Proving Ownership—Could You Really Do It?

On the two warmbloods - yes. I’ve got BOS’s, registration papers, and USEF/USDF lifetime registrations in my name.

On my old man? I dunno… He’s a mutt we got out of a pasture 22 years ago this August. No papers, maaaaaybe my mom got a BOS at the time but I highly doubt it’s still around… I am in contact with his old owner on FB and I have 22 years worth of pictures of him so I hope that would be enough?

I have a bill of sale and all her papers, right down to her JC foal certificate. I’m so incredibly thankful that the trainer we bought her from was nice enough to hand it all over (she wasn’t going to originally but we thought we might breed her someday - and we still might!), I love knowing we have every single piece of her history and documentation.

Yes. Bill of sale on both. Passport, USEF reg, and microchip on the mare.

[QUOTE=Bluey;7042359]
When you transfer an AQHA horse in your name, you can ask they add a picture to the registration certificate, if there is not one there or the one there you don’t care for.
Just one more way to insure it is the right horse.[/QUOTE]

all but one of our Morgan horses are bays… one photo is all you need as they all look alike LOL.

My horse has a video blog. He has 172 friends who could identify him! :lol:

[QUOTE=clanter;7042601]
all but one of our Morgan horses are bays… one photo is all you need as they all look alike LOL.[/QUOTE]

Many also have a brand, but yes, there would be all twin bays with the same brand.
Not very helpful, is it.:lol:

I have all of my horses microchipped. Plus we have the bill of sale, registration papers, coggins with photos, and all of their medical records. Microchipping is one of the best ways to be able to prove identification of ownership of your horse. Hope this helps. :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Bluey;7042359]

Just one more way to insure it is the right horse.[/QUOTE]
Again, DNA, scars, photos and the like may prove who the horse is but they’re not proof you own him.

I’ve wondered this, too, since I’m in the same boat as the OP… I have registration papers in my name for my mare, but I got my gelding for free 15 years ago. No bill of sale, no JC papers transferred, nothing. All I have is 15 years of bills, etc. with me listed as the owner.

A bill of sale isn’t enough if anyone contests it. The type of person who’ll steal a horse is the type of person who’s ok with lying. You bos may be enough in the END, but in the meantime, your horse will be who knows where. The police can’t decide, a judge as to. If you’re home and stop someone from taking your horse and have the paperwork in hand, you’re set. If you’re off the farm and come home to a missing horse, all the paperwork in the world won’t bring him home until a trial happens. Make sure your bills of sale are notarized, end of story.

Of the 5 I’ve owned:
#1 - TB bought from trainer - nada (had him 20 years)
#2 - Got a BOS for DH’s TWH from the owner and a transfer of his registration papers (registered as a Racking Horse since he could not be blood-typed back far enough)
#3 - TWH came with his registration from TWHBEA, I never bothered to send in the fee to have it changed
#4 - Came to me from Australia via a COTH Giveaway in FL. I have a transfer card of some sort (from the sale barn she got him at?) and have emailed his breeder so possibly could prove he’s mine
#5 - Hackney pony given to me by my shoer along with his registration papers… which I have not bothered to change

So, all in all, Nope - cannot really prove any belong to me

Depends on who is challenging ownership.

In my state, if one spouse takes property from the other, then the police will say “let the family court judge sort out who owns it.” This is because only the family court has jurisdiction to divide marital property.

I don’t practice much criminal law, but I guess this also applies in cases like Cool Meadows’s, where the owner authorized the alleged horse thief’s access to the animal and the property. I think Cool Meadow’s situation is frustrating and heart-breaking and I wish her the best outcome. But I believe I also understand the process she’s having to go through.

If the former friend or trusted employee is willing to forge a BOS, then really it’s up to a trier of fact (judge or jury) to weigh the evidence and determine who’s telling the truth. Police and attorneys can’t do that, and in most cases we really wouldn’t want them to.

So that would be where the indicia of ownership mentioned by other posters - years of Coggins tests and vet records and FB pictures and friends who have known you and your horse for years - would come in. At trial, not before. Unfortunately, in CM’s case, both she and the alleged thief/forger were around when then horse came into CM’s possession. So that makes it an even tougher case.

Yes.

1 My horses are microchipped.

  1. I have a zip lock bag full of pics for each horse. Those pictures show very unique markings. One of my horses has a very unique marking inside his lower lip that nobody in the world would think to look for-----------but I have a picture of it:yes:

Brands are a good thing but they can be altered. Nobody can dispute pictures of a horse on your property and you show pics of the markings on that horse.

There are those rare horses that don’t have one stitch of marking on them. I think I’d have them tattooed, branded and micro-chipped just because I am anal that way.

[QUOTE=walkinthewalk;7045167]
Yes.

1 My horses are microchipped.

  1. I have a zip lock bag full of pics for each horse. Those pictures show very unique markings. One of my horses has a very unique marking inside his lower lip that nobody in the world would think to look for-----------but I have a picture of it:yes:

Brands are a good thing but they can be altered. Nobody can dispute pictures of a horse on your property and you show pics of the markings on that horse.

There are those rare horses that don’t have one stitch of marking on them. I think I’d have them tattooed, branded and micro-chipped just because I am anal that way.[/QUOTE]

This is a really good idea: to include a photo of your horse standing in front of your house with the house numbers in the photo.

My horse was free, but I have a bill of sale for $1 signed by both parties and a copy of the check.

I never bothered to update any of her registrations, so if you look her up it does not have my name as the owner. I should probably change that, but as I don’t do rated shows or AQHA I really don’t see the point in spending the money.

ETA - If someone wants to come steal my horse they are more than welcome. I won’t even come looking for her! :wink:

I’ve got the papers on both of them. I did have a BOS on each, but after several moves, not sure where they are. However I doubt that I would ever need to prove anything.

  • One is a nasty retiree who will never die (even though, or maybe because, I hope it every time I write a board check)

  • The other is a for sale broodmare wanna-be with issues.

There are many times that I would be thrilled to not be able to prove ownership. I’m pretty sure I won’t be that lucky. :wink:

Yes, I have the registration papers, bill of sale contract, copy of check. etc. I’m very anal about it. LOL.

Mortality insurance made me prove I owned the horse before cutting a check. Yes, I had to send ORIGINAL bill of sale and original registration certificate. So I suggest everyone get a bill of sale and make a copy of the check or say “paid in full cash” in the contract

I have all the requisite paperwork on my brood.

Not that I think any of their previous owners would want them back :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=drmgncolor;7041991]
Oh yes, the 75 mile thing… I forgot about that since she hasn’t moved over the limit since arrival… but even then the agent I spoke to said the most important thing was to get her inspected for sale or leaving the state. I do mean to get the permanent travel card though, once there is reason for me to do so. ;)[/QUOTE]

I’d suggest that a permanent card (or just a regular brand inspection, if you’re not traveling…but if you have the inspector out, might as well get the card) is worth it to PROVE, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you OWN the horse in Colorado. If your horse is stolen in this state and you don’t have a brand inspection on it, I doubt the brand board is going to do much to help you at all. It’s not just a pain in the ass fee, it’s actually protection for you as well. In Colorado, the brand inspection trumps any registration paperwork.

I hold permanent cards on all of my horses, along with bills of sale and their Jockey Club papers in my name. There is zero doubt as to ownership.

Just to add: Everything you have showing the horse has been in your possession for years is admissible to prove ownership. While the old adage “possession is 9/10s of the law” is NOT true, and we were all told that the first week of law school, having your horses trained to come to you, just like training a dog or cat (yes cats can be trained like dogs) is also admissible. So if someone hauls off your horse, you first go to sheriff, and then go to judge and get TRO (that’s temporary restraining order) and have the horse taken from the thief, put in a neutral barn at your expense, and then litigate your claim. My 2 horses are trained to come to me. And they are trained to do other things by me on command. (No they don’t obey all instructions all the time, the little *****, but they do recognize and call to me and obey me most of the time. Enough to impress a judge if necessary.

For example, my 2 horses know German pretty well. Let some local yokel lay claim, and I’d just call them in German. And Cloudy has his brand with part of his life # on it.

Another example: cloudy was chipped in 2001 when I bought him. Hattie was chipped in 2011 when I bought her. No one is going to have a chip earlier than those 2 chips on those 2 horses. So they won’t know to allege ownership from a certain date on either horse.

You just have to have a consistent amt of business records. In court, your business records and those of your vet and farrier are admissible outside of the hearsay rule.