I’ll basically agree with this, but the bigger question to me is what got us here and how we address it. It’s hard for me to get on board with pros like Prudent complaining about this when they helped construct/build the very system that encourages it and keeps upping the ante on the cost of trying to get to the top.
Unless she (or other “get off my lawn” types) wants to take a few shows off her clients’ schedule to take them up foxhunting so they can develop their eye, and teaches bareback lessons regularly to get them truly balanced and in tune with their horses, or makes her up and comers pick a horse off the track and learn how to retrain it for a year rather than going to shows during that time.
Yeah, seems like a BNT as big as she is should be in a position to choose whether she is part of the problem or part of the solution. You know, a “my barn, my rules” kind of situation.
It always floors me when I read about some of the EAP programs and the GM stuff at Wellington that make such a big deal about the participants doing all the care for their horses for the duration of the program. Not a new concept for any self-respecting 4-H or Pony Club kid who comes from places where those programs are implemented well and working as intended.
This is a good point, kind of, if you have your own property.
But boarding with good amenities is cheaper in Europe. Like, a lot cheaper.
Most riders I know don’t own a facility, either in the US or Europe. It’s expensive and unnecessary overhead for a lot of them unless they have (and want to spend) a lot of money on overhead and maintenance and staffing. Taking that into account, it’s way cheaper to board at a place with a maintained indoor and an outdoor and a derby field and a eurocizer and whatever else in Europe than in the US. And you can be at shows three quarters of the time and not worry about whose watching the yard. And you don’t have to worry about hay, or cost of hay, because that’s almost always included in your very low cost. Our yard in Belgium, with a handful of CSI’s within 30 minutes, and dozens more within an hour or 2 (40 minutes to Aachen) was 300 a stall, which included hay and straw, and would have included feedings if I hadn’t wanted to do it myself. Our yard in Holland was a little more, but they had no other business because they were overpriced for the area.
So board is cheaper, shows are cheaper, tack and equipment are cheaper.
It should surprise no one that so many young American riders are spending much of their time in Europe. I bet Cian’s cheaper than Katie too :lol::lol::lol:
Did it ever occur to you that POC are not “interested” in our sport because they often cannot afford it? The reality is that horse showing at the ‘A’ circuit and international levels is incredibly expensive and often the only people who can afford this kind of luxury are the 1%. You know who makes up most of the 1%? Rich white people.
So yes, horse showing is “inclusive” in that no one is going to say to a POC, you cannot be here because you’re a POC but as McLain said, horse showing has always been a sport for the wealthy and most wealthy people are white.
The backside in the 70s & 80s was VERY skeevy. My dad was not thrilled that I was galloping & I’m mainly white.
Back on topic, the kids I know are not like these AA kids I hear about. I agree with a lot of what Katie has to say but also agree that she goes off the rails a bit. And she plainly seems ensconced in her own little world.
Saying that the 2’6" divisions, ect. are not truly A show material is a far different thing than saying they shouldn’t be held on decent footing with decent jumps. That was the point of recognized shows to begin with–that there were certain standards to be adhered to, with respect to jumps, judging, and so forth.
If we still had a healthy number of B and C rated shows, it would be nice. As someone stated above, the farm team to use a baseball metaphor, could go with the assistant trainer to the B/C shows, while the boss took the ore advanced riders and horses to the big time.
And this would be a good thing, in many ways, not the least of which is it ought not to cost as much as the big franchise away shows.
Do I harbor any illusions that we will ever return to that ? Not really, but it sure would be nice.
For the sport to be non-inclusive overall does not mean all white people are against black/asian/middle-eastern/hispanic/etc. participating. That’s great you grew up in a seemingly non-racist area, or less-racist area, but that doesn’t mean the sport as a whole is “inclusive.”
As everyone acknowledges, horse sports are expensive. Sure, you can po-dunk around on a pony or once a week for fairly cheap, but what’s cheap to you isn’t cheap to someone else. Plus, isn’t the main point of this overall discussion geared towards the upper levels, not po-dunking around? The vast majority of wealth in this country, even middle class, is owned by white people. White privilege is a thing, and it affects literally everything, from one’s minor daily experiences to where they grew and what hobbies/sports/etc. they’re exposed to. Lack of money means lack of exposure and access to expensive things - like horses.
This inaccessibility for certain financial groups - largely made up minorities - causes there to also be lack of representation in the upper levels of the sport. Representation matters. Little black girls and boys don’t get to look at the top 50 or 100 American riders and see a bunch of people that look like them or their parents. So they look over at basketball, football, track and see themselves represented there, and that’s what they switch their interest too. My 9-year-old niece is mixed, and is very obviously half black. She LOVES loves loves horseback riding. She’s asked me before why there’s not many black riders, how she wishes there were. Then, I have an ex-boyfriend, who is black, and when we started dating and I asked him if he’d ever ridden a horse, his answer was “No, black people don’t ride horses.” And he’s not the only person I’ve ever heard that from in my lifetime.
My last jump instructor in Ohio was a wonderful black lady, really great to ride with. She told me about some instances where a new person showed up for their first lesson, and promptly got back in their car and left when they saw she was black. And this was in a suburb of Columbus, a pretty big diverse city.
“Did it ever occur to you that many “POC” were just not interested in our sport?”
Did it ever occur to you that plenty of non-white people are interested in equestrian sports, but society and “our sport” told them it wasn’t okay?
“Are there more people doing our sport today? Absolutely. There’s more access to it.”
I’m not sure I can agree with that statement. Anyone know the h/j membership stats for USEF for the past 10 years? Or number of horses registered? Are entries in the big divisions up?
Yes it’s expensive. Any anytime you price out the majority of the population, you are decreasing the size of the pool from which you can choose your international competitors. So now with a limited pool of possible riders, you have to find those that want to put the work in, can take the falls, and continue through young adulthood where many get married and start families.
I’m sure there are tremendous riders out there who never have the opportunity to sit on a horse. We see it in racing - a small athletic young man or woman is told, “You should be a jockey” and with a couple years of experience working with horses and riding, he or she’s a jockey and riding professionally. And got paid to work while gaining the necessary riding experience. So even if they don’t make it as a jockey, they still worked and got paid trying to get there.
The entitled tone of the article was what I have difficulty with. Of course showing is only for the very wealthy or those who will mortgage their home for their children’s sport. It does not make the author any more special because she
sees the talentless amateurs.
There are a few very hard working, dedicated top riders who were not born with the silver spoon - Eric Lamaze and our daughter’s trainer who is now on the US long list…no doubt way more normal people than I know. The desire comes from within.
The horse show world exists because people spent fortunes on their kid’s sport and then the kids drop out to go to collelge…many not learning any basics in horsemandhip.
Also: On the Pony Club wall of fame, many of the top riders got their start in good old Pony Club - Ian Millar is one.
Without going into the essay, I do not believe in ‘meanie’ trainers. The modern trainer is there to support, teach and encourage and build up their student. The old school way of demoralizing the student and then building up is from the military and has no place in modern elite sport.
Without going into the essay, I do not believe in ‘meanie’ trainers. The modern trainer is there to support, teach and encourage and build up their student. The old school way of demoralizing the student and then building up is from the military and has no place in modern elite sport.
We live in a world of entitled snowflakes who have never been punished for their actions or for their inactions. I’d like to know why the toughness that comes from the marine/cavalry way is not useful in elite sports where defeat is much more common than winning. Learning to lose and learning from loss is far more valuable than winning because someone bought you a faster car/horse.
For those who are upset at the idea that lower level divisions may not be appropriate to have at the A show even if you have the money to go play at the A show, the reason is really not personal. It’s just not a novel a concept that the A-rated shows are for A-rated, recognized divisions. As I posted above, I do see some value in allowing a certain amount of stepping-stone C-rated divisions at the A shows. But at some point, this got out of hand to (along with the mileage rule) the extinction of the B/C-rated shows and many local circuits. And the idea that you should be “entitled” to show where you want if you can afford to do so is even more elitist than an upper level rider saying the upper level shows are for the upper levels. Why do we have a rating system at all? Why not make everything rated and have a Stirrup Cup at Harrisburg? Because that’s getting out of hand and isn’t in line with how many other sports are run, on a national level.
I don’t currently have an A-show ready horse. For experience, I sometimes take him and pay as a “non-showing” entry. I have owned and developed some competitive horses in rated divisions in the past, but that does not entitle me to a pile of poles class at the A-show for the difficult greenie. The fact of the matter is that we are just not ready, and that is ok. I also grew up getting a lot of benefit out of the lower level shows with a pony that couldn’t do the step for the rated larges (but was super at the local and C-level) and a spooky OTTB who needed a LOT of mileage before he could put on his big boy pants and jump around a 3’6" course at Kentucky. I’ve never been able to afford the mega-circuits in time or money. These other avenues still gave me an opportunity to set competitive goals and work towards them, and I think that there is validity to saying that those who want to pay the mega bucks for the mega circuits to show at 2’6" and that’s the only place they want to show is hurting the sport. It’s maybe a side effect that those with these mega bucks may also not take the time for horsemanship, but that’s only a symptom of making SHOWING the goal and A-RATED SHOWING the only way to get there.
It’s also not true that lower level shows have to be at crappy venues. My local circuit (not subject to the mileage rule) holds shows at the same venue at the same time as the A shows here that have lower attendance and don’t need to use all 8 rings. Or on off weeks from the A circuit. Growing up, I attended some C-rated shows at venues that hosted some of the major 1-2 week A shows of the area, and this can still be found in some places. The mileage rule does work to keep some good venues off the table for chunks of time, and the money is also funneling out of those venues into the mega circuits.
The eventing world just might get even MORE popular…OTTBs are welcomed, people just get on with it and ride. All ages, all incomes and people help each other (more)- generalizing here…
I just don’t understand this attitude. I’m sorry, I know some of the richest people in the world. They have nice horses, often some of the best horses in the world. And they aren’t at the top of the podium that often. Do you think Athina Onassis can’t afford top horses? She really wants to be in the Olympics, but surprise! You can’t buy your way in. Athina knows this, not sure why anyone else disagrees.
I’ve worked for the poor rider with one horses who qualified for every grand prix he tried for on a horse he developed himself from four years old, placing in every one entered.
And I’ve worked for a dumpster fire of a rider with way, way more money than her Olympic trainer (who has since unloaded her) and she has to buy a 10k VIP table to jump the 1.30 badly at 5*s. I just don’t know what shows people are watching where they think the top classes are all being populated and won by terrible riders who all just bought top horses.
That’s not the sport I see, sorry.
I literally don’t grasp what Katie is complaining about, other than a lot of top young American riders aren’t training with her, and many are training in and with Europeans.
Oh, and her son is awful. She should work on him a bit more
I trained with several old cavalry officers. It was fine for me, but not everyone thrives in that environment. And given that there aren’t a lot of old school cavalry guys around, what we are really talking about is just being a jerk.
The reason I now object to the lower divisions is because my daughter did some of them and I paid for them. They are a rip off. It’s not at all because I’m a snob. I don’t think anyone should have to pay for a stall, braiding, membership, and training/travel fees to show below the children’s. I now just think we could have waited and done local shows until she had the training and the partner to jump higher. In fact, I could have put all that money towards a bigger/better horse and gotten there faster. Wealthy people (I’m not!) can afford to spend whatever so that may not cut much mustard with them.
But I can see now that there was another issue I overlooked and that is the really important skill of learning to delay gratification and learning that there are certain things you need to be at a certain level to do. We all wanted it now, now, now. But in our experience the rated divisions felt different, they felt legit. I can’t really explain it. They would have been worth waiting for. If I had it to do over, I’m not sure I would have A showed before the children’s. And now that I see divisions being modified, it makes me sad. There is a lot to be said for learning that you have to be qualified for something rather than just being able to go and sign up for it. And I mean no disrespect. These are just the reflections of an aging show mom kind of concerned about a pay to play culture intensifying all around us, not just in the horse world.
Why is it perfectly acceptable for you to take your “not ready” horse to these horse shows and clog up the schooling areas and stand around ringside with your “difficult greenie”, but it’s not acceptable for trainers to bring their inexperienced horses and riders to the same shows and pay to enter classes that are offered by management? I’m not being snotty here - I’m genuinely curious what your train of thought is that you think what you are doing is better than what others are doing.
I just don’t get why people get their panties in such a wad over who is showing in what classes at what show. Honestly, if you have that much time to spend observing and forming opinions about what every stranger in your vicinity is doing when you are at a horse show, you probably aren’t focusing enough on what YOU are doing. Use that time to improve yourself and your horse.
One last point - it’s great that some areas of the country still have local circuits that are well-run at lovely facilities with beautiful footing in the ring(s), but there are many areas in the country that simply do not have any local circuits of any kind. And the people who live in those areas deserve to show wherever the hell they feel like showing. MYOB.
@ynl063w Quite an assumption of you to say my green horse is clogging the schooling ring! You don’t know what I do with him while at the show and when he is or is not in a ring! Our A circuit venue is over 100 acres.
Part of my criticism of the current model is that there are no local circuits in certain areas because they have become extinct as a symptom of the overall problem. And no, people don’t deserve to show wherever the hell they feel like showing. If they are not qualified to show there, they don’t “deserve” to show there!
With the exception of specific classes and shows such as Devon where you have to “qualify” to compete, the vast majority of USEF shows require only that you send in your entry and pay your bill. There’s no test of ability until you go in the ring.
Honestly I don’t know what world you’re living in. Mine I think is quite a bit tougher for kids in just about every walk of life or every activity. Some things that were hard for us are easier for them, but a lot of things that were easy for us or not even a Thing for us are quite a bit harder for them.
I don’t think fear and intimidation and abuse makes the best horses and I don’t think it makes the best riders either. Training mammals is training mammals, whether horse or human.
I see - since people don’t know what you are doing with your horse on the show grounds they should not ask questions and just believe you that it’s ok for you to be there, but since you feel that some of the people who are actually showing at these shows aren’t deserving of that privilege, they shouldn’t be there. Got it.
The use of the word “deserve” when it comes to entering horse shows is so absurd. If someone wants to show, she simply fills out the entry form, pays her fees, and rides. That’s how it works. There is no “deserving” or “not deserving” involved. For the classes at the shows being discussed here, there are no qualification requirements for entering. And I don’t think enough unqualified horses and riders are slipping through the in gate at Devon, Harrisburg, or Washington to be concerned that this is ever a problem.
Is it possible that if you spent more time focusing on your difficult greenie, and less time worrying about what everyone else is doing, he wouldn’t be so difficult? It might be worth giving it a try - it certainly couldn’t hurt!
The qualification I meant was the desire/ability to show in rated divisions. I’m not saying there is not a place for unrated divisions, just to solve some of the issues being discussed, it might help to have those at more financially accessible shows, which will also mean disincentivizing the need to show in lower level classes at an A show.
This entire discussion is about what “everyone” in the horse show world is doing at this point in time. If you think the right answer for the good of the sport is to maintain the status quo and MYOB, then you are free to do that. The personal commentary is not necessary. What if I still owned my 4’ hunter? Then my opinion would be more valid?
