Pricing question

[Caligirl83]

@pluvinel

I would agree about the “critically endangered.” It used to be all begining riders did a little bit of everything…jumping and flatwork. I am not around young riders, so some of you out there may have better insights. I don’t know the current riding programs, but with all the current protective parenting I wonder if kids are allowed to fall off or if perhaps insurance companies that don’t allow some of the exercises that were typically done in the past.

It seems there are pockets of these skills taught…seems to be mainly in the eventing world. Here is an interesting article in eventing nation. The seat of the rider tandem jumping 3 horses is outstanding
https://eventingnation.com/terrifying-

So I was doing these exercises as a young rider in the 90s, and as a young adult in the 2000s and early 2010s. In Hunter jumper world .

But… for safety you have to have the right horse and rider combinations and the right experienced groundsperson to set up the exercise. And these were all with pretty militaristic old school trainers who wouldn’t pass the woke tests of today… these trainers in Hunter jumper land are still out there. But hard to find and usually pretty selective about clients.

The poster above is correct about the risk involved and helicopter parents and lawyers… but it’s also the court of public opinion and social media maybe that makes the trainers of today hesitate at schooling the up & coming generations the way they were schooled.

Or maybe the problem really is that anybody can just tack up a shingle and call themselves a trainer.

Hard to tell….

[pluvinel]

@Caligirl83

So I was doing these exercises as a young rider in the 90s, and as a young adult in the 2000s and early 2010s. In Hunter jumper world .

But… for safety you have to have the right horse and rider combinations and the right experienced groundsperson to set up the exercise. And these were all with pretty militaristic old school trainers who wouldn’t pass the woke tests of today… these trainers in Hunter jumper land are still out there. But hard to find and usually pretty selective about clients.

The poster above is correct about the risk involved and helicopter parents and lawyers… but it’s also the court of public opinion and social media maybe that makes the trainers of today hesitate at schooling the up & coming generations the way they were schooled.

You are showing you age…the 1990’s was 30 years ago…my how time flies.

I think the world has changed. Don’t know if it is social media or what but recently people seem a lot more “thin skinned” than I recall in past times…maybe it wasn’t amplified as much.

Example: I was being “eyes on the ground” for a friend…same as she does for me. We are both in the same frame of expectations for our horses and our riding. We are both in our 70’s. I was making observations about her riding and making suggestions. Some people were obviously watching as railbirds. My friend came up to me and said after we were done, Ms So-and-So had come to her and asked, “How can she (friend) let me talk to her (friend) that way.” I spoke as I would normally when instructing anyone on a horse. Who knows what I said that got someone’s dander up.

So I can see how trainers can be selective about clients and totally agree that you need the right horse-rider combinations and educated groundspeople. I believe there was an eventer who had a post on FB about how social media can destroy a trainer.

[SpicyPRE]

I think some of the techniques of the old school trainers were amazing and some were quite frightening. However, I do think that we need better trainers today who focus on true horsemanship and the basics. Trainers make the majority of their $$ at shows and push their clients in that direction as quickly as possible.

[Carried_Away]

Former equine insurance agent here - normally the bill of sale is justification for the horse’s value if you insure for the purchase price. You don’t have to prove the horse’s value unless you bump the insured value up after show results/training expenses have accumulated.

I agree on the loss of use comments, not worth it and incredibly hard to prove and be paid out on (although the horse will not be euthanized in the case of a LOU claim…).

[poltroon]

I don’t know how this thread turned into “kids these days” but honestly programs with lesson horses are now becoming extremely rare. Without them it is very challenging to do some of the lessons we did as kids.

[pluvinel]

@aa1977 do you have an update into what you decided? I know several of us dinosaurs derailed your thread with reminiscences of “back in the old days.”

I am guilty derailing participant, but hopefully we can get on track to your question of what is a schoolmaster worth.

[Caligirl83]

@pluvinel

You are showing you age…the 1990’s was 30 years ago…my how time flies.

I think the world has changed. Don’t know if it is social media or what but recently people seem a lot more “thin skinned” than I recall in past times…maybe it wasn’t amplified as much.

Omg @pluvinel you are right… is this what it feels like to suddenly realize one is old??!! Yet I can still remember being 16 yrs old like it was yesterday…

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Also, “back in the day” there were plenty of timid kids like myself who got alienated from riding because of cruel instructors who didn’t know how to teach kids who weren’t insanely brave and obedient.

In other sports people do, especially as adults, there isn’t this attitude that “if you don’t pursue it at the highest level, strive to achieve excellence every day, and risk life and limb, you don’t deserve to play.” I mean, yes, occasionally you’ll run into attitudes like “if you haven’t run a marathon, you’re not a real runner, people who run thirty minute 5Ks are losers,” but it’s shouted down and frowned upon, as well it should be. But in the equestrian world, there is still that attitude, if people post ISO ads for a horse that is ammie-friendly.

[Knights_Mom]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

Also, “back in the day” there were plenty of timid kids like myself who got alienated from riding because of cruel instructors who didn’t know how to teach kids who weren’t insanely brave and obedient.

In other sports people do, especially as adults, there isn’t this attitude that “if you don’t pursue it at the highest level, strive to achieve excellence every day, and risk life and limb, you don’t deserve to play.” I mean, yes, occasionally you’ll run into attitudes like “if you haven’t run a marathon, you’re not a real runner, people who run thirty minute 5Ks are losers,” but it’s shouted down and frowned upon, as well it should be. But in the equestrian world, there is still that attitude, if people post ISO ads for a horse that is ammie-friendly.

That’s awful because sports are different things to different people. I’m rather fond of the less ambitious as often they are kinder on their horses. And eachother.

[Incantation]

My friend, who is getting back into riding after a long hiatus, was introduced to my usual riding partner today. She explained that she knew me from me giving her 8 yo riding lessons. That was 30 years ago. Talk about feeling old. Seems like last week!

[Caligirl83]

@Knights_Mom

@Impractical_Horsewoman

In other sports people do, especially as adults, there isn’t this attitude that “if you don’t pursue it at the highest level, strive to achieve excellence every day, and risk life and limb, you don’t deserve to play.” I mean, yes, occasionally you’ll run into attitudes like “if you haven’t run a marathon, you’re not a real runner, people who run thirty minute 5Ks are losers,” but it’s shouted down and frowned upon, as well it should be. But in the equestrian world, there is still that attitude, if people post ISO ads for a horse that is ammie-friendly.

That’s awful because sports are different things to different people. I’m rather fond of the less ambitious as often they are kinder on their horses. And eachother.

I think in life and in sports, not just horses, one has to find one’s tribe. The ultra Ironman types of the horse world (or insert other sport/hobby/musical instrument etc) don’t do well with the casual recreational person, and vice versa. There’s a lot of gate keeping type of attitudes in everything from horses to skiing to golf etc… which I think is detrimental if a sport needs a grassroots base with an easy way to get started.

I suppose the problem arises in sports where there is a non human partner (or a child)… because then the role of safety and novices getting in over their head can get dangerous fast. I suppose I see the pros/cons of both sides.

And yes this thread got super off course. OP do you have an update for all of us? Regardless, I hope you are enjoying your leased horse.