Pricing question

I don’t think you need to be concerned with disappointing your trainer. In my world, the number of people who can spend $250K on a horse are few and far between. Your trainer knows that.

There’s a huge difference between people enquiring about the horse in Wellington and offering asking price for the horse. The owner and trainer may have learned they are asking too much. The owner may eventually want the horse off their pay roll. If they know you are interested and what you are able to pay, they may decide it’s a good option.

As others have said, it’s not a great idea to go into debt to buy a horse. They always end up costing more than you think they will!

How lucky you’ve been to get the ride on this horse for the year. And honestly, the owner/trainer are lucky they got a $50K lease fee. At the very least perhaps they could apply that to the purchase price.

11 Likes

My advice is to be very straightforward with your trainer about your financial limitations as well as your riding and showing goals. Your trainer’s priority should then be helping you find an appropriate equine partner – not keeping this particularl horse in the barn so that she can ride and show him. It might take a bit of a search but ammy friendly talented horses are out there for considerably less money than the owner wants for this horse.

10 Likes

“I should also clarify that my trainer is an angel and I 100% feel comfortable telling her I can’t afford it - I just love and respect her so much it breaks my heart to think of disappointing her! But I realize I also have to be fair to her (and the owner) and be really honest about where I’m at.”
This paragraph alone suggests that you are going into this mainly based on emotion. I think if you substituted the word mechanic or electrician for the word trainer and reread this you might look at it differently. At the end of the day, your trainer is a business person whose job it is to make a profit. I’m sure you guys have a great relationship but you are an easy gig for her.
I am glad you have a relationship with a financial planner. I would outline all the expenses associated with the lease and compare it to a reasonable purchase price and get their advice. I think he would probably be flabbergasted at how much expense there is for a single year without any equity.

19 Likes

I’m glad someone finally pointed that out. I’ve been reluctant to say this because I’m sure the OP doesn’t want to hear it (kind of like telling your starry-eyed best friend her new boyfriend is a jerk), but I find it troubling that the trainer is encouraging you, OP, to pursue this. As soon as the word “loan” came up, she should have shot that right down and said, “Let’s look for a suitable horse within your budget.”

Your trainer may indeed be a very good trainer and instructor but I’m questioning her motivations. Trainers can be manipulative. Maybe the horse’s owner is manipulative. If this horse’s owner is your trainer’s most profitable client and provides nice horses for her to ride, the trainer’s highest priority is to keep to keep that meal ticket client happy. You’re just the side salad. Maybe the horse’s owner is pressuring the trainer to get the horse sold at an unrealistic price. Whatever is going on, the trainer is not looking out for your best interests. It’s not your place to make her happy. She should be making you happy.

I hope we’ve talked you out of this. There are lots of other nice horses out there for you to fall in love with.

22 Likes

And as a reminder, the trainer may stand to make a good $30-50k off of the sale in commission on top of getting to keep the horse in training if it sells to you at that price.

12 Likes

Has anyone else suspected that maybe trainer has priced this horse so high and maybe overpriced so it does NOT sell quickly but stays in trainer’s barn
And on her payroll???

10 Likes

I had a long response that included this that got eaten by the internet. That or the owner really does not want to part with the horse, but for enough money they’d entertain the idea.

As others have said, if the horse did not sell in Wellington in the winter, he’s overpriced. Or, as happened to me, the trainer I sent my horse to in Wellington was happy to have him on her payroll and she did a terrible job selling him. It was back in the days of FB allowing sales sites. I’d answer the ISO ads that he was a great fit for with a link for his sales site, and almost invariably what I’d hear was “I contacted her about Dobbin and never heard back”. She always came up with an excuse for why this happened. I was a bit overwhelmed, 1500 miles away with no idea where to go from where I was already getting taken advantage of, and that is very unusual for me. The expression that many who know me use to describe me is “doesn’t suffer fools lightly and has a highly tuned BS meter”. Or my favorite “You think she’s blunt now? Wait until she doesn’t like you”. He ended up getting injured and now lives on my dime, retired. But that is a whole other story not relevant to this situation.

Also as others have said, there is a huge chasm between PSG and GP, especially if you would like to compete. Spanish horses are renowned for their ability to do the “tricks” but not necessarily in honest contact, through, or even correctly. They are by and large smart, and once they learn something “wrong” it can be incredibly difficult to un-teach it. Friend of mine with a PRE spent YEARS getting a clean change on her horse. Horse learned it late behind and it was incredibly difficult to fix.

OP - you do not need to post it for public consumption - but try to honestly and brutally determine whether this horse has some holes in his training or if the issues are more with your inexperience with dressage that are causing the score issues. This will have a large impact on his ability to get to GP. Also be honest with yourself about how much time you want to ride versus having your trainer ride to keep him at least where he’s currently at.

If you need to take loans out to cover his purchase price and continued board and training, you can’t really afford him. Horses spend 22 hours a day looking for new and inventive ways to maim themselves. Be very honest with yourself if the unthinkable happens and this horse injures himself so that he is only pasture sound, what does that mean for your life and finances? I know it is a tough way to look at it, but what does it mean for the rest of your life if you go through with this huge purchase?

Remember, this is coming from someone who realistically should have gotten $40k for her horse after commissions, but instead, I am paying $10k a year for him to be retired, unrideable, in Florida. Could I find a way to afford another horse? Yes, but I am already stretching my non-horsey SO’s patience with the money going out to support this horse.

9 Likes

I grew up in the US in the 80’s and did the same.

7 Likes

Me too! No reins, no stirrups, hands out to the side – then hands on your head!

1 Like

So are we dinosaurs?..Is this style of riding instruction now extinct?

5 Likes

Maybe :woman_shrugging: Hopefully not!

You don’t have equity in a horse for a lease, but does one ever have that much equity in a horse? Who might become totally unrideable for numerous reasons at any time? Horses are not known for holding or increasing value even though that can happen to the lucky ones. And the good trainers and sellers want to at least average out ahead and not in the red with loss of value. At least with the lease, you aren’t taking on the risk of supporting the horse long term. And an expensive lease might be worth it to learn on a pretty well trained horse. Not everyone is good at being a young horse trainer or is coachable and brave in the way they need to be to learn alongside a young horse. It can help to learn for yourself from an experienced horse before taking on a training project.

4 Likes

That’s what we did as well!
I believe it is extinct now :cry:. I don’t know anybody still doing this anymore :pensive:.
And it was useful I am still able to jump with a decent style even after decades not jumping …

2 Likes

Looking back on it we did some remarkably stupid things that any riding school’s insurance company would have a cow about nowadays.

And I got hurt, and scared, and I’m not sure in the long run that’s really helped me as a rider. I’ve never been terribly coordinated or much of an athlete so it was hard for me to keep up.

8 Likes

Yes we are. I think it is more critically endangered. We have had instructors bring some kids to our club’s HP. I don’t know if the horses they were on were owned by the students or the instructors.

I don’t think so- My daughter is 18 and did a lot of this type of stuff at lesson barns but mostly it was during horse camps. Sometimes is was because they werent very ‘good’ camps I guess and the kids didnt have much supervision and/or kind of talked whoever was supposed to be teaching them into things. Other times it was becuase they were good camps and/or had good horses that could be trusted for more adventurous stuff. Anyways, she has had a PRE (cross) of her own the past 4 yrs that she just competently showed at 4th level that maybe had 4 training rides put on him this year- and wow apprently we got him for quite a bargain :joy: at the time it seemed like a lot but now Im thankful everyday. We would have never been able to afford a 4th level horse. We got lucky- and I guess all those crazy horse camps helped more than we realized.

3 Likes

I would agree about the “critically endangered.” It used to be all begining riders did a little bit of everything…jumping and flatwork. I am not around young riders, so some of you out there may have better insights. I don’t know the current riding programs, but with all the current protective parenting I wonder if kids are allowed to fall off or if perhaps insurance companies that don’t allow some of the exercises that were typically done in the past.

It seems there are pockets of these skills taught…seems to be mainly in the eventing world. Here is an interesting article in eventing nation. The seat of the rider tandem jumping 3 horses is outstanding
https://eventingnation.com/terrifying-cavalry-training-tips-part-2-gridwork/

I saw this on FB where the poster blames George Morris for “dumbing down” the 2-point…eg. Instead of balancing on the 2 stirrups, the seat becomes a 3-point with the rider balancing on horse’s neck.
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=1072985674160382&set=a.624314112360876

2 Likes

Not many trainers take the time to teach balance and feel. I did those grids in the 80s and trust me if you didnt have balance and feel, you didnt stay on long. Remember having to do the grid with your eyes closed?

1 Like

Totally. I vividly recall the grids done arms out at your sides…knot the reins and go. Once you got into a rhythm… bounce…bounce…bounce…and it became easy. I vaguely recall the “eyes closed”…but I cheated and always cracked mine open.

The other exercise I was subjected to was to ride with legs in front of panels…walk, trot, canter…to show you were balanced and not gripping with your legs. I can’t find a good picture, but think how you would put your legs in front of the panels to adjust your stirrups. Drop your stirrups, sit deep in the saddle and keep the legs in front of the panels.

Best I can do image wise

1 Like

OMG. I peeked as well. What a walk down memory lane. I vaguely remember knee circles. One leg then the other at the canter.