ProForce XTN (vs Fuel?) Experiences/Preferences?

[Minerva]

Hello COTHers,

I have found a local place that is willing to order any of the ProForce line for me, and even willing to order a small batch and store it and I can buy bags as needed (super nice of them!). This is exciting with the limited feed and hay choices around here. I am thrilled, but now unsure of which one to commit to. All four of them look like good options (Fuel, XTN, Senior, and Fiber). I am leaning towards the XTN for this mare since she is an OTTB and strongly prefers textured feed, but I can’t find as many experiences with it as with the Fuel. Is anyone feeding the XTN? How are your horses doing on it? How does it compare to the Fuel?

She is a very hard keeper and will be eating a fair helping of it, so my only concern of course is some looniness. So far she has been unaffected by feed in the brain cell department, but since the store is going to be ordering a stash for me I’d rather play it safe if the XTN might cause issues. Right now I am mixing a pellet with a Blue Seal textured to get her to eat it all, and I can continue doing that with the Fuel if it is a better option than the XTN.

Since we were in California before she just got 20-30 pounds of alfalfa a day plus free-choice grass and a few pounds of grain and that kept weight on her perfectly. Now we are trying to find what works when you can’t find alfalfa outside of the compressed bales and your horse is picky as f-. :lol: (Seriously, she is the Goldilocks of horses. “This one is too wet, and this one has oil, and that one has Ultium and Ultium is icky, and eeeeeeeew, is that beet pulp?!” :rolleyes: )

[tazycat]

I’ve fed the proforce fuel for a short time like 2 or 3 weeks. My picky eater decided he no longer liked it. Been through several brands of feed ,and in time he decides he no longer likes it.

As of now he on just alfalfa hay and what grass he can find under the snow. He tends to be fairly lean thin.
you’re horse sound like mine drives one crazy. Hopefully she’ll approve of proforce fuel feed.

[Hilary]

It really depends on how much work she is in. Fuel has been very good for my thoroughbred who is in light work. He eats a small amount and looks fabulous. My easy keeper mare also ate a small amount of Fuel and was in harder work and it was a good choice for her. XTN is known as rocket fuel and the only horses I know who need it are upper level TB event horses in full work. If she is not working very hard she probably doesn’t need the XTN. Nutrena legacy is another very good choice. It is high fat, beet pulp based so keeps the weight of without too much energy.

[Minerva]

@tazycat

I’ve fed the proforce fuel for a short time like 2 or 3 weeks. My picky eater decided he no longer liked it. Been through several brands of feed ,and in time he decides he no longer likes it.

As of now he on just alfalfa hay and what grass he can find under the snow. He tends to be fairly lean thin.
you’re horse sound like mine drives one crazy. Hopefully she’ll approve of proforce fuel feed.

Sounds familiar! So if I go with the Fuel she will probably still need it mixed with some sort of textured feed to eat it all. Good to know. Yeah, I’ve never had one quite this picky. Doesn’t want it wet, doesn’t want it oily, no alfalfa cubes/pellets (though she loves alfalfa hay, of course), no beet pulp, no Ultium, no Sentinel Performance, no plain rice bran, no powders of any sort… It’s enough to drive one crazy! :lol: Oh, and ONLY Mrs. Pastures treats, naturally. Carrots, apples, anything else? NOPE.

@Hilary

It really depends on how much work she is in. Fuel has been very good for my thoroughbred who is in light work. He eats a small amount and looks fabulous. My easy keeper mare also ate a small amount of Fuel and was in harder work and it was a good choice for her. XTN is known as rocket fuel and the only horses I know who need it are upper level TB event horses in full work. If she is not working very hard she probably doesn’t need the XTN. Nutrena legacy is another very good choice. It is high fat, beet pulp based so keeps the weight of without too much energy.

Interesting. So do you think the Fuel might not hold up to hard work as well as the XTN? That will probably rule out the Fuel then. If you don’t mind, how much does your Thoroughbred get per day, what sort of keeper is he, and how much work?

[tazycat]

TC senior he ate for the longest period of time. Have the same issues doesn’t like oily doesn’t like wet feed ,and plain beet pulp is for sure poison. I’ve fed the XTN and yes it’s rocket fuel so avoid it. Mr picky ate it but not for long but long enough to have some pretty exciting rides on him.
Tried the legacy feed wasn’t a big hit same for ultium only a few days of eating either feed was max.

The proforce fuel kept mine on the thinner side in hard work. So probably won’t put weight on your horse with it being in hard work. Also have the issue with my gelding will only eat max 4 lbs a day. And more fed and it’s left in feed pan. The fool is getting nothing currently for feed he’s on strike for eating feed,offered him some sweet feed nope not having it. He’s just sure i’m trying to poison him.:lol:

[Hilary]

My TB when in full work (Training level eventing - he was being ridden 6 days a week and turned out 24/7) was getting about 2 qts twice a day of the Fuel. When he was laid up, and in the winter when he is trail riding he gets about 3 cups 2x a day. So it’s pretty concentrated. He gets as much 1st cut grass hay as he will eat whether or not he’s working and for a TB I’d say he’s a medium keeper.

My other mare in full work - Novice eventing - only needed about half a quart 2x a day of the Fuel but she was quite the air fern.

[Minerva]

Tazycat- I wish I could get TC Senior to try, or one of the Southern States feeds that I’ve heard good things about. Unfortunately the closest places are 70+ miles away, which is too far for me to justify unless I was buying a pallet. I know the exact attitude you’re talking about! This mare can tell if there’s something on her No List just by smell. She’ll sniff the grain, turn towards me to give me an utterly disgusted look, and then turn her back on both me and the grain to continue eating hay. :lol:

So yours went nutty on the XTN? I don’t mind so much for myself (other than only having a small indoor), but this is going to be her first year with snow and ice plus its a small barn and the BOs are already nervous of her 17.2 self, so I would like to avoid injury to her or them due to my feed choices. She does eat volume though (she was getting 21 pounds of Race Ready a day on the track) so maybe a decent helping of the Fuel plus her textured “treat” and some Amplify or Boost would work.

Anyone else with the same experience of XTN = loopy?

[Minerva]

@Hilary

My TB when in full work (Training level eventing - he was being ridden 6 days a week and turned out 24/7) was getting about 2 qts twice a day of the Fuel. When he was laid up, and in the winter when he is trail riding he gets about 3 cups 2x a day. So it’s pretty concentrated. He gets as much 1st cut grass hay as he will eat whether or not he’s working and for a TB I’d say he’s a medium keeper.

My other mare in full work - Novice eventing - only needed about half a quart 2x a day of the Fuel but she was quite the air fern.

Thank you, that’s really helpful! Four quarts is not much at all, so I might be able to get away with the Fuel plus Boost. Sounds like she’s a worse keeper and in more work but if she was on 12 quarts or so a day that might hold her.

[Hilary]

When you find a food that works well for them you often do not need to give them as much of it because it’s in line with their nutritional needs so you aren’t feeding things they don’t need just to get the quantity of the stuff they do. What work is your horse in?

[Minerva]

That um… is a “feeding less of it” estimate. :lol: I wasn’t kidding when I said she was a hard keeper. She can breathe and lose weight, so with her current training, well, it’s a struggle. If I could get her down to 12-14 pounds of grain (including the Boost) I would be thrilled. If Fuel or XTN could get her down even below that (in winter) I’d be a lifetime buyer for this mare.

[tazycat]

The empower boost at 2 lbs a day has put weight on my one gelding. He was pretty thin a month ago…not the picky eater ,my old guy.

[Hilary]

I get it - I had a horse who had a digestive tract problem and he ate a wheelbarrow full of various foods and 2 bales of hay per day and helpful strangers still walked up to me at shows asking if I’d tried the latest weight gain/hard keeper trick because he was always on the thin side. He also went completely bonkers on most foods. That’s why I asked what work she was in because they need different food if they are working and hard keepers or just hard keepers. Are you also trying to build muscle/stamina or do you just need her to gain some weight. She may also need some vitamin supplements to help her fully utilize her food.

I don’t know why certain foods made him crazy and Legacy did not, but he was a big TB who had been starved and it had a long term effect on his ability to digest. And he lived in NH where he needed calories for warmth, as your mare will in Ohio.

Dengie Alfa A is another good addition, as is beet pulp with no extra sugar, but I think you said she wouldn’t eat that.

[Minerva]

@tazycat

The empower boost at 2 lbs a day has put weight on my one gelding. He was pretty thin a month ago…not the picky eater ,my old guy.

That’s good to hear. I am hoping the Boost will make a difference. I had her on two pounds of Amplify a day and wasn’t seeing quite the results I was hoping for. I have to order it in, so before upping the amount to 4 pounds a day (at $37 for 30 pounds) I decided to try the Boost stocked by the local place at $22 for 40 pounds. It is 22% fat instead of the 30% that the Amplify has, but we’ll see. She seems to like it better.

@Hilary

I get it - I had a horse who had a digestive tract problem and he ate a wheelbarrow full of various foods and 2 bales of hay per day and helpful strangers still walked up to me at shows asking if I’d tried the latest weight gain/hard keeper trick because he was always on the thin side. He also went completely bonkers on most foods. That’s why I asked what work she was in because they need different food if they are working and hard keepers or just hard keepers. Are you also trying to build muscle/stamina or do you just need her to gain some weight. She may also need some vitamin supplements to help her fully utilize her food.

I don’t know why certain foods made him crazy and Legacy did not, but he was a big TB who had been starved and it had a long term effect on his ability to digest. And he lived in NH where he needed calories for warmth, as your mare will in Ohio.

Dengie Alfa A is another good addition, as is beet pulp with no extra sugar, but I think you said she wouldn’t eat that. ]

I had one previous mare that also ate a ton for her size. As I recall someone on here even did a rough calculation of the calories she was getting each day at one point. Turns out she had an intestinal tumor and abruptly died of colic the following spring at eight years old. Perfectly healthy to gone in about 30 hours, and we didn’t even euth. She just laid down and went. Thankfully this one is perfectly healthy, just of the hummingbird metabolism type.

She is usually in work seven days a week because she does not do well with any days off. I have cut her back over the last few weeks to hopefully get the last bit of weight I want back on her and just been dealing with the consequences. She really does LOVE to work. (Sorry- I just wanted to make sure you weren’t doing the derail/trainwreck thing about her working hard and a lot. You never know on COTH. :lol:)

In California I was giving her a vitamin supplement since she wasn’t getting much grain, but I haven’t been giving her one here. She gets probiotics (two kinds), joint supps, and of course gastro support supplements. If there’s something else you recommend I’d definitely try it. The good thing is that she seems remarkably level-headed even on actual rocket fuel (Race Ready). I suppose I could always ask if they’ll order a few bags of the XTN for me to try out and if she goes off the deep end switch to the Fuel.

The hardest part is the pickiness, since it rules out a lot of helpful things like oil or Cool Calories or Ultium. She is more than happy to let her meal sit there untouched if it has anything she disapproves of in it. The Dengie Alfa A looks really interesting. Have you found it in the US? Not sure if I’d be able to get it here but I’d be willing to try.

[tazycat]

Keep in mind you’ll probably need to feed more Empower boost then i’m feeding. Your mare is huge at 17 hands my gelding is just at 15 hands tall. So weight differences are quite big between my gelding and your mare. I’m sure you know that though…

[Hilary]

Whoa, Dengie used to be made in Maine! I had no trouble getting it. Looks like there might have been some trademark issues - try Lucerne Alfa Supreme.

(And I consider hard work for a horse to be upper/elite level eventing or combined driving where they need to do long fitness work at least twice a week and get ridden twice a day 6 days a week. )

[Edre]

My barn does Proforce Fuel with all of our hard keepers & the high competition horses. It seems to work especially well with hard keepers/gastrically sensitive horses (ulcer-prone) as it seems to digest well. My horse on an earlier grain was getting twelve quarts a day but on the proforce fuel we were actually able to go down to six when he was in heavy work/competition and 4qts when he was laid up. Like your mare, he was a horse that would lose weight at the suggestion of work it seemed! (And he was also harder to keep up when he was out of work than in - he would worry weight off without a job.) Likewise, my trainer’s competition horse had a similar experience. (Both larger thoroughbreds.)

I can’t speak to the XTN as we never used it. Best of luck finding something that works with yours!

[Minerva]

@tazycat

Keep in mind you’ll probably need to feed more Empower boost then i’m feeding. Your mare is huge at 17 hands my gelding is just at 15 hands tall. So weight differences are quite big between my gelding and your mare. I’m sure you know that though…

Nutrena lists the maximum per day at 3 pounds, so that’s what she’s getting right now (plus a pound of Amplify since I still have one bucket left). I’m hoping to see a difference! Speaking of weight, I wish someone would invent a portable scale that you could use to weigh horses accurately. That would really help me out with some of these hard keepers I get.

@Hilary

Whoa, Dengie used to be made in Maine! I had no trouble getting it. Looks like there might have been some trademark issues - try Lucerne Alfa Supreme.

(And I consider hard work for a horse to be upper/elite level eventing or combined driving where they need to do long fitness work at least twice a week and get ridden twice a day 6 days a week. )

Thanks! Looks like there aren’t any close suppliers, but I do have a store carrying the Standlee equivalent nearby. It looks like the difference is that the Lucerne Farms one has molasses and the Standlee one has canola oil instead. I wonder if I could just get a jug of molasses and add some to the Standlee to make it tastier?

By that definition yes, in hard work.

@Edre

My barn does Proforce Fuel with all of our hard keepers & the high competition horses. It seems to work especially well with hard keepers/gastrically sensitive horses (ulcer-prone) as it seems to digest well. My horse on an earlier grain was getting twelve quarts a day but on the proforce fuel we were actually able to go down to six when he was in heavy work/competition and 4qts when he was laid up. Like your mare, he was a horse that would lose weight at the suggestion of work it seemed! (And he was also harder to keep up when he was out of work than in - he would worry weight off without a job.) Likewise, my trainer’s competition horse had a similar experience. (Both larger thoroughbreds.)

I can’t speak to the XTN as we never used it. Best of luck finding something that works with yours!

Thank you for the info! She’s on a bit more than that now, so if one of these feeds allowed me to drop her down I would be thrilled. The good thing is that when she has big grain meals she takes her time and eats about 2/3, then eats hay for a bit and then polishes off the rest. This has at least prevented me from having to try to add a third feeding. If I could get her intake down though I would be really, really happy. Feeding this much concentrate just feels bizarre to me.

Sounds like the Fuel is by far the most popular. I might give Nutrena a call and see if they can give me more of a scoop on the XTN, or just order a few bags of each and see how it goes. I do like that the XTN has more calories and is textured, so I wouldn’t have to mix anything into it. I do also want to be considerate to my BOs though and not make them take up flying horse kites. :lol:

[WNT]

See if you can contact your Nutrena rep through the store, or directly. Ours is really good about giving a bag or two for feed trials.

[tazycat]

@Minerva

Nutrena lists the maximum per day at 3 pounds, so that’s what she’s getting right now (plus a pound of Amplify since I still have one bucket left). I’m hoping to see a difference! Speaking of weight, I wish someone would invent a portable scale that you could use to weigh horses accurately. That would really help me out with some of these hard keepers I get.
:

My gelding did gain weight on the TCS actually looks fairly good right now. He’s only currently eating hay because of feed strike. Old guy needs to gain more yet so might just bump him up to 3 pounds of the empower boost. But i do think Empower Boost should help,takes time.

I’ve done the pour molasses on feed to get horse to eat ,does work till it doesn’t work any more. Proforce has a senior feed also maybe look into that.

[S1969]

Have you ever evaluated/treated for ulcers? Picky, hard keeper that does better on alfalfa sounds like it might be ulcer-related.