trials is to offer “schooling SJ rounds” after your competition round; this allows you to troubleshoot if you had issues, and get another practice round under your horse’s belt without the pressure of it counting - a win/win.
It also allows the shows to make more money, pretty painlessly. People are more than happy to pay for the opportunity to jump around again and apply any necessary “fixes“, and since we are a one round and done sport, it also has the advantage of being more like a jumper show in that you get another course done at the same venue. This can be especially beneficial for green horses/riders (or for horses who are a little looky or backed off or have SJ issues in general), and riders who are looking to work out the kinks without getting an “unfair advantage“; this is not a sport where you are supposed to practice and work out the kinks before competing - the expectation is that you do that at home, or while schooling off property and/or going to schooling shows.
At the majority of HTs I go to in Area 2, cross-country courses are not open before the competition for obvious reasons!
Though it’s not necessarily dumbing us down (and transforming us into the “H/J model“), It still seems to run counter to the spirit of eventing, at least IMHO.
and forget putting in more training and just waiting to show until you are ready right. So many riders want\ to be able to show and move up the levels, but a lot don’t want to put the work in to do it successfully. They want to or are just happy to just get around. So schooling the entire facility beforehand helps with that. Some day you will go to a facility you can’t school at though, and there will be a bogey fence you hate, and you won’t have the skills or training to tackle it.
It doesn’t bother me if people do it, I just personally don’t see how it tackles training issues that can still rear their heads later. To each their own. JMO
Hawkridge in Ontario had one at Training level. Was always a goal to jump it but the event stopped before I could 
Is “Practice Jumper Rounds at Rated Horse Trials” a better clarification of the thread?
In our area schooling shows they may have practice rounds at the level after the class has completed. Not only does this seem to bring in some extra revenue, at the lower levels (and low level PC barns) those are the people who may not be able to totally polish at home. In a sport that is being pushed out by developers etc etc- I think this is great for schooling shows. I say that because our local horse park does allow people to school and the eventing association has local schooling days etc.
So I think (?) everyone may agree that it can great at the schooling shows. Give people a taste for it, or I have seen “derbies” which was a fun introduction for me.
I’m not going to comment on the rated eventing, since I haven’t show rated eventing (yet). Full disclosure- I come from rated H/J land. My question being an eventing newbie and never having seen this as described upthread , - does anyone know WHY some of these venues are doing this prior to the class? Not talking about the ring acclimation at some of the big venues mentioned.
Have any of the venues said why? Is this a way they see S being able to continue the sport? Can old school eventers get behind it if it means saving the sport?
Here’s a new update: recognized event is now offering paid schooling stadium and dressage rounds on Thursday, actual dressage Friday and both Stadium and Xc on Saturday for the three lower levels. Nothing on Sunday, and Monday is a national holiday.
Meaning: people now need to take another day off work and “waste” the additional holiday weekend days that could have been used competing. I’d love to know why they thought all that was a good idea.
I don’t know where this event is taking place, but this (as an amateur who works from 9-5 M-F) would actually be a selling point for me.
First, I’d (probably?) avoid the worst of the holiday traffic (assuming this is an area where traffic is a factor) There’s nothing I hate more than driving through traffic with the trailer. Especially when it’s hot and my poor horse is probably baking back there.
Also, I HATE working the day after I get back from a horse show. I’m usually getting home late and sleep deprived, and I’d like to have a day to decompress before I have to go back to work.
And finally, I want to spend some holiday weekends with my friends and family. It’s a nice way to have both a social life and get to compete. You can have it all!
All that said, I work a corporate job with a fairly generous vacation policy, and I COMPLETELY understand the other perspective about using more PTO for showing. Just wanted to share my thoughts anyways.
I believe this is the case at Twin Rivers this year (as it has been in the past). And, as an ammy with a corporate job, I’m fine with it. Not only is it often hotter than the blazes at Twin in July, which leads to lower entry numbers, like luckycricket123 says, it’s nice to sometimes have 1 more day after an event to recover.
I wish all of our events were 2-days (Fri/Sat). In our Area, nearly all of our shows are 3 days - so we’re almost always traveling either Wednesday night or Thursday morning to get to the shows that run Friday/Saturday/Sunday. Most of us travel hundreds of miles as well. I can’t tell you how many meetings and calls I’ve taken from my dressing room or from a chair near the barn.
Re the pre-show schooling rounds, those are only available at some events for the lower levels and they are not over the same courses as the competition, or even the same jumps. All the jumps are moved and courses re-set. Some aren’t even in the same arena. Like someone else said above, our opportunities to school and jump offisite are less than some of you lucky folks in Area II, for example, so if a show offers it, and my horse (who is green) needs it, I’ll take advantage. I don’t always do it, and don’t feel at an advantage if I do. It’s just a good opportunity to school over some fences that are away from home in a show atmosphere.
Maybe it’s not “old school”, but if it provides a safe opportunity for people to get experience that is open to everyone, I see no harm.
All true. There’s a reason that there used to be a perception that HJ was the sport for professionals and Eventing was for talented amateurs. The reason was that there was almost no way to make a living in Eventing. The changes since the end of true long format have been welcomed by the professionals because it lets them earn a living.
Almost everything I see bemoaned in horse sport as disappearing (horsemanship, barn rats, do-it-yourselfness, ability to train horses, basic veterinary skills) are an outgrowth of the professional business model. The more we can do for ourselves, the less we have to pay someone else to do it. Practice jumper/xc rounds close to competition are just an extension of that. (sloping off to my cave of cynicism now)
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