what would you do if someone you were friendly with was competing as an amateur while clearly not being an amateur.
on one hand, i think its none of my business. On the other hand, she is trying for year-end awards and it really isn’t fair.
(And yes, I’ve tried the direct talk to the person approach)
Make an anonymous report to USEF, complete with all of the facts you have including where they work and who they work for.
Dishonest “amateurs”
This happens probably more than any of us are aware. I, too, have been in your situation, but chose to keep my mouth shut. I still think about this, and it has definitely changed my opinion of the ones I know who have done this. Basically, it’s just plain dishonest.
[QUOTE=Hampton Bay;4101954]
Make an anonymous report to USEF, complete with all of the facts you have including where they work and who they work for.[/QUOTE]
USEF will not take anonymous reports seriously. Talk with the steward/technical delegate at the next reckognized show you compete at or call USEF directly and talk to someone in the licensed officals department. You may have to file a formal complaint, which costs money, but your money is refunded if the claim is found to be true.
If you know this is going on and do not take the hard line with a “friend” or aquaintance to change this IMO you have no right to complain about any rule breaking people. Those who know rules are being broken and just let it slide and nearly as bad as the rule breakers.
First off, I’d make sure of my facts. There are few entirely amateur classes at dressage shows.
If indeed the person has admitted flouting the rule, I would speak to the TD at the next show you attend, making certain she is a professional as stated before.
What did she say when you approached her directly?
If you know this is going on and do not take the hard line with a “friend” or aquaintance to change this IMO you have no right to complain about any rule breaking people. Those who know rules are being broken and just let it slide and nearly as bad as the rule breakers.[/QUOTE]
I do not think it should be the job of the general membership to enforce the rules. That is one of the reasons we have an organization. I also believe there is a charge of a couple of hundred dollars to report this infraction. That certainly discourages reporting. There can also be “punish the messenger” repercussions.
IMO there is no easy way to deal with this, but I agree it should be dealt with. I don’t want to police other competitors however.
[QUOTE=papony;4102081]
What did she say when you approached her directly?[/QUOTE]
she said that the lessons she teaches don’t count as she mostly teaches kids.
she runs and owns a lesson program where she is teaching daily she even has her own website.
while I agree that there are not really amateur classes at dressage shows, she is trying to qualify and compete at the regional finals and go for year end awards.
she is not competeing against me - our horses are at different levels
I think if she has a website stating that she is offering lessons, you have a pretty easy solution.
Print out a copy of the website, highlight her name, drop it in the show office in an envelope marked ATTN: Technical Delegate.
That will take care of it in a big hurry. It will take the TD and the show management about 5 minutes to determine they have a pro showing as an amateur, and you don’t need to get yourself involved by name because the competitor hung themselves with their own marketing tools.
We had a well-known (and well-liked) young rider in our area who was teaching and training under the young rider umbrella. When she turned 21 (mid-show season) she neglected to declare open, continued to show in the JR/YR/AA classes. Oops.
She was written up and banned from showing for 60 days or something, small fine. Not a big deal, but she definitely showed Open after that.
Spectrum.
When you make complaints like this in any sport, you look like a total @$$. It doesn’t matter how right you are.
Particularly if it doesn’t affect you personally. You’re best to just keep your mouth shut (and avoid gossiping about it).
Her sportsmanship (or lack thereof) isn’t your job, and trust me, you will only look bad reporting it.
So far, in my very limited two years of showing, I have observed people I knew filing formal complaints against other people I knew. It was ALWAYS motivated by something else (person X’s mommy ticked off barn owner Y, so barn owner Y reported Person X or whatever).
You must be kidding.
Since when is looking good by not reporting a rules infraction more important than looking bad for reporting one ?
What kind of ethics is that ???
Again: “Sports don’t make character, they reveal it”
Case in point: last year at a large non-dressage show, exhibitors saw a trainer enter a walk jog class. She won, and beat children on lesson horses. No one complained to show management as they didn’t want to be black-balled. After the show, an anonymous letter was sent to a horse show newsletter, and the editor notified the show management.
After looking in to the facts, show management disqualified the trainer from the class, and the prizes were redistributed. It may not have made a difference to those exhibitors/trainers who stood by the rail and complained among themselves. But it made a huge difference to the kid who ended up winning the class.
Show management also asked that in the future, such complaints be made immediately…
as it would have been nice for the winning child to have received her ribbons then, and not weeks after the show.
If you see a rules infraction…speak up. It may not make a difference to YOU, but it may make a difference to someone else.
[QUOTE=rugbygirl;4102566]
When you make complaints like this in any sport, you look like a total @$$. It doesn’t matter how right you are.
Particularly if it doesn’t affect you personally. You’re best to just keep your mouth shut (and avoid gossiping about it).
Her sportsmanship (or lack thereof) isn’t your job, and trust me, you will only look bad reporting it.
I hear you!!!
Now the question is whether you want to be a nice coward, or a brave a$$ like someone mentioned. To be in the first category, you will be coward for all. To be in the second category, you will be a$$ for one, hero for others.
I personally would pick the second category. I will not be friend with this person any more but hey why do I want to be a friend with a person like that anyway? I would rather be cheered on by others who are too chicken to report. Besides, Spectrum made a great suggestion if you don’t want to be meddled with.
[QUOTE=rugbygirl;4102566]
When you make complaints like this in any sport, you look like a total @$$. It doesn’t matter how right you are.
Particularly if it doesn’t affect you personally. You’re best to just keep your mouth shut (and avoid gossiping about it).
Her sportsmanship (or lack thereof) isn’t your job, and trust me, you will only look bad reporting it.
So far, in my very limited two years of showing, I have observed people I knew filing formal complaints against other people I knew. It was ALWAYS motivated by something else (person X’s mommy ticked off barn owner Y, so barn owner Y reported Person X or whatever).[/QUOTE]
I agree this is a difficult thing, and it can result in the messenger being punished in any number of backhanded ways. It is frustrating, however, to see the AA awards going to the cheaters at the end of the year.
[QUOTE=Spectrum;4102242]
I think if she has a website stating that she is offering lessons, you have a pretty easy solution.
Print out a copy of the website, highlight her name, drop it in the show office in an envelope marked ATTN: Technical Delegate.
That will take care of it in a big hurry. It will take the TD and the show management about 5 minutes to determine they have a pro showing as an amateur, and you don’t need to get yourself involved by name because the competitor hung themselves with their own marketing tools.
Spectrum.[/QUOTE]
I’m with Spectrum on this one. Good solution. Must not be much of a pro, to even WANT to compete as an amateur. How will that work is she wins an Ammy year end award and wants to display the news on her website?
Sadly, I don’t think even a website is proof enough for the USEF. Though I’d certainly take a screen shot of it immediately. Since you’ve chatted with her, it might mysteriously go bye bye.
The stories I have heard from people who have filed complaints and paid the fee to do so (it’s not cheap) is that they have been asked to require proof in the form of copies of cashed checks, reciepts for services rendered etc.
If you can’t provide that, you will usually lose your complaint and lose the money you spent to file. You really might have better luck printing out a copy of the screen shot of her web page and as someone suggested, drop it in an envelope to the steward and office staff for the next show with a note suggesting they look at the classes this pro is entered in.
I’m shocked at her reasoning that because she teaches kids, the lessons don’t really count. That’s a very interesting converstation she’s having with herself to make it ok in her own mind.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do on this, whether it’s try to make a stand or back away. I’d understand both decisions.
I thank god that we don’t have this strange separation over here.
Everybody rides in the same class. :yes:
Why do you always find out such strange rules 
Theo
well guys thanks for all your help. its a weighty issue for me.
I think I’m going to put the print of her web site in an envelope to the TD with a quick note (I’ll cut the words out of the newspaper and glue them on like a ransom note so they can’t ID my handwriting) The note will simply state that this competitor should not be entered as an AA. She’ll hopefully listen to the show manager and just enter open.
One of the reasons I decided to do this is to hopefully save her real trouble. This is the 1st recognized show of the year so if she changes to open before she shows and continues to show open then she hasn’t broken any rules.
The other thing that is silly is that she has been riding this horse and taking lesons on this horse for 3 years. she is competing at TRAINING level (she’s competed to PSG on other horses and has a bronze medal) Plus she is cheating real amateurs out of their kudos…so no not much of a “professional”
the show is this weekend I’ll post on monday and let you know how it plays out
Professional competing as amateur - shamateur!
Shame on them for cheating the rules - obviously she doesn’t think that she is good enough to show in pro classes… even at training level.
It is now. Recent rule change.
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