Puppy Application Rejected by Two Kennels

[Appsolute]

I have not read the whole thread, but just a suggestion.

I own a 17 pound terrier mutt (looks exactly like a Patterdale Terrier). Previously, I had always had lager dogs, and I am not used to all of the bending over for a “small dog”.

I have taught my small dog to come up to me. He will “sit like a poodle” on command (like THIS) , and will also stand on hind legs on command (like THIS), both make giving him a pat on the head, snapping on leashes, and giving treats very easy, he brings his head up to “lab” level.

Further, he has been trained to jump up and into my arms when I clap my hands twice in front of me (no need to bend over to pick him up).

When walking off leash, he has been trained to come up and touch my hand with his nose (which requires standing on his back legs), when he is asked to “check in” - again, avoids having to crouch over to get him.

I don’t have a back problem, but I don’t like bending over for a small dog all of the time. This has been a simple solution.

[Canaqua]

I wish I knew what my Border Collie mix was mixed with (DNA test said Italian Greyhound, Min Pin and Boxer, but I don’t believe it, as she is 70lbs!). She is Border Collieish in that she looks like one, and is smart, easily trainable and athletic. Tons of energy outdoors, but she is a TOTAL couch potato in the house. She lies around all the time, snuggles with you whenever you sit for a few minutes, but otherwise lies on her dog bed or the couch and sleeps the day away. Until we leave to go for a hike or play outside, then it is go, go, go. She’s good for 8-9 hours in the house during the day as long as she gets exercise in the am and pm (quick walk in the am, longer and more strenous in the pm). I can actually skip a day of exercise if I’m sick or super busy and she doesn’t have a meltdown. More than two days skipped, though, and she becomes obnoxious.

[Arrows_Endure]

Ok, what you really want is an Australian Cattle Dog.
40#'s, easy grooming (but does shed), smart, Velcro dogs. They come in everything from super intelligent pet who is happy with an active life (like you’d give him) to super intelligent, high drive, high energy working dog like the one I own right now. Did I mention intelligent? They aren’t soft, but they do learn quickly and thrive with a positive reinforcement trainer. They are big enough to help around the house if you need service work, don’t have to bend over to put a collar on, and protective enough to make sure you are safe in a scary environment. Mine watch EVERY THING I do, go wherever I go, and never get 10 feet from me unless chasing the ball. My ACD is heading towards being a great obedience dog, is due to be certified in Human Remains Detection next month (he’s 1.5 years old!!!), and would love agility if I had time to do that too.

Check out the ACD’s. My Loki (aka Wierdo) is a red, but the blues are pretty too.

[cowboymom]

I thought about a Kelpie too?

[Where_sMyWhite]

[QUOTE=bdj;7451844]
OP, I think if you really want to make AKC’s Agility Invitationals sooner rather than later, you should take a look at the final eligibility list for Nationals:
http://images.akc.org/pdf/events/agility/national_agility_championship/2014/Eligible_List.pdf
and see what breeds have smaller numbers, and think about which of them suits you.[/QUOTE]

Slightly off track (since I just got a new dog to “play” with; hoping for agility, rally, earth dog, nose work…) with looking for a dog, but…

Invitationals is not on my interest list but I did look; Border Terriers did have a few (after many pages of Border Collies ) which I thought was cool.

Even a Bouvier (love my Bouvs but not the most bid-able breed).

I am currently in a wheel chair, transitioning to a walker and hope continue on to cane and nothing.

Picked the BT because they are on the small size and supposed to be one of the more mellow of the terriers.

I love Kirby. He will play with his toys by himself and when he’s ready for a nap, he reaches up so I can pick him up and put him in my lap where he falls asleep.

I will have some challenges early on with removing/clipping on the leash and getting around an agility ring but we have some basic obedience re-enforcement for both of us first.

So far, I am more than happy with my choice of breed.

I sent email to a few breeders as I also was not looking for a pup. Found a breeder than was downsizing and had an almost 2 year old to place. He’s now asleep in my lap

[Copilot]

I am going to recommend a Lurcher. They are a cross between a sighthound (anything from Greyhound, Whippet, Deerhound, etc.) with one of the “smart” breeds. They come in all sizes, coats, and make the perfect pet/agility dog. I have a Whippet x Boarder-Collie/Greyhound and she is amazing. You will get the apartment dog couch potato that is ready to please you in any way it possibly can.

I came across this group:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/329757577168024/

I can also provide you with a breeder who can either provide you with the perfect dog or put you in the right direction.

[RHdobes563]

[QUOTE=scruffy the cat;7451862]
He also offered this up on yesterday’s walk. https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1604972_10203172034358973_644292787_n.jpg[/QUOTE]

SO cute!

I’m also thinking a 35 lb. Belgian Tervuren is smallish–I would think 50-60 lbs. more normal. But maybe the hair makes me think they’re heavier than they are.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Bicoastal;7451714]
I wish I could respond to every post, but then I might be a wet blanket to my own thread!

I enjoy 10mins of brushing 1x or 2x/week, light clipping, bimonthly baths. I haven’t got used to petting Poos; the coat texture is so different.

While I was walking last night, I pondered “How do I get a Standard to safely leap onto a grooming table in my living room? It’d need a ramp. I’d have to lift the ramp! Or a low table and then I’d be bending.”

I’ve encountered 6. 5 are goofy, playful, and degrees of scatter-brained. Their owners are terrified of losing control :no:. I now enjoy a dog whose eyes are riveted to me at every waking moment, and I have yet to see that concentration from a Poodle. Maybe it is the training on the ones I know.

I’ve read on a grooming forum that comp groomers like ?Mylan? sized Poos…tall mini/small standard. I’d like a taller dog but weight is definitely a criteria, for emergencies. I’m surprised by how light some tall dogs are -like a 35# Terv.

As a single woman who travels alone to seedy trial hotels with dogs that attract “SQUEEEEE KYOOOT PUPPY!” I would appreciate a dog that commands a space bubble. Not a requirement, a consideration. Maybe a Black would do the trick.[/QUOTE]

Grooming dogs like poodles will kill your back if it is fine, would not consider that with a bad back!
You can get someone else to groom them.
But you still have to keep them neat between trims.
Our obedience toy poodle I groomed completely every Sunday, as we had Monday classes.
You do want them to look good.

Tervs here are rather large and they stand there because they as so shy.
They seem to be only forward when working, then they are stars.
They take much socializing and are worrywarts when not doing anything.

The ones our club member had she spent all the time asking us to help socialize them, for months on end.

[Hannahsmom]

Where’s My White, if you are hoping to make the Invitationals with a Border Terrier get ready to trial every weekend and Q. ThE breed is very competitive.

[Where_sMyWhite]

Hannahsmom, no, no, no Invitational for me. I don’t even know if I want to pursue MACH… Mostly just have fun with a dog that enjoys this kind of play.

[MustangSavvy]

[QUOTE=Marshfield;7451433]
This isn’t true in many parts of the country. In much of New England, the shelter dogs consist largely of southern imports. if you want something other than a pit/pit mix, lab mix, or hound mix, you’re pretty much SOL around here. One of my clients just bought a mixed breed puppy from the local pet store because after looking for six months she couldn’t find a small dog to adopt.

AKC has allowed mixed breeds in Agility, ecetera for awhile. Despite this, the majority of folks (at leas in my area) have purpose bred competition partners who were picked as babies for showing certain traits. Tempi showed these things at five weeks of age and has been in regular training since nine weeks of age.[/QUOTE]

As I work in a animal shelter, I feel fairly certain that I know what I am talking about. Oh, that is good let your friend support puppy mills. -sigh-

[witherbee]

[QUOTE=MustangSavvy;7452523]
As I work in a animal shelter, I feel fairly certain that I know what I am talking about. Oh, that is good let your friend support puppy mills. -sigh-[/QUOTE]
When I was in New ENgland, I contacted the breed rescue for collies and within a week they had notified me of 2 near me at different animal control facilities. I was going ot take both of them, but the male was not available when I got there. Ended up with the female (on her last day at AC!) and she was about 1 year old. Beautiful dog was our Delilah!

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i245/wtryan/Memorial%20page/001.jpg

Good luck OP, and I like the idea that someone mentioned to go to a trial or a show where there are Tervs and meet the folks in person. I had looked into them as well, but my understanding was that they are big dogs and might be a bit more challenging to socialize than I wanted.

[Bicoastal]

[QUOTE=scruffy the cat;7451862]

Have you looked at smooth collies? I know I’ve asked you 3x and you can’t respond to every post, but they do fit all your criteria and maybe even a little better- they are just a bit less drivey/high energy than tervs (I am generalizing, of course) but still have fabulous focus and can be great sports partners.[/QUOTE]
I’ve only met one in person. How much do they weigh? I’d like to stay under 45#. I thought they had several health problems, eyes being the big one. Why do the eyes have to be soooo tiny?

@Appsolute;7452004

Previously, I had always had lager dogs, and I am not used to all of the bending over for a “small dog”.

I have modifications around my home. I REALLY want my Pap to jump into my arms, and he REALLLLLY doesn’t want to be held. I have to lure him to put his paws on me. I have to lure him to come into my space. He is exceedingly polite & soft. He is also scared of being squished!

@Arrows Endure;7452110

Ok, what you really want is an Australian Cattle Dog.

Fantastic size and working drive. I enjoy watching them on course. I thought they were heavy for their height but maybe I’m wrong. My biggest concern with ACDs is temperament. I’ve heard horror stories of them being hard and dog & possession/property aggressive.

[Bicoastal]

[QUOTE=Copilot;7452150]
I am going to recommend a Lurcher.[/QUOTE]

The lurchers are neat! They seem very popular in the UK and I have found very little info here in the States so thank you for the link. The long-haired whippets are pretty cool.

If I go with a mixed breed, I’ll adopt. I’d prefer a purebred I can ILP.

[Bicoastal]

[QUOTE=bdj;7451844]
but I’ve got a number of friends who are repeat “Invitees” - and they work hard for it. Trial every single weekend kind of hard. I’ve got a dog who (for my breed) is probably Invitational material, but the reality for me is that I can’t afford to train, travel and trial enough to do make it likely…our goal was to qualify for Nationals - which is a little bit easier, and for someone like me, more realistic [/QUOTE]

Honestly, I didn’t realize Invitationals was harder than Nationals.

I have several friends attending this multi-sport national championship event in March. They do not trial every weekend, not at all. I’m driving up with friends for one day. I’m looking forward to watching a wide variety of breeds -and shopping :D. That is the great thing about AKC events, all kinds of weird breeds! If I saw a Groen or PBGV on the street, I would assume it was a mix. :lol:

[Bluey]

ACDs don’t have a temperament problem, it is in the breed description that they be as they are.

Yes, aggression as part of being possessive and protective is a known trait of the breed.

A fellow that delivers fuel to farms around here told me he can handle any dog fine and makes friends with most.
The ACDs, many tend to be “different” and they scare him.
They won’t interact with him but as prey.:eek:

One of our best trainers in our dog club has had several and they have tended to be difficult, one so much, we went to a special two day aggression dog seminar for professionals by Pat Mc Connell as a demo dog:

http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/

There are some wonderful ACDs too, but yes, you do find more than their share of problem dogs when used for obedience or agility.
I wonder if as dogs, they have a larger personal bubble than most other dogs do and that stresses them when in such close quarters with so many other dogs and humans.

By the way, they are about my favorite breed, but I am extremely allergic to them, or I that is what I would have.
I almost ended up in the hospital when some friends with ACDs came by.

They are also very strong dogs and heavier than they look, maybe not good for someone with a bad back.

[Marshfield]

[QUOTE=MustangSavvy;7452523]
As I work in a animal shelter, I feel fairly certain that I know what I am talking about. Oh, that is good let your friend support puppy mills. -sigh-[/QUOTE]

And I work for a hospital that is a site for the quarantine of animals coming into New Hampshire and I see the dogs being brought in to area by the tractor trailer load. So I TOO know what I’m talking about. I do the health certificate exams on these dogs. And I would NEVER send a friend to or support a puppy mill. This is a NEW veterinary client who went to the local pet store after being unable to find what she wanted in the shelters. I referred her to various other rescues in the area after she stopped in to see if I knew anybody looking to place a small dog. I checked out the local shelters after her visit and there was nothing that met her criteria of a young (under 5) small dog.

How dare you imply that I would let a friend support a puppy mill? I know countless reputable breeders I could have referred her to if she hadn’t told me she was looking for a rescue Clearly you had trouble comprehending what I wrote. And since I personally touch anywhere from 20 to 40 dogs that have come up from the south on any given week to do their exams, I do know what is in our area. I regularly see purebred Great Pyrenese and some chihuahuas coming through the rescue pipeline but that’s about it. So what you see in the shelter you work at is NOT what is seen everywhere.

[scruffy_the_cat]

[QUOTE=Bicoastal;7452683]
I’ve only met one in person. How much do they weigh? I’d like to stay under 45#. I thought they had several health problems, eyes being the big one. Why do the eyes have to be soooo tiny?

I have modifications around my home. I REALLY want my Pap to jump into my arms, and he REALLLLLY doesn’t want to be held. I have to lure him to put his paws on me. I have to lure him to come into my space. He is exceedingly polite & soft. He is also scared of being squished!

Fantastic size and working drive. I enjoy watching them on course. I thought they were heavy for their height but maybe I’m wrong. My biggest concern with ACDs is temperament. I’ve heard horror stories of them being hard and dog & possession/property aggressive.[/QUOTE]

Collies currently have one of the shortest list of common health problems of any purebred breed. Breeders have worked very hard to eradicate some of the big issues that cropped up with the Lassie craze 40 years ago. Some dogs have eyes which are too small but they see just fine- a good dog has a proportionate eye, not one that is too small. It’s inset to the side of their head so they can have very good peripheral vision so sometimes straight on it looks smaller than dogs with too-big eyes. In terms of actual vision issues, there is now a genetic test for PRA so you don’t have to worry about that any more and all well-bred collies have an eye exam before leaving the breeder to see what state their eyes are in. Many dogs have extremely minor structural eye issues that do not affect their vision whatsoever. I would say that if you see collies with way too small eyes, you are not seeing a well bred dog.

Hips and elbows are not really problem in our breed (I believe they can be with Tervs). Avg. lifespan is about 12 with lots going to 15 or so.

But the thing that collies have is the temperament. They are less nutso than Tervs. Girls can be small and light. 45# isn’t unreasonable. They have great focus and attention- there can be a girl in heat right next to me and if I ask for heel- I get it. Collies have drive but typically are not ultra drivey unless you select from ultra-performance lines. There are some collies who rival BCs in their speed on the agility course. Collies are typically fastidious in their self care and are a very clean and unsmelly breed. They typically have talent in many different venues- they can be agility dogs or therapy dogs, they can be stability dogs or tracking dogs, they can do well in obedience and agility and herding and around kids and around the farm. They have some protective instincts to guard their flock but aren’t over the top. An aggressive collie is rare. They house train extremely easily and are extremely biddable. You keep saying you do not want a high-drive/high-intensity dog and worry about aggression but then admire high-drive/high-intensity/dogs with known issues with, uh, assertiveness- collies have the qualities you want, just toned down.

I absolutely vote for going to a major dog trial and watching the competitors and then talking to their owners or meeting breeders. I think you really can’t make a decision about what you want having met one or two representatives of any breed in a class or around town.

[bdj]

[QUOTE=Bicoastal;7452698]
Honestly, I didn’t realize Invitationals was harder than Nationals.

I have several friends attending this multi-sport national championship event in March. They do not trial every weekend, not at all. I’m driving up with friends for one day. I’m looking forward to watching a wide variety of breeds -and shopping :D. That is the great thing about AKC events, all kinds of weird breeds! If I saw a Groen or PBGV on the street, I would assume it was a mix. :lol:[/QUOTE]

Yep, that’s Nationals and I’ll be there with two dogs - one doing agility, one doing Rally.
Caveat - all that follows is based on Agility and Rally - the Obedience National Championship criteria is a little different, and can be found here: http://www.akc.org/events/obedience/national_obedience_championship/2014/criteria.cfm
For Agility and Rally, qualifying for Nationals is “easy” - for agility, (this year, at least) you needed 400 MACH points, 4 double Qs and a total of 20 Qs out of Masters Standard and Jumpers (the doubles did count towards your 20 total). For Rally, 3 scores of 90 points or better and the title achieved during the qualification period. (RAE is a little more complicated, but the same general idea.) Qualifying period ran 12/1/12 to 11/30/13 for both.
I say that it’s “easy” because basically, you meet the requirements, and you’re in (assuming you got your entries in on time - Agility was unlimited entry, but Rally was pretty limited).

Invitationals is different - only the top 5 of each breed get invited - doesn’t matter how well you and your dog do personally, what matters is how well you do compared to others of your breed. If you’ve got a popular breed for agility, you have to be VERY good to make that top 5 - there are an awful lot of Pemmies and Border Collies and Shelties and Paps out there, and to be one of the top 5 and hold that spot means lots of trialing. If however, you’ve got the only Laekenois or one of the only two Beaucerons that are out there running at the Master’s level, then yep, it is easier to get in. But if you’ve got one of 500+ Border Collies? Not so much.

To my mind, qualifying for Nationals is an achievement - it’s something that you can work towards and accomplish in the absence of pretty much anyone else. You get your Qs, you get your points - you’re in. Invitationals is an honor, but what you do is all relative to what other folks are out there doing, so you have less “control” over whether you achieve that goal or not. I’m not sure I’m conveying this very clearly, but it is totally clear in my head!

And like I said, this only goes for Agility (and Rally) - I know that Obedience Nationals is more like an Invitational than the other two sports, but that’s about the extent of my OB knowledge. If your goal is a run at Obedience Nationals, more power to you! I have neither the love nor the patience for it.

[LauraKY]

[QUOTE=witherbee;7452650]
When I was in New ENgland, I contacted the breed rescue for collies and within a week they had notified me of 2 near me at different animal control facilities. I was going ot take both of them, but the male was not available when I got there. Ended up with the female (on her last day at AC!) and she was about 1 year old. Beautiful dog was our Delilah!

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i245/wtryan/Memorial%20page/001.jpg

Good luck OP, and I like the idea that someone mentioned to go to a trial or a show where there are Tervs and meet the folks in person. I had looked into them as well, but my understanding was that they are big dogs and might be a bit more challenging to socialize than I wanted.[/QUOTE]

The breed rescues are pretty proactive. A lot of times they have the dog pulled before anyone knows they are there.