Proud member of the Clinton Anderson "Tree Hugger Club"

Prior to yesterday, I didn’t know much about Clinton Anderson. I knew the name as a big one in the world of trainers doing clinics for problem horses, and I have been tempted to buy his DVD’s on eBay but never done so. When I found out he was doing a “Walkabout Tour” fairly close to home for me, I decided to check it out.

Today I’m quite proud to say I a member of the Clinton Anderson “Tree Huggers Club.” He took time out of his foul mouthed I-am-the-greatest-trainer-now-buy-my-stuff banter in order to speak directly to me and my fellow mamby pamby wusses in the audience, addressing us by his selected epithet, “Tree Hugger.” He said he was doing so out of concern for our safety and the grave danger we were putting ourselves in by not subjugating all equines to far more work than affection because horses are just that dangerous by their very nature.

At least three times, Mr. Anderson stopped what he was doing in order to address our group. He told us that he knew we were in the audience, and that he could feel us judging his methods as too harsh, and that we were probably upset because the demonstration horses were “not enjoying themselves.” As any good teacher would do, he not only demonstrated for us, but also took the time to explain that when he hits the horse on the nose or jaw with his training stick, he’s just “looking for sensitivity.” And that when the demonstration horse has raised marks on its hind end, that these were “knowledge welts.”
This show was free for children 12 and under, and by the looks of the audience, quite a few took Mr. Anderson up on his offer of this free tutorial in a variety of colorful words, with sh** seeming to be his favorite. To give him credit, he did also apologize on one occasion, after calling the mare a b**** several times, he switched to the word “wh***.” With great sincerity he exclaimed, “Oh my, did I just say that out loud?” followed by the pause of a skilled comedian waiting for the laughter. Had he stopped this way every time he uttered the words sh**, he**, da**, pi**, bi***, or sonofab****, we would still be trying to get thru the first session a day later.

The tree hugger writing this post is not a horse trainer and doesn’t even play one on TV. She tends to think of her philosophy with horses a combination of strategies to bring about a willing and safe partnership. She strives to be consistent in the ways she asks for things from a horse, being firm in the cues she gives and her expectation that the horse will respond to them. She seeks to offer the equine choices with consequences - the right choice will be easy and rewarded, and the wrong choice will be met with more work. She does her best to recognize and reward when the horse is truly trying, or intending to succeed. And in offering those consistent cues, she also tries to apply an “ask, tell, spank” approach, always striving for the equine to respond at the slightest “ask” level, but knowing that it’s imperative to elevate to the “tell” and “spank” levels when necessary. She has whacked her horses on the chest, barrel, or butt with a lunge whip or training stick on occasion.

Clinton Anderson’s demonstration was with two horses who were described by their owners as unpredictable, capable of biting, kicking, bucking, and rearing, with or without provocation. He pointed out to us all that they had gotten this way by training their humans, and that his demonstration would seek to undo several years of “bad training.” With that explanation, he demonstrated a philosophy that this uneducated tree hugger would judge as “ask” and “tell” being compressed into a millisecond of a cue that the horse is supposed to recognize immediately, and when “ask and tell” were over, they were followed by WHACK, WHACK, WHACK, and WHACK some more.

The female dog-horse in his second demonstration was handled by one of his “certified trainers” (who by the way are available to come work with YOU and your horse!), as Mr. Anderson narrated the actions and occasionally directed the trainer. He explained to us that his goal was to turn the horse’s world upside down, push all her buttons, and make it the worst day of her life thus far. On more than one occasion, he directed the trainer to “smack her in the nose,” or “hit her in the jaw,” and on some of these occasions he stopped to explain to the audience that these steps were required because the mare had stepped into the trainer’s personal space.

Words coming from the speakers spoke of the division of the body at the shoulder, with the head and neck being for steering and the ribcage and butt being for power and driving, but the demonstration showed us that we should steer a non-moving horse by strikes to the head and shoulder in an attempt to convince it which direction it should take, and driving is done only after it is moving. As the certified trainer progressed in this “lunging with respect” method, the mare escalated to the point of rearing. But Mr. Anderson assured us that this was perfectly acceptable because at least she was out of the trainer’s personal space. By that logic, it would seem that mere distance renders any dangerous horse harmless.

At the end of the lunging with force session, the certified trainer stood with the mare as Clinton Anderson rallied excitement from his audience of largely women and children. The mare stood there with heaving sides and a defeated look as the trainer flicked the stick-string around her back and legs and thwacked it on the ground near her. This tree hugger has seen horses like that before, ones who have been harassed and worn out so much that they just stand there dejected and take whatever else comes their way. They don’t even bother to flinch anymore because they are existing on inhales, exhales, and sensory overload. So, this tree hugger left the “Walkabout Tour” after watching just two sessions, and no interest in wasting Father’s day on being berated publicly by a good ol’ boy who displays his manliness by choice of words and physical abuse.

To be clear and fair, I will at least give props to Mr. Anderson for not losing his cool. The techniques I witnessed were pretty consistent and repetitive, and he pointed out that neither he nor the certified trainer were acting in anger at the horse.

Mr. Anderson invited us all to join his “No Worries” club. I’ll be declining that offer Mr. Anderson, as your methods of deliberate confrontation, escalation, and abuse do nothing but bring on worry for me. I worry for our future of human society if more people should be fooled into thinking that your constant verbal and physical insults to those less abusive than you, to females, and to equines alike might in any way be considered as signs of respect.

Disrespectfully,

A Tree Hugger in the Audience

The Walkabout Tour I witnessed was presented by these sponsors:
Ritchie
ADM
Vetericyn
Belen Country
Martin Saddlery
3M Vet Wrap
IRHA
Horse & Rider
P&P
Standlee
Smart Pak
Safe Gard
Classic Equine

Wow! It sounds like he has sunk to an all new low and should really consider retiring from live demos.

Don’t get me wrong, I have a mouth like a sailor home on shore leave for the first time in years, but there is a time and a place. And as a veteran of equine trade show for more years than I’d like to count, I understand the frustration of dealing with a public that is difficult to educate. But, if you are that frustrated, it is time to take the act off the road.

Anderson, Parelli, John Lyons, Monty Roberts, and others of their ilk are the 21st century answer to olde-tyme “medicine shows” or travelling rodeo cowboys who can “ride what you can’t ride.” It’s all about the showmanship, and impressing people who don’t know much–many of whom are in over their heads with a horse or two that they can’t manage. In the olden days, the whole ranch staff would sit on the fence taking bets and spitting tobacco while the manager trotted out the “rogues” and everyone prepared to watch the fun.
One big difference; the horses were considered “expendable” in those days.

Practically ANY book about starting or training horses, even those written for children 50 or 60 years ago, has more useful, truthful, and actionable information than any of these “round-pen wizards.”

The bottom line is that there is a certain tried-and-true progression in training horses to be useful work and sport companions, and when that FAILS it’s either because someone screwed it up, or they didn’t take enough time, and the horse needs to be “re-programmed” by a competent professional who can spend months, not minutes. A horse that can’t be trained to be useful the conventional way just may not have the temperament to be an ammie’s or child’s pet to begin with. Move him on and find one you can live with easily.

The whole mentality of “I can tame anything, no matter how dangerous” that sells these bozos’ DVD’s is a relic of the 19th century rodeo mentality and should be dismissed out of hand.

I attribute the whole phenomenon to well-meaning people who didn’t grow up with horses and don’t understand the basics.

ladymcts, I’ll bet you love the Road to the Horse, too! :wink:

Actually, I’d bet you don’t. IMO that is the epitome of the “medicine show model” that Lady E talks about. I mean a race to see who can get a horse under saddle first?!?!?! I’d love to follow the career of a couple of those “winners” and see what it took to undue what was done in those three hours (more or less).

I’m not a fan of any of the “gurus” who hawk merchandise, videos, etc. There are some who are less damaging than others but I’ve never been comfortable with “the lesser of two evils” approach to life. There are very rare times when such choices must be made; those times are never happy times.

There is, however, another side to this nickle. WAY too many “tree huggers” have the seriously erroneous view that horses are, in fact, just an analog of a “hairy, somewhat retarded child” vice a 1000 pound, one horsepower motor that has it’s own agenda. They steep themselves in anthropomorphic twaddle (like worrying about if touching a horse on the face is an “insult”). They worry about the horse “enjoying itself in it’s work” when there has never been any proof that any horse, EVER, enjoyed anything in life beyond breeding, eating, and being a herd member. To demand that they “enjoy” their work is to be very anthopomorphic. It also produces of huge numbers of dangerously mis-, mal- and un-trained horses.

I’m not a fan of “natural horsemanship” in any of it’s various incarnations. This does NOT imply, however, that I’m a fan of “beat them into submission” training methods.

I don’t believe in the “partnership” model. It implies too much “equality.” I do believe in the “team” model. I’m the captain and the horse is the crew. My job is to define the task, ensure that the crew is prepared to learn and does learn the task, and then decide when and where the task is performed. If the horse errs I have to figure out where I made the mistake. Did I not properly condition the horse? Did I not properly train the horse? Did I make a mistake in cueing the horse? The hard truth is that equine error is almost always borne of human error. No guru has yet embraced this model.

G.

[QUOTE=Guilherme;8200314]

I’m not a fan of “natural horsemanship” in any of it’s various incarnations. This does NOT imply, however, that I’m a fan of “beat them into submission” training methods.

I don’t believe in the “partnership” model. It implies too much “equality.” I do believe in the “team” model. I’m the captain and the horse is the crew. My job is to define the task, ensure that the crew is prepared to learn and does learn the task, and then decide when and where the task is performed. If the horse errs I have to figure out where I made the mistake. Did I not properly condition the horse? Did I not properly train the horse? Did I make a mistake in cueing the horse? The hard truth is that equine error is almost always borne of human error. No guru has yet embraced this model.

G.[/QUOTE]

You’re partially right. No guru (and many trainers) embrace the thought that they are responsible when a horse does something wrong. But put their ammy owner up and that changes very quickly. When the pro rides, the horse makes the mistakes, when the amateur rides, the pro points the finger at them.

Thanks for posting this. It was surprising, as many at my barn, including me, have watched Clinton Anderson’s videos and used some of the techniques. It’s disappointing to hear he’s such an ass. I moved on to Buck Brannaman, which has been helpful, but I take all of these guys with a grain of salt now. I agree with the showman analogy, many of these guys are just circus acts at these clinics (I saw one with The Mustachioed One, which was just like a circus act, nothing to learn, just watch them do clever things with horses for a while).

To quote Woody Allen “what an @sshole

[QUOTE=ladymcts;8200170]

The Walkabout Tour I witnessed was presented by these sponsors:
Ritchie
ADM
Vetericyn
Belen Country
Martin Saddlery
3M Vet Wrap
IRHA
Horse & Rider
P&P
Standlee
Smart Pak
Safe Gard
Classic Equine[/QUOTE]

Thank you for publishing that list of sponsors. I have never thought much of CA. I’m surprised by the expression “knowledge welts” and the news that someone doing a big public show uses profanity.

I’ve had enough. At least I now know where not to spend my money. Good lock to all the sponsors who have chosen their representative in this piss-poor horseman.

My impression is that he seems heartless, impatient, money hungry. I’m always surprised at how many people are quick to dump on Parelli, who, annoying marketing aside, are more humane and seem to genuinely care about horses, while CA is not called on for his harsh training methods.

Disheartening to hear this. When my horse and I were new to each other, I watched a lot of CA’s videos and the methods in the videos (some years back) resonated with my horse. I haven’t watched any of his material in several years but it sounds like it’s all really changed from what it was.

Our 4H club got free tickets to his two day tours twice, about two decades ago or so maybe.

Granted, I am hard of hearing, but he was not cussing then, not at all, or some adults may have mentioned it and not gone back the second day, much less the next time he came thru here.
He was, like all those clinicians, very quick and short and demanding of his horses, to the point of being rough.

We walked the kids thru that, explaining what was good and what we didn’t like, so it was ok.

I have heard that he is really worse now, not better, even more rough and demanding, but had not heard about the cussing, oh my, that is not good in public, really.

I don’t know why all those clinicians have to hit horses around the head.
That has been, for centuries, a sign of poor horsemanship, if you are so late to read a horse he is on top of you and have to hit him to get him to back off, much less around the head.

Some are worst than others, all have some habits that are questionable.
OP, thank you for the report, very interesting.

Knowledge welts? An oxymoron dreamt up to justify horse abuse masquerading as “training”. Same as giving a kid the strap and saying the “knowledge welts” on his hand are really in the name of furthering his education and making him a better person.

The man makes me cringe and is the furthest thing from a true horseman there is. That.is.all.

[QUOTE=mvp;8200537]
Thank you for publishing that list of sponsors. I have never thought much of CA. I’m surprised by the expression “knowledge welts” and the news that someone doing a big public show uses profanity.

I’ve had enough. At least I now know where not to spend my money. Good lock to all the sponsors who have chosen their representative in this piss-poor horseman.[/QUOTE]

This is an interesting and important question/comment/statement - are you (the general you) willing to not patronize the sponsors who support this a$$hole schmuck? Would you boycot SmartPak and your supplements to make a stand against this douchebag?

[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;8201046]
This is an interesting and important question/comment/statement - are you (the general you) willing to not patronize the sponsors who support this a$$hole schmuck? Would you boycot SmartPak and your supplements to make a stand against this douchebag?[/QUOTE]

Yes, I vote with my wallet, as a general rule. FWIW, I think money speaks louder than words in the America of present.

I already don’t buy Smartpak supplements because I think their business model is environmentally unfriendly. I have never bought them, not since the company’s inception, for this reason.

Oh, but I did get up in Smartpak’s grille about some bad math in their sales. I think another complaint from me about who they sponsor might send 'em over the edge.

I usually let well enough alone: Not spending my money with a “douchebag” like Anderson ought to be enough. But I’m also not willing to prolong his career by subsidizing the people who subsidize him. That’s because he sounds over-the-top bad in this case (and I think what he does to a horse’s neck is very, very damaging). It’s also because the list of sponsors reveals to me another way to vote with my wallet.

Does that explain things?

I do try to walk the walk.

Ugh, that must have been awful to watch him in action. :frowning: I saw him 15 years ago when he was on his rise up and he was decent back then.

If he employed any of those methods with my donkey Clinton would become enraged because a donkey has ZERO response to being whacked on, zero. Unlike the horse you saw who gave in a donkey will sully up, stand there and shut you out. It’s like the donkey starts humming a song in it’s mind and doesn’t know you exist if you bully it along.

As for sponsors, if I felt strongly about what I saw I would contact the company and explain why I was going to no longer use their product.

Poor you! You missed out on the ‘sex with sheep’ comments that we got. The kids here in NY got a real education that weekend…

[QUOTE=Timex;8201093]
Poor you! You missed out on the ‘sex with sheep’ comments that we got. The kids here in NY got a real education that weekend…[/QUOTE]

Seriously??? This guy is still teaching?? Yikes.

[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;8201046]
This is an interesting and important question/comment/statement - are you (the general you) willing to not patronize the sponsors who support this a$$hole schmuck? Would you boycot SmartPak and your supplements to make a stand against this douchebag?[/QUOTE]

Good question. for me personally, yes. I’m willing.

The list of sponsors I gave was what I could read on the arena banners - there may have been more. Of what I could read, these four are the only ones I have used previously. Standlee I was already not using anymore due to change in diet. But the other three I definitely still would have bought their products, so feel safe in saying that now I will avoid them.

I am seriously considering writing to these four companies to let them know my concerns. SmartPak is another that I would consider writing to, but I wasn’t really using them much anyway (my first and only order ever was last summer).

Vetericyn
3M Vet Wrap
Standlee
Safe Gard

Frankly, with someone as arrogant as many of the sponsored showmen (or radio personalities, but that’s a different forum), I think the only way to get your point across is to vote with your wallet. To contact the sponsors and say, “Your minion showed X behavior in a demo ring lined with your signs. I will not buy your product as long as you are affiliated with said minion and I will tell all of my horse friends about what I saw.”

Fwiw, I’m not only thrilled that you posted such a detailed report of the demo, but also a list of the sponsors. I’ve never been a fan, but I hadn’t realized that things devolved to this level. What a shame…