I am from “the South” and work with several rescues who send dogs north. All kinds of dogs, not all pit mixes and hounds! We have sent pugs, chihuahuas, JRTs, and all kinds of blends of the above. GSD, poodles, you name it. So do not discount what rescues have in their pantry 
check Puppy Love in WI for one! Or Badass Brooklyn Dogs. Both support southern rescues.
[QUOTE=Bicoastal;7451714]
I wish I could respond to every post, but then I might be a wet blanket to my own thread!
I enjoy 10mins of brushing 1x or 2x/week, light clipping, bimonthly baths. I haven’t got used to petting Poos; the coat texture is so different.
While I was walking last night, I pondered “How do I get a Standard to safely leap onto a grooming table in my living room? It’d need a ramp. I’d have to lift the ramp! Or a low table and then I’d be bending.”
I’ve encountered 6. 5 are goofy, playful, and degrees of scatter-brained. Their owners are terrified of losing control :no:. I now enjoy a dog whose eyes are riveted to me at every waking moment, and I have yet to see that concentration from a Poodle. Maybe it is the training on the ones I know.
I’ve read on a grooming forum that comp groomers like ?Mylan? sized Poos…tall mini/small standard. I’d like a taller dog but weight is definitely a criteria, for emergencies. I’m surprised by how light some tall dogs are -like a 35# Terv.
As a single woman who travels alone to seedy trial hotels with dogs that attract “SQUEEEEE KYOOOT PUPPY!” I would appreciate a dog that commands a space bubble. Not a requirement, a consideration. Maybe a Black would do the trick.[/QUOTE]
I groom my poodles once every 4-6 weeks. I don’t typically touch them in between. They get a bath at that point and their haircut. Most of my poodle clients keep them a little shorter and go 4-8 weeks. They don’t get baths in between unless they get into something that warrants it. If you bathe them, it is imperative you brush them out.
As far as getting on a grooming table? My standard can get on the kitchen counter. From a standstill. And by get on, I mean jump up and land on with all four feet in one bound. She’s going on 10 this year. At work, she jumps onto the grooming tables that are waist high to my 5’5" self without blinking. Heck, the minis (my male is 15" and my female is 14") can get onto the kitchen counter or waist high grooming tables with a running start. No ramp necessary! They’re ridiculously athletic. My male was able to do this at about 10mo.
As far as being scatterbrained goes, I think its how they’re trained, what they’re expected to be like as well as breeding. My male (who I raised, my fiance raised the girls) is quite focused on me - very border collie like. I had a border collie before him and I expected that he focus on me in a similar way when I was training him. The mini female isn’t particularly focused, but she was never expected to be. She’s the cuddliest, but is certainly the dingbat of the group. If you’re working with the standard, she’s fairly focused. She would be more so if she had been trained to be that way. She could have done well at pretty much any dog sport if she’d been asked to.
Also, some colors tend to be more dingbatty than others. The chocolates/apricots/reds have a tendency to be dingbat clowns. The blacks tend to be the most workmanlike, IME. The creams and whites tend to fall somewhere in between. A lot will depend on breeding. You’ll run into a lot of idiots just breeding any two poodles. However, there are a lot of people breeding them for various dog sports in addition to hunting (their original purpose). Show lines may or may not be what you’re looking for. Its probably split down the middle whether or not they’ve got the brain/athleticism to do what you’re interested in.
The “moyen” size I think is what you’re referring to. Its not recognized in the US/AKC, but it is in Europe. Its a large mini/small standard. They’re in the 18" range. Here you’d probably have to look for minis who have gone way oversize (limit is 15") or just really small standards (technically anything over 15"). They will be extremely undesirable in general in the US because they’re too small to really be shown as a standard and way too big to qualify as a mini. Breeders would likely be looking to get rid of them.
My standard is about 50# and is a leggy thing. Her head is just under my hand when I’m standing. She’s a pretty average size, but its pretty easy to find smaller, lighter females. She’s old school, heavy boned breeding.
As far as traveling with her? I keep her in a short German cut (http://www.poodleforum.com/3-poodle-pictures/19970-hs-new-german-clip.html) so she’s not terribly froo froo looking. I keep her legs and head/crest a little shorter than the pictures. She’s a black and extremely protective of me. She’s not overly friendly to strangers initially. She’s quite standoffish and eyeballs them. Once I have clearly accepted/encouraged a new person’s presence, she’s all about it and wants to play, but until then, she’s definitely eyeballing them in that “don’t try anything funny here” way. The minis are in the same haircut (the male is a blue and the female is a cream), but absolutely don’t give off a ‘give us space’ vibe. They’re very much in the WE LOVE ALL THE PEOPLES category and are pretty sure everyone they run into exists solely to be their new best friend.
Anyway, I’ve written a book at this point. If you have more poodle questions feel free to ask…I’m quite fond of them!
Originally Posted by scruffy the cat
Have you looked at smooth collies? I know I’ve asked you 3x and you can’t respond to every post, but they do fit all your criteria and maybe even a little better- they are just a bit less drivey/high energy than tervs (I am generalizing, of course) but still have fabulous focus and can be great sports partners.
[QUOTE=Bicoastal;7452683]
I’ve only met one in person. How much do they weigh? I’d like to stay under 45#. I thought they had several health problems, eyes being the big one. Why do the eyes have to be soooo tiny? [/QUOTE]
I’m not sure whether you’re still looking for a Belgian Tervuren, but I wanted to point out that Collies and Tervs are essentially the same size. Both AKC breed standards have females standing 22-24 inches at shoulder, and males standing 24-26 inches at shoulder. And a quick google and read of a few sources for average weights suggested the two breeds are essentially the same average weights.
[QUOTE=Alex and Bodie’s Mom;7449052]
Based on these qualifications, I’d suggest a greyhound. I had one show up some years ago out of the blue. She was the quietest, kindest dog I’ve ever had, perfectly content to curl and sleep a lot, but ready to go when I was. Medium height, not very heavy. I did some research when Babe showed up, and saw that a lot of people commented on how laid-back they were, but they’re obviously athletic as well. And almost zero grooming![/QUOTE]
Greyhounds make excellent apartment dogs, IME. They need exercise, like every other dog out there, but I have many acquaintances and friends who are apartment dwellers with this breed.
Though, if you are looking for the type of dog that can thrive in your apartment I would go with personality over breed - hop over to the local shelter and be very candid with what you have to offer. They’ll pair you up in no time.
I’ve also found that bull terriers and pitties make excellent couch potatoes and stay-at-home dogs. But, both of those may be difficult in housing situations because of their ‘reputation’. I love shelties, but in this situation would not advise them. French Bulldogs are also excellent apartment dwellers. A couple of spitz breeds come to mind too.
It might be hard to fit all your prerequisites - some of the breeds mentioned aren’t in vogue in agility/etc, but still make for excellent companions.
[QUOTE=Bicoastal;7452683]
Fantastic size and working drive. I enjoy watching them on course. I thought they were heavy for their height but maybe I’m wrong. My biggest concern with ACDs is temperament. I’ve heard horror stories of them being hard and dog & possession/property aggressive.[/QUOTE]
I like both breeds, so when I say this I am not disparaging either, but is all of this not somewhat true of both of these breeds?
I know that man Tervs are successful in obedience and agility, but all of the Belgian Shepherds I’ve known are probably not the most dog/stranger friendly dogs, especially on their home turf. They also seem like more reserved, one person dogs.
ACD’s are heavy for their size usually. Mine is working bred, not show bred, and he’s 36 pounds and kind of tall an leggy. He can jump onto the counter from a standstill. Yes his is possessive and protective, and he taken a lot of training and management, but he is a rescue, no clue about his parents.
If I were looking to buy one, I’d be checking out parents and breeders looking friendly, open, and not possessive. I’ve met those kinds of ACD’s too.
While you can find smaller tervs, a 35# terv would be the exception-maybe a small boned, light female. Of course then it will be jumping 20" and competing against the wickedly fast border collies!
Just for reference my tervs are-male 25.5" ideal weight 65-67#, female-23.5" ideal weight 51-52#. They are pretty well muscled and lots of bone. My standard poodle is around 25" and 51-53# ideal weight.
I do think a well bred, solid temperament terv would fit what you are looking for, but it might take a while to find the right match. Anyone who thinks all tervs are shy needs to meet my guys-they have never met a stranger!
[QUOTE=Marshfield;7452875]
And I work for a hospital that is a site for the quarantine of animals coming into New Hampshire and I see the dogs being brought in to area by the tractor trailer load. So I TOO know what I’m talking about. I do the health certificate exams on these dogs. And I would NEVER send a friend to or support a puppy mill. This is a NEW veterinary client who went to the local pet store after being unable to find what she wanted in the shelters. I referred her to various other rescues in the area after she stopped in to see if I knew anybody looking to place a small dog. I checked out the local shelters after her visit and there was nothing that met her criteria of a young (under 5) small dog.
How dare you imply that I would let a friend support a puppy mill? I know countless reputable breeders I could have referred her to if she hadn’t told me she was looking for a rescue Clearly you had trouble comprehending what I wrote. And since I personally touch anywhere from 20 to 40 dogs that have come up from the south on any given week to do their exams, I do know what is in our area. I regularly see purebred Great Pyrenese and some chihuahuas coming through the rescue pipeline but that’s about it. So what you see in the shelter you work at is NOT what is seen everywhere.[/QUOTE]
You said and I quote " local pet store", that implies puppy mill. Simple as that. Pet stores are not reliable sources as they get their dogs from puppy mills.
We get dogs transferred to us as well via the rescue waggin from all over. I have seen a multitude of purebred dogs come through our doors. I know what I am talking about.
[QUOTE=witherbee;7452650]
When I was in New ENgland, I contacted the breed rescue for collies and within a week they had notified me of 2 near me at different animal control facilities. I was going ot take both of them, but the male was not available when I got there. Ended up with the female (on her last day at AC!) and she was about 1 year old. Beautiful dog was our Delilah!
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i245/wtryan/Memorial%20page/001.jpg
Good luck OP, and I like the idea that someone mentioned to go to a trial or a show where there are Tervs and meet the folks in person. I had looked into them as well, but my understanding was that they are big dogs and might be a bit more challenging to socialize than I wanted.[/QUOTE]
Oh my gosh, witherbee! Delilah is STUNNING!!! <hearts!!!> I have two roughs - a tri-headed white, and a sable and white “Lassie” type - half bro and sis - adopted both last May at 3 years of age. Sweetest dogs ever - but not competition material, sad to say. However, they make great couch potatoes, walking companions, and love bugs.
OP - My sister has a small Terv bitch (about 16" at the shoulder) that she’s working in Agility, and boy oh boy can that dog FLY around a course. And loves every second of her workouts. Smart as a whip, loves everyone, outgoing and so athletic it’s scary!! Sis got her from a breeder who breeds for the show ring, but also for athletic dogs. The males are larger than the bitches.
So look around - there’s a special dog out there waiting for you to be its partner!
There ya go! Track down that breeder that 5chestnut’s sister found!
Ya know, I love my RC collie, but I cannot imagine him doing agility. Or even rally or obedience.
He is the sweetest, kindest, most gentle loving soul on earth. But he has the drive of a rock and is only slightly smarter. He is the opposite of “sharp.”
I dabbled in agility with my Dobies back in the day (and my DH did it with his Lab and a beagle/terrier mix), so have a passing familiarity, and I simply can’t imagine even trying with my collie. Now, I do think the smoothies are a tad more sporty, so maybe think in that direction.
I looked at Tervs, and there is a lot about them I liked, but the average one had way too much drive for me–and I lived and worked full time on a farm at the time. That’s how I ended up with my first Dobe–I like a yes ma’am dog.
Collie folks- just take a look at the cover of this month’s Clean Run magazine.
https://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=feature.display&feature_id=6
OP, a couple of things to think about.
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if size is important, Border Collies often arrive in a multitude of sizes from quite small (#30) to quite large (#50). They also come in various degrees of hardness and drive.
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if you want one of the Belgian breeds, look at a bunch of breeders and don’t necessarily go to a high drive kennel. I know you follow Denise Fenzi, and she would be a good resource for a dog with the attributes you are looking for, as she probably has contacts others don’t within the breed.
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I wouldn’t think that living in an apt or working f/t would be a detractor for all breeders. Those who rejected you for those two things probably aren’t what you are looking for anyway.
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I know I harp on this but while exercise is important, too much can be a bad thing (esp if you are doing it on a hard surface like concrete) and mental exercise will tire a dog out as well w/o spending hours doing it.
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I don’t often recommend this, but I would look at quality rescues as well. A good rescue will have tested their dogs in a home with cats, small dogs and kids. Even if you don’t have cats/kids, you may encounter kids at agility venues and so the dog should probably be tested for tolerance with them. In addition, a dog who is good with cats/kids/small dogs will probably have a more balanced personality.
Just because THIS is the agility I will have to do, look at this BC. He is not hyper, but is keenly focused and obedient. It is some-kinda-amazing handling and training.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95hDARZhSac&feature=em-subs_digest
I would also consider a border collie - they don’t bark much and an older one could be enough of a couch potato to tolerate apartment living. You might want to look into contacting BC folks who do competitive herding - sometimes they will place their older dogs when they slow down a bit and retire from competition. The retired competition dogs have impeccable training and rock-solid recalls. We missed out on the opportunity to take on a retired BC a few years ago and I regret the missed opportunity!
I wasn’t going to post because in threads like this you get one of every breed recommended.
But I just have to put a word in for Greyhounds (since others have suggested them).
My best, most loyal, loving dog was a Greyhound.
While I admit they won’t fetch your slippers for you, they make up for it in other ways. Quiet, non-smelly, couch potatoes after a run, trained to leash and crate and housetrained, short coated…
Look up Royal Hounds, which is just one organization, to get a taste. There is also the satisfaction of having a dog with a rotten life leading to being euthanised, come into your home to learn what it is like to be loved and to learn to love.
Can’t trap my cat…Need ideas/suggestions!
I’m going through a remodel, and since it’s being done by a friend’s brother who lives out of town, it’s going to take longer as he only comes up a couple of days a week. I don’t mind the wait because it will save me a lot of money.
I am leasing a place short term and specifically found something which allows pets.
Long story short, one of my cats is still at large and I can’t catch her. I had her in a 2 piece crate when getting ready to move and she busted out because the pieces weren’t fastened properly. I am feeding her close to my place, but since I’m in an HOA I can’t leave food out in my yard. She won’t go back inside because it’s torn up with wood, plastic, etc. everywhere. At one point I was able to pick her up and get her in one of those cardboard carriers, but she broke out of that before I could even get close to my car.
I now have a trap I rented, but she won’t go in to get the food. I stopped feeding her every day so she would be hungry thinking it would help, much as it did when I trapped her as a feral kitten.
I’ve to the trap covered and place in the area I have been feeding her. I’ve tried to entice her with tuna and also tried Kentucky Fried Chicken which I read is supposed to work well.
The longer she is out, the more she is going back to feral-dom. She won’t go near other people and now she doesn’t trust me.
I’m hoping someone here might have an idea for something I haven’t tried. I miss my kitty! 
You might want to think about a Silken Windhound, not AKC but currently UKC and double registered with ISWS. Also allows you to race and course your dog for more fun.
Tall for their weight and the temperament is much more want-to-work than most sighthounds.
http://vimeo.com/10515013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgNmy0kTVK0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ad3PzBUXQU
Shorter than Borzoi, but still lovely
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Silken_Windhound_and_Borzoi_(Kal_tyler).jpg
http://www.borzoi.org/images/dm_47827.jpg
a male and female
http://www.starfyresilkenwindhounds.com/uploads/4/3/3/7/4337395/1990698_orig.jpg
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c5/7e/88/c57e882b02f84fa5d7f2a0a302768fab.jpg
[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;7459333]
I wasn’t going to post because in threads like this you get one of every breed recommended.
But I just have to put a word in for Greyhounds (since others have suggested them).
My best, most loyal, loving dog was a Greyhound.
While I admit they won’t fetch your slippers for you, they make up for it in other ways. Quiet, non-smelly, couch potatoes after a run, trained to leash and crate and housetrained, short coated…
Look up Royal Hounds, which is just one organization, to get a taste. There is also the satisfaction of having a dog with a rotten life leading to being euthanised, come into your home to learn what it is like to be loved and to learn to love.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=D_BaldStockings;7459922]You might want to think about a Silken Windhound, not AKC but currently UKC and double registered with ISWS. Also allows you to race and course your dog for more fun.
Tall for their weight and the temperament is much more want-to-work than most sighthounds.
http://vimeo.com/10515013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgNmy0kTVK0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ad3PzBUXQU
Shorter than Borzoi, but still lovely
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Silken_Windhound_and_Borzoi_(Kal_tyler).jpg
http://www.borzoi.org/images/dm_47827.jpg
a male and female
http://www.starfyresilkenwindhounds.com/uploads/4/3/3/7/4337395/1990698_orig.jpg
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c5/7e/88/c57e882b02f84fa5d7f2a0a302768fab.jpg[/QUOTE]
Right, nice dogs, but would you want to do serious, competitive agility with them?
We are back to trying to fit square pegs in round holes, with breeds that are not really suitable for the designated purpose.
I have an American Eskimo Dog. He is about 30 lbs which I think puts him at as a Standard which is the largest of their sizes.
I don’t do agility but he is pretty darn fast, not BC fast but not far behind. He is very athletic, can jump up onto the dining room table from the floor.
I have never felt like he needed huge amounts of exercise. My lab needs way more. We got him at about a year old from a local shelter. DH did some basic dog training classes and he was very responsive and quick to learn. He is very food motivated.
I don’t brush him as much as I should because he doesn’t like it. He gets brushed maybe every other week. I am guessing he is probably puppy mill or BYB lines so his coat is not at heavy as some show dogs. He only needs to be bathed about every 10 months. He has one of those coats that sheds dirt amazingly well. I have read that is common with this breed. He will get his paws and ruff all green after we mow. The next day he is back to pristine white.
No, obviously, Greyhounds will not fetch your slippers for you, but they do agility quite well…and speedily.
They maybe not exactly what the OP was looking for but their other qualities might have outweighed the basic criteria…ya never know.
