[QUOTE=LauraKY;7449064]
Greyhound rescue might just find you to be the perfect home. They are absolutely couch potatoes inside.
With any double coated breed, you’re still going to have the grooming problem…you have to bend over or sit to groom. What happens when they get older and need help getting into the car?
I’d go with a smaller dog trained to jump up on a bench.[/QUOTE]
THIS^^^^^ Greyhounds are great apartment dogs.
I doubt a Greyhound is likely to be suitable for the other aspects of the wish list of competing in obedience and agility. Standard poodle would be another one to consider.
I’ll put in another standard poodle vote. She’s high energy outdoors. She’s a retrieving machine. She would excel at pretty much any dog sport I would ask her to do. She’d probably love to have had a life like you describe. She’d love agility or obedience.
Indoors? She’s a couch potato. During the day she hangs out on the bed while we’re at work (the minis (poodles) get crated together because they’re dingbats).
She’s plenty big enough (50lbs) to be an at home service dog if need be.
They do require grooming, but you can keep them cut short and really only have to have them groomed every 8 weeks or so. My three all get done once a month and are kept in a more complicated, longer trim, but I’m also a groomer and I enjoy doing it. I have a lot of clients that just get their poodles essentially shaved down every 6-8 weeks and it works out just fine for them.
[QUOTE=Bicoastal;7449049]
Thank you for saying I have many positives. I’m crying re-reading this thread, feeling my hopes dashed by circumstances. Dog sports has replaced horses. Horses were my identity, career, social life, etc. [/QUOTE]
I totally understand, I’m in the same boat with dogs replacing horses. :yes:
It sounds like you understand the requirements of the breed, and although I have no desire for a Terv myself, I understand why you would want one. Shelties are still small and bark-y (I have one, I know!), and while a dog like a greyhound might be an awesome apartment dog it is very unlikely to be a MACH or UD candidate.
Honestly, I think your biggest problem is that you are framing yourself poorly in your contact with the breeders. I think this paragraph is what’s killing you.
[I]In a nutshell, I am an apartment dweller with a full time job that has some flexible scheduling and telework perks. I have decided on a two-dog maximum. I have a back disability that yearns for a taller dog that could possibly perform the service task of picking up dropped objects around the house. I do not need a service dog with public access.
[/I]You are active, train regularly, and work full time. Calling your back problem a “disability” conjures up images of a wheelchair bound individual, someone who is unable to work (and therefore unable to pay for dog costs), or one who is of very limited mobility and unable to properly exercise a dog.
If it were me, I would emphasize why I AM a good fit for the breed rather than asking the breeder to draw that conclusion themselves. Highlight that you know things about the breed, and training. Maybe approach this paragraph more along the lines of:
Although I have never owned a Tervuren specifically, I understand the exercise requirements of this breed and feel I am more than able to meet them. I work full-time, but my Papillon and I take a half-hour walk before work, a dog-walker is paid to walk him for a half-hour around 11, and I am home for a third walk and romp around 2pm. I’ve gotten very involved in dog sports- I participate in training classes 2-4 nights per week (I use ______ handling system) and practice obedience daily. I’m fortunate that my job offers telecommuting perks, so my schedule is flexible. On weekends I’m usually trialling or hiking in the woods with my Pap.
While I love my Papillon (who has earned ABC, DEF, and XYZ titles), I am looking to add a second dog. Ideally I am looking for a high-level obedience and agility prospect, and I know Tervurens typically excel in these sports. The temperament, trainability, and drive of these dogs is appealing to me, as is their size (I have a chronic back condition which makes bending down painful, and not having to practically sit on the floor to buckle a collar would be great!).
Also… I’m in the process of raising a high-drive, bred-to-the-nines, high level agility prospect puppy (a 6 month old Briard- dad’s a GCh and got HIT in herding at Briard Nationals last year; mom’s a 3 year old GCh working on her herding championship and a MACH, has multiple obedience and rally titles, and is learning tracking; grandmom’s a triple champion in conformation, herding, and obedience, plus has titles in Rally etc.).
They are a lot of work. I knew this going in, just as you know it going in. It still caught me off guard. Raising my crazy pants sheltie was literally a cakewalk compared to raising this dog. He’s going to be a great dog, at 6 months he is big, strong, and pushy.
If I were working FT, I would probably be seeking out an older puppy rather than a new one. Tiny puppies, especially tiny puppies of the ultra-high-drive and high-socialization-need variety, are a mind-numbing amount of work at times. Lots of breeders keep puppies to grow out as show prospects who turn out NQR at 6 or 8 months, and who have to be rehomed as a consequence. I have several friends who have gotten REALLY AWESOME, super well bred dogs this way. Going that route might lighten your load, and acknowledging your limitations in caring for an 8 week old puppy while working FT (while simultaneously acknowledging your preparedness for an older pup) might get you further in the good graces of some of the more protective breeders, too.
If you’re looking into other breeds, a drivey Golden or Lab, a bigger male Vizsla, or a standard Poodle might all be worth considering as well.
Just a thought! :yes:
I vote sheltie for MACH capability and apartment dwelling. We also have a couple nationally ranked King Charles Cav. Spaniel from our kennel club. I have seen someone work a couple wonderful duck tolling spaniels too at the shows.
As someone pointed out, any of the larger working breeds are going to destroy your back playing tug. My 9mo pup almost knocked me into the wood stove the other day–yikes. Also, echoing, they get old and need to be lifted in and out of things. I was lucky my husband was strong enough to lift Zelda in and out of the car the last month of her life. I physically couldn’t do it and nothing is worse than needing to get to the ER vet ASAP and you can’t lift your dog (literally bawling on the sidewalk because she collapsed and I couldn’t lift her). So I vote no to a larger dog.
I constantly see people posting on FB Doberman sites about not being able to find an apartment that will let them have a Doberman. They had to move, or whatever and now can’t find an apartment. So I can understand where the breeders are coming from. This is a real issue with any dog over 40lbs (or whatever the local cut-off seems to be) or any dog that gets slapped with the “vicious” label. I pulled this not allowed list from the largest apartment group in my area: Pit bulls, Alaskan Malamutes, Rottweiler, Akitas, Chow Chows, American Staffordshire Terriers, Doberman Pinchers, German Shepherds, Siberian Huskies, Wolf-Hybrids, Perro de Presa Canarios (or any of the afore mentioned dog breeds in their lineage.) Tuervs look a lot like GSDs to the uneducated.
When our house sold too quickly and we were trying to find temporary housing with Dobermans I couldn’t find it ANYWHERE. And it was more about having a 70lb dog than breed.
Maybe a Border Collie? You would have to keep it occupied but it sounds like you have a plan. I have a friend with two of them, when they are in the house, they are couch potatoes- outside, whirling dervishes lol.
Border collie? -not a good idea for apt living.
I agree with the Greyhound recommendations.
Well I raised a Dutch Shepherd and a working line GSD puppy while working full time. I also have lived in an apartment with them as well. I was willing to make the commitment to them and it sounds like you would too.
I am not sure where you are located but Mike Suttle (logan haus Kennels) breeds Dutchies and Mals. He is very knowledgeable about which lines produce what. I would suggest that you give him a call and talk to him about your goals. He also has washouts available occasionally that might work.
take a half-hour walk before work, a dog-walker is paid to walk him for a half-hour around 11, and I am home for a third walk and romp around 2pm.
also consider that this exercise schedule is barely a warm-up for a high-energy working dog, and if someone started talking about taking their Belgian for half-hour leash walks as their main source of exercise, well, the breeders are correct in gently telling you no.
Let me quickly add: I absolutely do NOT require a puppy. I’d prefer a retired or wash out adult. I got the Pap when he retired at 7. I’ve fostered dozens of dogs, puppy and older. I will happily skip the cute puppy phase!!
Bicoastal most defiantly give Mike Suttle a call. Chances are if he doesn’t have something that suits you needs then he will know someone that does. My dutchie was a washout from him and she is awesome though we did go through some growing pains.
I do agree with those that are concerned with the physical requirements of a Terv as far as strength, tugging, etc. BUT you can train a dog to not do this. My three guys are all different. My older male is incredibly obedient, wants to be your shadow, but he is tough because he is full force ahead and will knock into you just because he is wide open and not paying attention. My older female is very polite, never pulls, respects your space, and while she has endless energy when you want her to go she would be happy in an apartment hanging out with her person. And then there is my youngest female-she is wide open, very drivey, very high energy. She is a strong tugger-but I have enforced that! She has kept me on my toes and amuses me on a daily basis-but would not work for your lifestyle. However, her full brother is the softest, sweetest, easy terv. If we hadn’t recently found his home, he would have been a possibility for your lifestyle.
They are not all nutso, reactive dogs. Yes you have to put the energy into socializing them. From day one mine go everywhere, meet everyone, do everything with me. And because of that, mine are pretty solid in most situations. Great with kids, other dogs, cats, people, etc. BUT I have worked hard to get them there and they come from an amazing who is very picky about the temperament of the dogs she breeds.
If you are interested in a terv still look into finding a older puppy, young adult maybe-you will then have a better ideal of their temperament.
If you are interested in other breeds a standard poodle would be a good choice. But keep in mind they can be very vocal. I have a standard as well. He is super sweet, easy to train (not as smart/quick as the tervs), happy to go, but happy to hang out. BUT he barks more then my tervs all combined.
I would say avoid border collies, aussies, etc. A collie could be a great option. I don’t think a sighthound would be want you want if you want a mach dog. Not saying they can’t do it, but it is a harder road for them.
Feel free to PM and I will give you my breeder’s info.
I’ve always said that if the Doberman breed didn’t exist, I’d go for a Standard Poodle. I agree with the others that this might be a good fit for you, too. 
For what it’s worth, we have a local woman who has put TONS of various type titles on her Smooth Collies. So, thumbs up for that breed!
[QUOTE=kasjordan;7449373]
Maybe a Border Collie? You would have to keep it occupied but it sounds like you have a plan. I have a friend with two of them, when they are in the house, they are couch potatoes- outside, whirling dervishes lol.[/QUOTE]
I refrained from saying this because I thought people would disagree and I concede that my experience is limited. You experience is similar to mine, though. My current Border Collie is very happy being a couch potato, though energetic and athletic outside. My friends BC was like that, too. I know my Aussie was the same way, as was my childhood dog whom I’m thinking was an English Shepherd (just called “shepherds” back then and there).
[QUOTE=wendy;7449405]
also consider that this exercise schedule is barely a warm-up for a high-energy working dog, and if someone started talking about taking their Belgian for half-hour leash walks as their main source of exercise, well, the breeders are correct in gently telling you no.[/QUOTE]
I agree but also respectfully disagree with applying that opinion to the case at hand.
If someone said to me, “I would like my dog’s exercise requirements to be met with a half hour on-leash walk, and I want a Belgian shepherd,” I would laugh in their face.
HOWEVER. Bicoastal isn’t saying she thinks a half hour morning walk (or even TWO half hour on-leash walks) is sufficient. Sixty minutes of walking would be a good start and certainly make at least a dent in a dog’s energy (if it’s not, you’re either walking at a snail’s pace or asking/offering your dog zero mental engagement). Bicoastal is saying sixty minutes a day of walking (which may even be off leash, that hasn’t been determined), PLUS an extended afternoon playtime, PLUS an evening training class.
IMO, a daily exercise regiment of 60 minutes of brisk walking or jogging (especially if it’s off leash), 30 minutes of playing, AND 60 minutes of agility training should be sufficient to settle most any dog. Add feeding meals out of brain toys and that much daily activity should tire out any dog. Even a Belgian shepherd.
To me it seems unrealistic to think the average Belgian owner (including the average Belgian owner who competes in dog sports!) is spending in excess of 3 hours per day doing hard exercise with their dog. Would the dog like exercising that much? Possibly, maybe even probably. Would it break them down at an early age? Possibly. Is it necessary to successfully manage a happy Belgian? IMO, no.
(ETA: I’m not entirely sure how this factors in… but of the dozen or so Belgians I know successfully competing in agility, I’d say oddly at least half of their owners are morbidly obese. I’ve never asked how/when/how much they exercise their dogs outside of agility, but I’m positive they’re not running marathons. And they all have very good, seemingly happy, mentally stable dogs.)
I have to say, my Aussie that I have now as well as most I’ve known before and Border Collies I have known would be perfect, especially since OP isn’t opposed to an older dog that would have by then shown if they are going to be the right temperament. They aren’t all wingnuts.
Greyhounds won’t be the best to train and for obedience, especially at the higher levels, they will be a tough go.
They just are not bred to be that kind of into their human, as obedience and agility demands.
Shelties, the trouble is that she won’t be there to teach them not to bark and if something keeps setting them off, sorry, they are shelties, they are going to end up having their barkfest.
Other than that, they would be wonderful dogs.
Tervuren tend to be temperamentally even more touchy then dobies, hard to keep from freaking out at things, especially when young, which again makes it harder to train them for what you want.
Those breeds are completely into you, but with holes in their temperament here and there, maybe not what you want?
There is a reason the breeds that are most popular for those disciplines are the ones they are, because they really enjoy working with you and the environment you are playing with them.
A greyhound will do any of that to be nice to you, but not really enjoy it that much, he rather sleep on the couch the day away.
Keep looking, something will click for you, we really can’t tell you much.
If you are looking to go far in obedience or agility, you really need a dog that will help you get there.
If you were just going to class to have fun and a show here and there, then breed would not matter.
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