OP have you thought about the Standard Poodle suggestion? Or a Porti? Both good breeds coat wise and size wise and both breeds have successful MACH and UD dogs. You may need to find some water for them to swim but super dogs. And don’t seem as verbal as some of the herding breeds.
And my MACH dog is not really that fast. She is consistent enough to QQ And is reasonably under time so takes a bit of entry fees to get the points! Lazy Palomino Hunter is right.
I’m so confused I think I’ll sign out. I got caught somewhere between OP not wanting to run a routine breed dog like an Aussie or BC and what breed dog it takes to win at those levels. All I have left is lie like a rug on your “can I have a puppy please” applications! :lol:
If you do not want high energy/high drive, even a wash out Turv is going to be A LOT of dog. If your back acts up bending over to treat a dog during training, take into consideration the impact of tugging with a 60 lb dog who is slamming at the end of a tug as hard as possible. I was once laid out for two days after tugging with a 60 lb aussie who tweaked my back with some vigorous head shaking.
A UD/MACH dog needs to be smart, driven, responsive, and obedient. With time, energy, and good training, most dogs have potential to eventually reach one or the other. It all boils down to how competitive you want to be with your dog.
Are you content trailing for 5 years to MACH and having a slow but ultra consistent dog? Are you okay having a dog that reaches UD but isn’t a class winner? If so, many people have success with rescues or former show dogs that have a good work ethic.
If you want to be a top contender it is going to be challenging because finding that intense personality that also meshes with apartment and full time working lifestyle doesn’t usually go hand in hand. If you want to have an all around dog that also enjoys working, it will open up your options significantly IMO.
other vote for a big poodle. smart driven athletic- even my shelter mini learns new behaviors in a day.
OP, I’ve seen standard poodles recommended several times, but I don’t think you haven’t addressed them at all. I think they’d be an ideal dog for what you’re looking for. Good sized, focused, loving, driven to please. Is there a reason you don’t like standard poodles?
StG
[QUOTE=StGermain;7450978]
OP, I’ve seen standard poodles recommended several times, but I don’t think you haven’t addressed them at all. I think they’d be an ideal dog for what you’re looking for. Good sized, focused, loving, driven to please. Is there a reason you don’t like standard poodles?
StG[/QUOTE]
Poodles in any size are an acquired taste.
You either love them or they leave you cold.
I think that is because they really just don’t seem like what we think a dog is, but look more like it’s own different species.
The hair also is not quite what you think a dog coat ought to be, plus don’t disregard the need for beauty treatments for that hair.
Grandma always had some around and at one time I was grooming four.
They are not so easy to keep looking spiffy all the time, especially as farm dogs, everything outdoors getting and hanging onto their hair, even kept shaved down as much as you can.
Poodles are not for everyone, but yes, they are awesome dogs, if you like poodles.
Adopt! There are hundreds of purebred dogs that fit you criteria sitting in shelters.
[QUOTE=Bluey;7451081]
Poodles in any size are an acquired taste.
You either love them or they leave you cold.
I think that is because they really just don’t seem like what we think a dog is, but look more like it’s own different species.
The hair also is not quite what you think a dog coat ought to be, plus don’t disregard the need for beauty treatments for that hair.
Grandma always had some around and at one time I was grooming four.
They are not so easy to keep looking spiffy all the time, especially as farm dogs, everything outdoors getting and hanging onto their hair, even kept shaved down as much as you can.
Poodles are not for everyone, but yes, they are awesome dogs, if you like poodles.[/QUOTE]
The last breed I wanted was a poodle. When I co-worker was planning to get a dog, I tried to get her to get a Doberman, because I knew it wasn’t going to work out. But our CFO had standard poodles, so she had to have one, too.
I went with her to the breeder to pick the puppy up at lunchtime. She was 4 months old, and had been returned by her previous home for being a puppy. What a sweet dog! We took her back to the office, where she lay in the co-worker’s cubicle all afternoon, sleeping and greeting visitors.
I followed c-w home and got her set up with a crate (mine), bowls and toys. The next morning, c-w called me. “The dog has to go! She’s following me everywhere!” I explained that the dog lost everything she knew in her live, and c-w was all she had now. Of course she was following her! But that couldn’t be tolerated. At least c-w realized that it wasn’t for her, rather than crating the puppy constantly and throwing some food in. Back she went to the breeder.
The CFO called the breeder a couple times trying to buy the dog, but the breeder said no, she’d flunked out of two homes, the breeder would keep her. Finally, after a couple weeks I couldn’t stand it any more and called the breeder. She said, “what took you so long? I’ve been waiting for you to call.” and gave me the pup. That was 11 years ago, and Maggie has made me a convert. She’s a farm dog - I zip her down with the horse clippers a few times a year. She’s enthusiastic and funny and loving. She’s not loud, but she’s watchful. She’s an all-around wonderful dog.
Still, I understand that poodles aren’t for everyone. All I wanted was for the OP to acknowledge that she’d seen and considered the standard poodle. I’m not trying to press one on her - a dog has to be the right match.
StG
[QUOTE=MustangSavvy;7451182]
Adopt! There are hundreds of purebred dogs that fit you criteria sitting in shelters.[/QUOTE]
This isn’t true in many parts of the country. In much of New England, the shelter dogs consist largely of southern imports. if you want something other than a pit/pit mix, lab mix, or hound mix, you’re pretty much SOL around here. One of my clients just bought a mixed breed puppy from the local pet store because after looking for six months she couldn’t find a small dog to adopt.
AKC has allowed mixed breeds in Agility, ecetera for awhile. Despite this, the majority of folks (at leas in my area) have purpose bred competition partners who were picked as babies for showing certain traits. Tempi showed these things at five weeks of age and has been in regular training since nine weeks of age.
Marshfield, I am also suspecting that many of these ‘southern imports’ are actually puppy mills that have a racket putting dogs on trucks and sending them up north to be “rescued” for $300 a pop. Pretty lucrative for the person on the beginning end of things.
(Coming up to South Portland this weekend for an all-breed obedience trial & specialty- you’re not entered in any of that, are you?)
To the OP, I’m just wondering how you came to be interested in a Terv when you don’t really want a high energy/high drive dog? I’m curious what led you to the breed. Have you met some you liked? Like the look? Like some that you see at trials? We all have our different paths to choosing the right dog for us- curious about yours since what you say you want and what the breed is like are a little disconnected (which doesn’t necessarily mean it is wrong for you, just that maybe words on the Internet don’t always convey exactly what one is trying to convey).
I don’t know much about agility - especially the MACH - so I appreciate the explanations here. I am not sure if a smooth collie would be too slow - I guess it would depend on the collie. I just got one of a set of brothers from a rescue - the higher energy, bolder fellow is still looking for a home and he is really sweet and intelligent. The decription is actually backwards - I got the quieter of the 2 collies which is what I wanted.
Here is the available fellow - he is approximately 7 months old and came from Alabama. He is in FL now.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152111162159792.1073741974.151005479791&type=1
https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1/1939473_10152149998134792_861694126_n.jpg
Good luck, and personally I would not get into the back issues until you can speak with someone to explain it over the phone or in person.
[QUOTE=MustangSavvy;7451182]
Adopt! There are hundreds of purebred dogs that fit you criteria sitting in shelters.[/QUOTE]
^THIS!!! Shelters and rescues are full of purebreds. You might find one who already knows commands, and it is a wonderful thing to adopt!
Grooming, mainly
[QUOTE=StGermain;7450978]
OP, I’ve seen standard poodles recommended several times, but I don’t think you haven’t addressed them at all. I think they’d be an ideal dog for what you’re looking for. Good sized, focused, loving, driven to please. Is there a reason you don’t like standard poodles? StG[/QUOTE]
I wish I could respond to every post, but then I might be a wet blanket to my own thread!
I enjoy 10mins of brushing 1x or 2x/week, light clipping, bimonthly baths. I haven’t got used to petting Poos; the coat texture is so different.
While I was walking last night, I pondered “How do I get a Standard to safely leap onto a grooming table in my living room? It’d need a ramp. I’d have to lift the ramp! Or a low table and then I’d be bending.”
I’ve encountered 6. 5 are goofy, playful, and degrees of scatter-brained. Their owners are terrified of losing control :no:. I now enjoy a dog whose eyes are riveted to me at every waking moment, and I have yet to see that concentration from a Poodle. Maybe it is the training on the ones I know.
I’ve read on a grooming forum that comp groomers like ?Mylan? sized Poos…tall mini/small standard. I’d like a taller dog but weight is definitely a criteria, for emergencies. I’m surprised by how light some tall dogs are -like a 35# Terv.
As a single woman who travels alone to seedy trial hotels with dogs that attract “SQUEEEEE KYOOOT PUPPY!” I would appreciate a dog that commands a space bubble. Not a requirement, a consideration. Maybe a Black would do the trick.
[QUOTE=scruffy the cat;7451507]
To the OP, I’m just wondering how you came to be interested in a Terv when you don’t really want a high energy/high drive dog? I’m curious what led you to the breed. Have you met some you liked? Like the look? Like some that you see at trials? We all have our different paths to choosing the right dog for us- curious about yours since what you say you want and what the breed is like are a little disconnected (which doesn’t necessarily mean it is wrong for you, just that maybe words on the Internet don’t always convey exactly what one is trying to convey).[/QUOTE]
The ones I’ve met in person have been calmer than 90% of BCs and Shelties. They stand with a look of disdain watching the herding breeds spin and yap :lol: I stumbled upon that first kennel that intentionally breeds small. Then I met a 35#, 17mo bitch and thought, “Hey maybe this IS a candidate.”
I love their desire to work, problem solve, please; not frail, fairly healthy, seem to take to sports with ease physically & mentally; visual deterrent, moderate coat, there aren’t a ton of them and it seems the breeders are very supportive of their owners.
Maybe this is repetitive: I do not want a high drive & high energy dog. I do not want a puppy. I believe there are moderate energy level Belgians. That is probably a show kennel and that’s ok. I’m now open to all options, any breed.
Maybe, when the time is right, the right dog will stumble into my lap. This is quite possible when the dog community knows you have a vacancy, just like in the horse community! That way of doing it seems impulsive and, of course, unpredictable. A dog that can perform a service task, infrequently embarrass me in OB :lol:, and keep the jumps up in Ag is a combination I fear will be hard to find. I hope I’m wrong!!
Hang in there, cowboymom!
[QUOTE=cowboymom;7450412]
I’m so confused I think I’ll sign out. I got caught somewhere between OP not wanting to run a routine breed dog like an Aussie or BC and what breed dog it takes to win at those levels. All I have left is lie like a rug on your “can I have a puppy please” applications! :lol:[/QUOTE]
Am I being impossible? 
Those routine breeds like an agility/working-bred BC or Aussie I assume would not be great for apt life, on top of competition being fierce and less community support. There is this whole “dark side” judgment that I do not want.
I am not seeking a dog to win at those levels; I want one who can play there. Am I splitting words? I need to know if I’m describing a unicorn or Black Stallion for a 9yo up-downer.
I am seeking a dog who can do those sports with ease, is tall enough I can reach its collar, not heavy, and has an “off” switch in the house (apt).
I promise I will not lie about my lifestyle, schedule, and goals. I thank those two kennels for their honesty as both the dog AND I would be unhappy and frustrated.
[QUOTE=Bicoastal;7449840]
Shelties, BCs, and Goldens are very popular in OB and Ag. That also means you have to trial & Q more to make it to Nat’ls and Invit’ls.
I am open to all ideas and a reality check. I want a purebred. I’m dreaming of Invitationals once in my life and with my degenerative disc disease, the clock is ticking.:([/QUOTE]
OP, I think if you really want to make AKC’s Agility Invitationals sooner rather than later, you should take a look at the final eligibility list for Nationals:
http://images.akc.org/pdf/events/agility/national_agility_championship/2014/Eligible_List.pdf
and see what breeds have smaller numbers, and think about which of them suits you. I’m not trying to say that you couldn’t do it right off the bat with whichever dog you choose, since I don’t know you from Adam, but I’ve got a number of friends who are repeat “Invitees” - and they work hard for it. Trial every single weekend kind of hard. I’ve got a dog who (for my breed) is probably Invitational material, but the reality for me is that I can’t afford to train, travel and trial enough to do make it likely. It would be awesome, but I have to be realistic about it, so last year, our goal was to qualify for Nationals - which is a little bit easier, and for someone like me, more realistic - it’s about how my dog and I did, regardless of how anyone else did. (We made it, for the record.) To qualify for Invitationals, it’s not just how good you and your dog are, it’s about how you are in relation to a bunch of other folks. Sure, you can stack the deck in your favor by getting a non-typical breed, but that’s not my thing.
Sorry I’m not much help with breed suggestions. When I read your first post, I thought Golden or Standard Poodle, since I know some wonderful ones of each breed, that have been very successful in agility and obedience, but the Invitationals thing would be a tough road in agility, at least. (For Poodles, especially, since the Poodles are grouped as one breed, regardless of size.) Can’t speak to Tervs, since I’ve only really known a few Mals, but they aren’t terribly common in agility around here.
Thanks for clarifying. The Tervs I know are not 35#, in fact, one is probably 80 # and a huge goofball. I know quite a few as I do obedience and herding with their owners and show confo at the same shows as some of them too.
Have you looked at smooth collies? I know I’ve asked you 3x and you can’t respond to every post, but they do fit all your criteria and maybe even a little better- they are just a bit less drivey/high energy than tervs (I am generalizing, of course) but still have fabulous focus and can be great sports partners.
For example: I got it in my head to enter a rally trial tomorrow. We have not taken a class or really ever done anything with the signs even though I did just put a BN on him. So yesterday I got an app and he learned all the Rally Novice exercises in an afternoon. Yes, since we have the basic obedience it was not hard, but it gives you an idea of biddability.
He also offered this up on yesterday’s walk. Because we are active in the show ring, herding, and obedience, I haven’t started agility, but I think maybe he might like it. His mother, a Westminster BOV winner, has agility and herding titles: https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1604972_10203172034358973_644292787_n.jpg
I am active in a community of performance collies, so I know they can be very successful in the agility ring (in fact, one of my herding training partners is on that eligibility list for Nationals). They also are used very often as service dogs.
I think I don’t know enough about what breeds you could be considering; agility is something I don’t know a lot about. It is fun to look through and consider the different breeds and watch a few clips-I’ve learned a fair amount through this thread. :yes:
Lying is bad and I meant it mostly as a joke, but when I first read this thread I thought you should play up your positives, just as others have said here. I think you’re a wonderful dog home with a few requirements that shouldn’t be too tough to fill. I understand wanting a purebred too. Does that mean AKC? My son just got a GSD and saw me looking up your breed of choice and mentioned seeing these when he was doing his research: http://dogbreedinfo.com/bohemianshepherd.htm
If you are set on a Terv, find out where the breeders you are interested in are showing and go there physically. Introduce yourself. Meet the dogs in person. Establish a personal connection with folks in the community. That will a) help confirm whether or not this is the breed for you and b) get you useful contacts who will think of you when the “right” dog comes along.
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