Puppy Application Rejected by Two Kennels

[Bicoastal]

I have sent queries to two Tervuren kennels. The first breeds high energy agility dogs. That was a long shot. She suggested a show-line breeder known to produce dogs who also participate in sports. That kennel rejected me, too.

Their reasons are my being an apartment dweller who works full time and has a back disability.

My wants are sports versatility, biddability, stable temperament, easy to reach but not heavy size, medium drive, some grooming, and aren’t on any apartment banned breeds lists. (I admire Dobes but that would make renting even harder.)

Gimme some COTH truth. In my area with a single income, I have no prospects of becoming a homeowner. Is there a breed for me? Or is an eager UD & MACH candidate automatically not an apt dog? I was very honest about my activity level and schedule. I worry my back disability is being misunderstood.

While a Toy (current dog) is easy in many ways and I have alllll the tiny-sized stuff, the bending HURTS.

This is roughly the email I’ve sent.
[I]Hi, my name is XXXX and I am interested in your breed and, in particular, your kennel. May I talk to you about the breed to see if I am a good fit? I am approaching you because of your success in agility and obedience, since I pursue those activities.

I have questions along the lines of:
A, B, C, D

I am happy to speak with you over the phone, if that is more convenient.

In a nutshell, I am an apartment dweller with a full time job that has some flexible scheduling and telework perks. I have decided on a two-dog maximum. I have a back disability that yearns for a taller dog that could possibly perform the service task of picking up dropped objects around the house. I do not need a service dog with public access.

Before driving a desk, I have been a vet tech and doggy PT assistant. I attend group class (OB or agility) twice a week and walk an hour a day. I understand a Terv would require more daily exercise. On weekends, I do something: hike or otherwise exercise (off-leash* when possible), trial, run thru/match, or travel locally to family or dog-friendly destinations.[/I]

[js]

High energy dogs in an apartment seems to me would not work or at least be the best situation for the dog. High energy dogs need lots of exercise, i.e. running, being cooped up in an apartment with no yard would probably not be the best situation or fair to the dog; which is likely why you have been rejected twice. They are concerned that the dog’s will not be happy in your situation. Look for a breed that is not high energy and is suited to apartment living. Get you a pair of those tong thingees for reaching to pick things up, rather than relying on a dog to do that for you, get a dog that will be happy with apartment life.

[Crockpot]

Agree with js, esp since you have a full time job.

What is your plan for your puppy while you are at work all day?

[LauraKY]

I have to think that most kennels and rescues will turn you down for a high energy dog since you work full time and live in an apartment.

[cowboymom]

I might be out in left field here, but I have a chi and I never lean over to do anything with her. I had to think about this but it’s true. She jumps up on all the furniture and onto my lap constantly so she’s always handy. We’ve worked out a deal where I pop a knee forward and she will run up my leg and into my arms on command. If we’re out and about she’s in a harness that I could pick her up by the leash in an emergency.

If the little dog is out of the question, I think I would keep an eye open for any random dog that might come along. What you ask doesn’t seem to me necessary to have a very specific breed and have to grovel for the right to buy a dog for a steep price.

Maybe I missed something in past posts (and it sounds like I did) but does it have to be that specific breed? With their appearance and propensity to be protective they might not intrigue every apartment manager either, even though they aren’t on a list somewhere.

[Marshfield]

Either a Sheltie or a Corgi might be okay in an apartment and be potential MACH dogs.

[Laurierace]

I think a sheltie is a great suggestion provided you can keep him relatively quiet so he doesn’t annoy your neighbors with his bark. They are vocal things!

[scruffy_the_cat]

If you like double-coated pointy headed dogs, collies (rough and smooth) are in the same height range, are often used as service dogs, and are far lower on the energy scale than Tervs. They need a good hour+ walking a day but sleep inside the rest of the time and don’t take up all that much indoor space. Very biddable. Very trainable. I am competing in obedience, herding, and conformation with mine. They are versatile dogs- might not be the fastest on the agility circuit though there are some lines that have much more GO- but with a very bad back I don’t know how MACH agility fits into that.

I am not a breeder but I would not rule you out based on an apartment- I live in a house that is smaller than many apartments. BUT… I would talk a little less about what you DON’T have to give to the dog and talk more about what you can give to the dog. I appreciate your honesty in your letter but what jumps out at me is the apartment and your lack of time and your bad back. If you are trying to sell yourself you certainly can write those things but play up more your long walks during the day and performance plans.

[jreventer]

Tervuren

There are laidback tervurens, but they are not the normal for the breed. I currently own three tervurens and they are very high energy. I take them out on hikes daily-I walk, they run off leash. I will walk between 2 and 6 miles a day (normally 3-4) and they run circles around me the entire time and are still not tired. They also go to class one to two nights a week and train at home as well in between classes. And go to work with me where they play with other dogs.

However, if you are willing to spend a good amount of time mentally “exercising” them you can expend some of their energy that way. I also always choose the highest drive/energy puppies.

With the one litter I bred, I would say I would have had one male puppy that would have done well with an environment like yours. He was very laidback and while he is eager to go and do things he is just as happy sleeping on the couch with you. We had one female puppy who went to a home who struggled initially with her energy levels. The owner’s issue was that no matter how much she exercised the puppy, the puppy wouldn’t tire and settle. She has followed our advice and it has helped a lot.

Have you considered an adult tervuren? Then you would have a better idea of their energy level and adaptability? I would look into breeders that breed more for show ring/pets as they will be breeding lower drive tervurens. Even a lower drive tervuren will be drivey enough for agility/obedience. Make sure the parents temperaments are rock solid. This can be a very reactive breed! If you get a puppy be prepared to socialize the puppy like crazy! And ask about health issues-ofa hips/elbows, cerf eyes, thyroid, epilepsy, stomach cancer are the biggest issues.
If I was breeding another litter I wouldn’t rule you out off the bat. I often find people with fenced yards just throw the dog out in the yard and don’t truly exercise the dog.
Maybe call the breeders versus emailing since then you can explain the situation more.
The ABTC nationals will be in Ohio in May if you are close to there. Good time to meet lots of breeders.

[Coyoteco]

I think you should be a lot more positive about yourself in your email or even phone call. Perhaps talk to someone you know who knows about resumes to help you come from a positive perspective. You can disclose the same information while highlighting the many positives you can offer a dog. Your email does the opposite. I think your statement about someone misunderstanding your disability is a good place to start. Disability is a pretty strong word with definite connotations.
Good luck.

[Bicoastal]

I appreciate the breeders’ candor and concern for their dogs’ needs. I wouldn’t want to be over-dogged and miserable, either.

With my < 11" Papillon, I bend dozens of times a day to deliver treats, to snap the leash on and off, to reward in or adjust position, to carry him, etc. To play or pet, I have to be on the ground.

An hour of OB class leaves me aching. Handling a friend’s Lab, Borzoi, or even BC is so convenient and easy.

I currently compete in agility, obedience, and rally. I know what my back can handle in those arenas. I wish to pursue a UD and MACH. I understand the effort and investment that requires.

[QUOTE=jreventer;7448914]
I often find people with fenced yards just throw the dog out in the yard and don’t truly exercise the dog.[/QUOTE]

Yep, my situation forces me to intentionally exercise the dogs. I think of that as a bonus. I can play fetch or do jump grids in the 90% fenced back yard. Still, the exercise part of the dogs’ needs is deliberate and monitored.

Shelties are popular and successful but I fear the barking would not be suitable for an apt.

I was contemplating Whippets because I’m good with soft temperaments but, watching others, competition is a hard row to sow with an occasional exception in temperament.

[Bicoastal]

[QUOTE=js;7448842]
Get you a pair of those tong thingees for reaching to pick things up, rather than relying on a dog to do that for you[/QUOTE]

Have em in multiple rooms! You know how long I struggled to get them to grasp a small tupperware container of dog treats that I dropped off the counter last night?

They can’t grasp the stainless steel dog bowls.

I prop it in a corner. It falls down. Sigh.

[Preposterous_Ponies]

[QUOTE=Bicoastal;7448974]
I appreciate the breeders’ candor and concern for their dogs’ needs. I wouldn’t want to be over-dogged and miserable, either.

With my < 11" Papillon, I bend dozens of times a day to deliver treats, to snap the leash on and off, to reward in or adjust position, to carry him, etc. To play or pet, I have to be on the ground.

An hour of OB class leaves me aching. Handling a friend’s Lab, Borzoi, or even BC is so convenient and easy.

I currently compete in agility, obedience, and rally. I know what my back can handle in those arenas. I wish to pursue a UD and MACH. I understand the effort and investment that requires.

Yep, my situation forces me to intentionally exercise the dogs. I think of that as a bonus. I can play fetch or do jump grids in the 90% fenced back yard. Still, the exercise part of the dogs’ needs is deliberate and monitored.

Shelties are popular and successful but I fear the barking would not be suitable for an apt.

I was contemplating Whippets because I’m good with soft temperaments but, watching others, competition is a hard row to sow with an occasional exception in temperament.[/QUOTE]

I was going to suggest a sheltie as well. All of the ones I have met, including my previous sheltie, were not big barkers. She alerted the family to when somebody was at the door, and that was it. No yipping, no yapping, just a “woof woof, someone is here. You got it? Great.” End.

ETA: Could you get a large mounting block? Teach doggy to come up on the block for food, being leashed, ect. The stairs should be easy enough for even a little dog to manage.

[wendy]

I’d suggest looking at the regular collies, they will probably suit your needs better. They are very closely related to the Belgians, but have had the intensity/nutso behaviors bred down to a more tolerable level.

I’d be more concerned about the back problem than about the apartment living- Belgians don’t do anything by half-measures, and they love to tug, and for both tugging and hanging onto an incompletely leash trained Belgian intent on doing X your back probably isn’t going to work out. And despite their trainability, you might notice that Belgians just aren’t a popular “service dog” breed- they tend to not have the stable temperaments you want for that. Plus Belgians need A LOT of daily exercise, and can you provide that with your back problem?
I know someone who ended up quitting on Belgians after years of doing the protection sports because her body couldn’t deal with the physical demands of HANDLING the dogs- the tugging, the power of them lunging, etc. and she just had a bit of arthritis, not a disabled back.
Belgians do great in apartments if their owners exercise them properly. They don’t generally have much interest in doing anything by themselves if just put out in a yard, so having a fenced yard is sort of irrelevant.
So perhaps you should listen to the two breeders and select a different breed.

[cowboymom]

Train your Pap to jump up on things for you. I literally NEVER lean over for my 6 inch tall chi unless I want to-we play on the bed or couch if she wants to wrestle around, the rest of the time she’s running. You could make that part of your life a little easier while you look for the other dog. I get what you’re saying but I think you could make a couple adjustments for your own sake. My mom also has a terrible back and they have a dachie, Boston and a Vizsla. The little dogs jump up on things for her to handle them. The Vizsla is a freak from space but he is tall and slim and helps her up from her chair sometimes!

I think that you can find something if you open your options.

[Bicoastal]

Ok so dog for the weekend apt warrior who shouldn’t bend?

[QUOTE=Coyoteco;7448970]
You can disclose the same information while highlighting the many positives you can offer a dog.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for saying I have many positives. I’m crying re-reading this thread, feeling my hopes dashed by circumstances. Dog sports has replaced horses. Horses were my identity, career, social life, etc.

This past weekend:
Friday after work
7 - 11:30 din (dog in car),volunteer at ag class (dog in crate), private ag lesson

Saturday
8 - 10am hike on & off leash
10 - 12:30 shop with dog friend for another dog friend’s shower
3:30 - 11pm carpool with dog friends to run thru

Sunday
9 - 9:30am walk
10:30 - 4 drive to then participate in OB seminar
7:30 - 11pm din with dog friend then carpool to ag class

Monday
9hr work day + dr appt after work. Happens once a month.
11am dogwalker
2pm I drive home to walk and sniff around backyard
6:40pm return home and walk
9:30 - 10:30pm OB class

This coming weekend:
Fri
11am dr appt (not back. Melanoma post-op)
2 - 5pm drive to 200 acre farm in Charlottesville
5pm - Dinner frolic

Saturday
8am - compete in ag trial

Sunday - Mon
leashes will never be used: alternate frolic & rest

Tues
12 - 3pm drive home
7:20 - 8:30pm private ag lesson

[Alex_and_Bodie_s_Mom]

[QUOTE=Bicoastal;7448824]

Their reasons are my being an apartment dweller who works full time and has a back disability.

My wants are sports versatility, biddability, stable temperament, easy to reach but not heavy size, medium drive, some grooming, and aren’t on any apartment banned breeds lists. (I admire Dobes but that would make renting even harder.)

[[/I][/QUOTE]

Based on these qualifications, I’d suggest a greyhound. I had one show up some years ago out of the blue. She was the quietest, kindest dog I’ve ever had, perfectly content to curl and sleep a lot, but ready to go when I was. Medium height, not very heavy. I did some research when Babe showed up, and saw that a lot of people commented on how laid-back they were, but they’re obviously athletic as well. And almost zero grooming!

[LauraKY]

Greyhound rescue might just find you to be the perfect home. They are absolutely couch potatoes inside.

With any double coated breed, you’re still going to have the grooming problem…you have to bend over or sit to groom. What happens when they get older and need help getting into the car?

I’d go with a smaller dog trained to jump up on a bench.

[halo]

I have 3 shelties, purchased from this breeder:

http://www.himarkshelties.com/

They are extraordinarily smart, and tho they do bark, if I say…stop…they stop. Because they are smart, they can be trained to hush. Its like training for anything else. This breeder is known for her trainability on her dogs. Sadly to say Ive probably wasted my little guys talents, as they are just farm dogs, but they do take their farming duties very seriously.

The only think Im wondering is what you would do with a puppy all day long. Could you take it to work with you?

[moonriverfarm]

What about a sheter dog or one from rescue??? There are certainly plenty out there needing new homes like yours!